Green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segments

LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-04 AT 10:46 AM (EST)

Does anybody know why a green 'pac man' dot sometimes (if not, always?) appears out of nowhere along a path? These 'pac man' dots are path points, because they do cause a segment break along the whole path. What makes these 'pac man' dots extraordinary is that they don't sit atop either a switch or a crossing which is why I mention that they appear out of nowhere.The View pull-down menu-bar selection Path Points must be activated to observe this type of path point I'm querying.Mysterious.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, kevarc, Jan-14-04, 10:53 AM, (1) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-14-04, 11:27 AM, (2) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, GreaseMonkey607, Jan-19-04, 02:29 PM, (3) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, robertreedy, Jan-19-04, 10:45 PM, (4) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-21-04, 02:03 PM, (5) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-21-04, 04:00 PM, (6) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, GaryG, Jan-22-04, 12:34 PM, (7) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-22-04, 02:29 PM, (8) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-23-04, 03:44 PM, (9) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-23-04, 11:21 PM, (10) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-24-04, 04:42 PM, (11) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-24-04, 06:30 PM, (12) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, pwillard, Jan-24-04, 07:35 PM, (13) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-24-04, 11:23 PM, (15) RE: green 'pac man' dots on paths that cause path segme, goonybird, Jan-24-04, 11:19 PM, (14)

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They are usually midpoints of sidings.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
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Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-04 AT 11:40 AM (EST)

Hmm, I too thought as much.But why do they appear? Are they to serve as guides for us to guage whether or not that siding can accommodate the reversal of a train against the length of that train? I ask this because it seems to me that the path editor cannot effectively establish a reversal point if the length of the siding wherein the reversal takes place is not at least twice as long as the length of the train being reversed (somebody please correct me if my claim here regarding lengths is indeed wrong! By the way, I've found a trick that skirts around this length-of-train-being-reversed-upon-siding-must-not-exceed-half-the-length-of-the-siding-where-the-reversal-is-staged business . . . ). By "effectively establish" I mean that the reversal point can indeed be placed, but it doesn't function when driving in that you can never pass it (it being the white reversal arrow seen in the track monitor); it's as though the reversal point (trigger) becomes a simple pick-up item such that it seems to eventually hang onto the tail end of your train forever.If the these mysterious dots serve as indicators, then why do they cause path segments?Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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Right click them and click "take other exit" to change what track to go on (or siding.)

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"Dash 9's Drool and ALCO's rule"

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>But why do they appear? Are they to serve as guides for us
>to guage whether or not that siding can accommodate the
>reversal of a train against the length of that train? I ask >If the these mysterious dots serve as indicators, then
>why do they cause path segments? I think the 'pacman' green dots are as Kevin said above "They are usually midpoints of sidings." However just an idea, but I think I've also figured out that the computations for distance to closest signals (for passing tracks) must originate from this point to determine which train takes the siding and which takes the main. I've never noticed them on any track where 'passing points' would not work, so maybe it is indicating what sidings can actually be used as passing sidings.I don't think it has anything to do with a reversal of direction, but could be wrong. btw, just in case you didn't know, you can reverse a train in and out of a siding even if it is longer than the siding you're working with. The reverse points merely need to 'straddle' the switch or switches to be used effectively, if that makes any sense. RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-04 AT 02:06 PM (EST)

>maybe it is indicating what sidings can actually be
>used as passing sidings. I agree whole-heartedly, plus I'd say that that is the only condition/layout/configuration where/when it appears.Now, what do you make of the path aftstrmtraffic found to each of the four AIs comprising the traffic pattern to the default activity After The Storm? It signifies a through-running diagram, but for some reason(s) (maybe 27 of them so it seems, because this path came packaged with a serial value of 28) it leaves the main track for the short passing siding Industrial 4. What puzzles me is that whoever the editor was seems to have been very lucky at wiping out that pac-man dot, which as far as its category goes seems to me to be a junctionless path point/node, as you've alluded to in your message above. I've tried micking this path. I got it pretty close but not dead-on, for when I manually open up and compare my mimicking path with the default/packaged one, our entries don't match (my start and end points do though!)I don't know if this is aimless of me to pursue, but I've got a nagging feeling now that maybe it's possible to manually edit in such junctionless path points (pac man dots). I can't help but think that the manufacturers of this game did attempt to build some priority mechanism/scheme into the game, and I've a hunch they tried doing it by way of paths as opposed to the (adopted, remember) signalling of any given route.(Bla bla bla bla -- this is so exhausting. I'll be back.)
>The
>reverse points merely need to 'straddle' the switch or
>switches to be used effectively, if that makes any sense. Not right now, it doesn't, I'll have to try out your tip -- thank you!Cheer
>
>
>RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-04 AT 04:00 PM (EST)

>the default activity
>After The StormSorry, I forgot to indicate the default route, being Northeast Corridor (USA1).Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-04 AT 12:35 PM (EST)

Hi gooneybirdCheck out the following link, it has some gathered info about trains straddling path segments when using reverse points.http://www.railpage.org.au/steam4me/trainsim/tutorials/AI_otake.htmlGaryG

