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PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't the 1

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Charter Member · 366 posts

LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-04 AT 02:42 PM (EST)

I hope the warning below has already been shared in this forum. At any rate, I hope that I describe it altogether clearly (the multitude of variations that TS throws at us causes me to easily become confused!).Many paths that you have created yourself for a given route are updated/modified/revised automatically on an ongoing basis by the AE (EEK!!!) when an editing session of yours in the AE meets the following conditions:1-a) Open the AE for a fresh session in that route, or
1-b) Open an activity (afresh) in that route; and2) Create a (new) path; and (lastly)3) Save your AE editing session.The paths being automatically updated on the ongoing basis needn't be associated to the activity where those editing-session conditions have occurred. As far as I've seen, the PDP and track-node (quote-unquote) numeric data are updated (freaky!!), in addition to the versions ("Serial" line) of the paths themselves. I'd like to post a comparison between a couple of versions of a path that I created myself sometime soon for all of you to see.As far as I can tell, the reason this updating happens is because no hard change had been committed to the activity file itself (e.g., any service removed from the traffic pattern, any service inserted to the traffic pattern, etc. {the activity file contains many details of the associated traffic pattern}). It's as though an ongoing path-editor clipboard is created and thereafter maintained just as soon as the conditions have been met. I'm not certain which of your own paths get swept up into this 'clipboard', but it seems to me to be the following ones:
- all paths associated to the activity that had been updated prior to the AE editing session wherein the conditions occurred; and
- any path you create after having met the conditions.An example of how those conditions can be met is when you create a dummy path (say, within a dummy service) for the purpose(s) of testing, save it, and then immediately save your AE editing session to embed the newly-created path into your route right away. Another way could be that you cancelled out of your AE editing session and start a fresh AE session. The latter example is probably the scenario that's more likely to occur.I'm convinced that this happened to the manufacturers too. If you open up the path that has the filename aftstrmtraffic.pat that was packaged into the MSTS1 activity After The Storm found in the route folder USA1, you'll see that it has a Serial value of 28; this proves MS' whim at selling us their wares from the testing/pilot stage of their overall project. If you mimick this very path by creating it from scratch yourself, you can see that it's 'numeric data' vastly differs from those to your own creation.From now on, I'm going to back up paths I create just as soon as I create them. I wouldn't be surprised if many of you were to discover that paths that you edited only once, i.e., created (period!), now have a serial value higher than 1.I stumbled upon this in my quest to solve the mystery surrounding junctionless path points, which I bounced off somebody in the following message:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/1988.html#aftstrmtrafficFeel free if you'd like me to clarify, I could ramble on and on here . . .Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, buttercup, Jan-23-04, 03:36 PM, (1) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, goonybird, Jan-23-04, 04:43 PM, (2) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, goonybird, Jan-24-04, 04:05 PM, (4) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, kevarc, Jun-21-04, 09:29 PM, (7) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, goonybird, Jun-21-04, 06:27 PM, (5) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, kevarc, Jun-21-04, 09:26 PM, (6) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, goonybird, Jun-22-04, 01:22 AM, (10) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, kevarc, Jun-22-04, 08:26 AM, (11) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, goonybird, Jun-22-04, 10:43 AM, (12) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, goonybird, Jan-23-04, 10:17 PM, (3) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, kevarc, Jun-21-04, 09:34 PM, (8) RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t, goonybird, Jun-22-04, 00:49 AM, (9)

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Charter Member · 663 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

Path (pat), service (srv), traffic (trf), consist (con) and trainset (wag and eng) files can be added to or removed from any activity. They are separate from the activity (act) file itself and are only referenced there. Any alterations to these files will occur in all activities that use them.Path, service, traffic and consist files are edited in the ae separately for the actual activity file and any changes made to them are saved even if you do not save changes to the activity file itself.Route riter can be used to check activities to see if a path, service, traffic, consist or trainset file is used by more than one activity.Regards,Eric

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Charter Member · 366 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-04 AT 05:00 PM (EST)

My warning focuses on how a newly-created path file is obscurely linked to an initial editing session. Sorry, but the remainder of the types of files you mention above share no factor -- if any -- to this pitfall.Good grief! you've made me realize that I ought to have shed more light on how and when the further automatic updating occurs. Here goes.Say you've met the conditions and continue to edit and save and edit and save, the subsequent editing sessions to the intial one within this string of edit-and-save-and-edit-and-save editing sessions will not further update the effected/drawn-in path files. The further updates are automatically committed whenever you save a subsequent initial editing session to the session where you had met the conditions (are you following me here? I'm lacking clear terms that can be readily understood here). The nasty part about these subsequent initial editing sessions is that it doesn't matter what change(s) you'd have committed in this type of editing session: the drawn-in paths get updated by the sim, and their data do get altered (big time, in some of them).It's friggin crazy.Cheers,
goonybird
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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Charter Member · 366 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-04 AT 04:05 PM (EST)

>trainset (wag and eng) files can be added to or removed from
>any activity.Minor correction: the wag and eng files are referenced to by the consist file, so these very two types of files don't directly factor into activity files, only into the consist ones.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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Charter Member · 6860 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

Not for loose consists, they are only listed in the AE, you can delete the without any harm to the activity.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.comPITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't the 1 – image 1

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Charter Member · 366 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-04 AT 06:28 PM (EST)

>trainset (wag and eng) files can be added to or removed from
>any activity.Hi Eric,By what I seemed to have stumbled across a day or two ago on my machine, I now feel it's necessary to retract my disagreement (msg #4 to this thread here) to your above-quoted claim. The following response of mine to somebody's posting should serve well enough as to outline why my retraction here now: http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/2160.html#2Cheers,
goonybird

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Charter Member · 6860 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-04 AT 09:31 PM (EST)

Eric, actually the traffic IS listed in the act file as well as the traffic file. Why? Beats the hell out of me.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.comPITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't the 1 – image 2

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Charter Member · 6860 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

I've read those posts and could see no usefull purpose of them. A little bit of planning and playing in the AE will solve most of the problems, without all the time involved in screwing around with the files. All I see is that what you are doing may have an use, but the time and effort involved in it makes it not worthwhile. As I stated about, a little bit of planning can go a long way.Flexability can be done with a little forethought before you start setting up the traffic file. Most times I start with a generic traffic file and them modify to suit the activity. This is a huge timesaver when doing more than one activity for a route. You can pick and choose the services you want and modify them or others to suit the individual activity. You have done it again, this is what the third thing you have tried and found out your ideas and assumptions were wrong. Why do you not complete a process to a successfull conclusion BEFORE you post it.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.comPITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't the 1 – image 3

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Charter Member · 366 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

If folks were readily gaining successful conclusions, then I reckon most of the fora to this message board would be quite bare.I too share your methodology, only I'd go so far as to quantify the extent of my planning, etc., to be far more than how you yourself seem to gauge your own to be.Cheers,
Chris

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Charter Member · 366 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

>when an editing session of
>yours in the AE meets the following conditions:
>
>1-a) Open the AE for a fresh session in that route,
>
>1-b) Open an activity (afresh) in that route; and
>
>2) Create a (new) path; and (lastly)
>
>3) Save your AE editing session. Err, sorry, this was my dumb way of putting it (I was in a hurry):>conditions: I did, in the end, mean to say "round of steps" instead of "conditions". It's safe to interpret all other instances of "conditions" in my prior messages as refering to the condition of this specific editing session (that consists of nothing other than those three steps) being met. Further updatings follow after committing this editing session.Unfortunately, I'm having no luck either uploading my pictures as attachments, or simply having them display in this message.http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ followed by compare_caftstrm__040123.JPG (copy the underlined bit and tack it onto the end of the link that begins this sentence in the Address line to another browser).In proofing another picture for another message of mine, I noticed that I missed highlighting some of its code. When importing a revised screen shot that captured the correct highlightings into my picture, I had trouble overlaying it because the digits had changed. I then returned to the path file to look at its "Serial" line and disovered it had escalated from 1 to 5. Even though I'd been doing a lot of path testing for the other topic prior to my getting around to proofing the picture, I still swore to myself that I did not update that very path file. (My highlighting of the path file involved formatting, no editing, plus I never saved the changes.) Well, that topic has lead me to this one and caused me to do a whole other round of path-editing testing, hence the path file I refer to has been augmented from version 5 to 10, all by itself again. I'm now puzzled that the majority of those digits as changed in version 5 have now reverted to their version-1 values. The link immediately above this paragraph shows versions 1 and 10 of the path file.That path file is my version of the "aftstrmtraffic.pat" path, its filename is "caftstrm.pat" The difference between the two paths is that mine doesn't take the short passing siding "Industry 4" (in default USA1), mine keeps the main (and it works fine in place of this default path in "After The Storm", of which I'd made a copy in addition to the one that I'd made of its traffic pattern). Its filename is "caftstrm.pat". The picture I'd intially been forumulating is the one to the following hyperlink, and it compares three paths: "aftstrmtraffic.pat"; "aftstrm_mimic_aftstrm.pat", which is a facsimile of 'aftstrm.pat' that I created from scratch; and "caftstrm.pat", which I've already described:http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ followed by compare_aftstrmtraffic_paths__040121.JPG (copy the underlined bit and tack it onto the end of the link that begins this sentence in the Address line to another browser).And this picture is to do with this topic: http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/1988.html#aftstrmtrafficAnd, for some reason, my links to the friggin images aren't showing up on my screen, so I've had to format them different . . . and I can't upload the pictures as attachments (maybe the pictures are too broad). Pity, because I can't comment on all the changes, although my highlightings are my attempt to draw your attention to what's going on.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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Charter Member · 6860 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-04 AT 09:34 PM (EST)

What is you point with this? It is a well documented fact that the route, activity, etc are ALL updated serially. It also has no effect on your other paths. I noticed this a long time ago, and checked it out and compared paths that had a newer time stamp with a copy of the old one I had and there was no difference.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.comPITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't the 1 – image 4

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Charter Member · 366 posts

RE: PITFALL: Path Editor: I hope this warning isn't t

LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-04 AT 00:53 AM (EST)

>It
>also has no effect on your other paths.Well, it had with my paths that had been created subsequent to my committing the pitfall sometime before I was going about conducting some other experiment, wherein I stumbled across their having been updated behind the scenes. I discovered their being automatically updated when my experiment caused me to review the date-time-modifcation stamps displayed by my Windows Explorer upon revealing the Paths folder to the route; this observation caused me to set my experiment aside to get some idea as to why they were being updated.Sorry, but that whole business with the pitfall had me really stumped, and so I've it alone until I were to gain some better insight as to the whole interactivity of paths. My sole reason for dredging up this whole thread was to negate my claim that wagon/engine files do not have any direct effect on the activity file, for it seems I was wrong.Although I've not bothered to fully review the data to an activity file from opening one manually, I still don't see how either type of these trainset files directly effect an activity file. Cheers,
goonybird

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