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Thank you for that link, Gary G, it'll most definitely be worth my while. I'll check out the rest of that website too.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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I read the tutorial. It's a little confusing. One thing that jumped out at me was its blurb on creating dummy services, which I posted a warning about on this bulletin board earlier today:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/1999.htmlCheers again,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-04 AT 11:33 PM (EST)

Well, now I don't know what to make of all this, because in my quest to get some clue on the function(s?) of what I now call junctionless path points (the green pac man dots) I've now discovered this problem (groan):http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/1999.htmlI did, however, make a picture concerning the "aftstrmtraffic.pat" file and this thread:http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ followed by compare_aftstrmtraffic_paths__040121.JPG (copy the underlined bit and tack it onto the end of the link that begins this sentence in the Address line to another browser, because I'm having a terrible time trying to either upload my picture as an attachment or have it display on the screen)."aftstrm_mimic_aftstrm" is my version of "aftstrmtraffic" that I created from scratch myself. The prime difference between "caftstrm", which I also created myself, and the prior-mentioned pair of paths is that each of the pair takes the short passing siding "Industry 4" while "caftstrm" keeps the main. "aftstrm" must have had its junctionless path point fully removed by way of marking the point as broken and then deleting it, for, like my version "aftstrm_mimic_aftstrm", it misses one line each in the PDP and track-node parameters.By the way, "caftstrm" does work fine in place of "aftstrm"; I'd made copies of the activity file and its associated traffic pattern, and made copies of its four traffic services, player service and player path all from scratch. So, was it the human editor that devised the path like this for some mysterious reason, or was it the path editor's pitfall going about at compromising the integrity of the data to that default traffic path file prior to its commercial launch? I haven't a clue because I've no familiarity with path files manually-wise.Because of my not knowing what to make about the path editor's pitfall, I don't know right now how to tackle the junctionless path point.

Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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Can anybody tell me what on earth is going on?I've now substituted the common path "catstrm.pat" that my four AIs used in my facsimile of "After The Storm" with my mimicking path "aftstrm_mimic_aftstrm.pat" (it mimicks the default "atstrmtraffic.pat"). This mimicking path file works fine when I play the activity, yet its PDP and track-note (quote-unquote) are vastly different to those to the default path file.Interestingly, using this mimicking path file in place of the default path file causes all the same outcomes in my facsimile of "After The Storm" as things happen in the default activity. I am held up by the third AI at the interlocking approximately two miles north of the passing siding Industry 4 (my signal is promoted from STOP to CLEAR once this third AI has fully passed the interlocking). However, this isn't the case when I used "catstrm.pat" as the common path to the four AIs. The third AI must wait for me before it is thrown a permissive signal aspect.To back up a little, it isn't possible to remove the juntionless path point from the main passing siding; it can only be removed from the diverging leg of a passing siding. This means to say that the junctionless path point in the passing siding (i.e., the main leg) of "caftstrm.pat" cannot be eliminated.So, I make the third train wait at the afore-mentioned interlocking when it uses "caftstrm.pat" because it has an extra path point/track node positioned before the interlocking that it must overcome, whereas I must wait for this very train instead when it uses either "aftstrmtraffic.pat" nor "aftstrm_mimic_aftstrm.pat" becuase neither of these paths contains that (junctionless, remember) path point, which would have to be overcome.I want to challenge the consesus(?) out here (only because of my nagging hunch!), but it's now dawning on me that to soundly do so, I must mimic "aftstrmtraffic.pat" with a path of my own wherein I don't remove its juntionless path point from Industry 4 to see if it causes the same outcome as when I set the four AIs to use "catstrm.pat"I'll be back!Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-04 AT 06:48 PM (EST)

Okay, my hunch was right. But where can we go with this?!I made my own copy of "aftstrmtraffic.pat" without removing the junctionless path point from Industry 4. I've named this latest file path I've created "caftstrm_w_jpp_aftstrm.pat". I substituted each of the four AIs and, sure enough, I was held up by the third AI at the same interlocking I describe in my previous message to this one. I'd like to make a picture of all the data to this latest path I've created, and post for you to compare against the data to the default path and to the created paths I've been mentioning; I reckon I'll be able to in just a few days' time.This fudging around with junctionless path points in a path file might be promising in that maybe it's possible to induce one/some to thwart the projection of a path to any train from beaming forward.I tried the double-reverse point method a few months ago, but I couldn't get it to work, maybe because of some meddlesome path point (junctionless or not) positioned in between my start point and the location of the double-reverse points I'd inserted.Oh! By the way, I've been misquoting my created path file filename 'aftstrm_mimic_aftstrm.pat' in this forum the past few days. I muddled its filename up with another to one of my picture files I'd created. Sorry. I meant to write "caftstrm_mimic_aftstrm.pat".Blech.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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Are you still sane? Has the route editor eaten your brain and got you talking to yourself? You wouldn't be the first.

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No, just back to feeling deflated. I keep finding the AE more puzzling than the RE.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-04 AT 11:25 PM (EST)

Err, I take this message back. I've completely muddled myself with my findings.All I've learnt is that the three paths taking the passing siding Industry 4 cause the player in the activity to wait at the interlocking. It's when the path that is set to take the main that the player isn't held up.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

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