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sniper297 (1274 posts)
Jan-05-02, 10:40 PM (EST) "Allstuff package part tres." We managed to fill up another thread that slows even my DSL warp speed modem to a crawl, ain't we a bunch of stinkers? Anybody interested in wading thru the swamps, here's the previous two threads;http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2972&forum=DCForumID6&omm=0http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2987&forum=DCForumID6&omm=0Anybody wants to try the package without hunting thru all that, I'll repost the last zip here;
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c3243ea7062208e.zip
That's not an update, I haven't really made enough progress to do an update yet, so if you already have that zip number, from 1/1/02, this is the same one.I tried Dick's burned building and barbed wire reference, just copied from the last post and pasted it into the copy of All_Stuff.ref in a test route, and it didn't work. I found that all the entries were like this;FileName(JP2BurntBld2.s)
Shadow(none)
Align(none)
Description("Burned 2")
)And I had to make them like the other entries, with spaces between the reference and the opening and closing parenthesies;FileName( JP2BurntBld2.s )
Shadow( none )
Align( none )
Description( "Burned 2" )
)to make them work. Now I'm wondering, Dick, is there something different about the European version of MSTS that makes the unspaced entries work in yours and not mine, or are you just getting sloppy in your old age and didn't test that? (I was born in 1953, so you're even older than I am, you getting senile? I know I'm next!)
Anyway, after adding and fixing the entries in the ref, I placed the three objects with no problems, without using the extended shape files. Going to the sim, I found that the barbed wire fence is no problem in any season, but the two burnt buildings, altho no problem at night, give missing texture for snow. Looking at Japan2, the ace files are in textures, but not in night or snow. Judging by the nature of the buildings themselves, they wouldn't be lit up at night, but apparently the .s files are calling for snow textures, and there ain't any. If you could give us a reader's digest version of this it would be helpful. My understanding is that the .s file does not call for an .sd file if there is only one texture for the object, if the .s file calls for the .sd, the info on the seasonal/snow/night texture ace files is in the .sd file itself. There are no .sd files for these objects (yet, again I haven't installed the ones you made), but instead of getting the missing .sd first, I get the missing \textures\snow\burntwhatever.ace error first. I was thinking about possibly hacking the .s file, but I suppose something like that should have a \snow texture anyway, and since there isn't one it'll have to be made and included in the final package. Personally, I think it's worth the effort, not because I have any kind of pyromania thing, but because it looks like home to me. My neighborhood is the kind where the gangs and druggies are trashing buildings faster than the politicians can replace them, so the more of this stuff I have the more authentic the city scenes look to me.
Be it ever so humble - and boy, is it humble - there's no place like the West Side of Chicago. Gotta put some dozers in that scene to start cleaning up!
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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Allstuff package part tres. akochan Jan-06-02 1 RE: Allstuff package part tres. Motley24Crue2 Jan-06-02 2 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-06-02 3 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-06-02 4 RE: Allstuff package part tres. sniper297 Jan-06-02 5 RE: Allstuff package part tres. Bing Jan-06-02 6 RE: Allstuff package part tres. sniper297 Jan-06-02 7 RE: Allstuff package part tres. Boweavel Jan-06-02 9 RE: Allstuff package part tres. Bing Jan-06-02 17 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-06-02 8 RE: Allstuff package part tres. sniper297 Jan-06-02 10 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-06-02 11 RE: Allstuff package part tres. TOPDOG5184 Jan-06-02 12 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-06-02 14 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-06-02 13 RE: Allstuff package part tres. TOPDOG5184 Jan-06-02 15 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-06-02 16 RE: Allstuff package part tres. sniper297 Jan-06-02 18 RE: Allstuff package part tres. TOPDOG5184 Jan-06-02 19 RE: Allstuff package part tres. TOPDOG5184 Jan-07-02 20 RE: Allstuff package part tres. OkrasaGhia Jan-07-02 21 RE: Allstuff package part tres. sniper297 Jan-07-02 22 RE: Allstuff package part tres. Bing Jan-07-02 23 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-07-02 24 RE: Allstuff package part tres. TOPDOG5184 Jan-07-02 26 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-07-02 27 RE: Allstuff package part tres. blvdbill Jan-07-02 25 RE: Allstuff package part tres. TOPDOG5184 Jan-07-02 28 RE: Allstuff package part tres. dvdhoven Jan-07-02 29 RE: Allstuff package part tres. sniper297 Jan-07-02 30 RE: Allstuff package part tres. Bing Jan-07-02 31 RE: Allstuff package part tres. akochan Jan-07-02 32

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akochan (331 posts)
Jan-06-02, 02:10 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." And here's my answer to all those dirty trackside buildings in Philadelphia... now if only I could figure out how to make it face the right way when going down the tracks and edit the shape to give it a nice wrecking ball on the end of the boom. Hiho, hiho, it's off to work we go...-Andy
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Motley24Crue2 (269 posts)
Jan-06-02, 02:32 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." lol hey i live in Philadelphia, and not all the Trackside Buildings are Dirty, just only Key ones... Such as North Philadelphia, West Philadelphia Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-06-02, 06:17 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 06:48 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 06:46 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 06:44 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 06:24 AM (EST)>to make them work. Now I'm wondering, Dick, is there something
>different about the European version of MSTS that makes the
>unspaced entries work in yours and not mine, or are
>you just getting sloppy in your old age and didn't
>test that? (I was born in 1953, so you're even older than I am, you getting senile? I know I'm next!)
>Anyway, after adding and fixing the entries in the ref, I
>placed the three objects with no problems, without using the
>extended shape files. Going to the sim, I found that
>the barbed wire fence is no problem in any season,
>but the two burnt buildings, altho no problem at night,
>give missing texture for snow.
>Looking at Japan2, the ace files are in textures, but
>not in night or snow. Judging by the nature of the buildings themselves, they wouldn't be lit up at night,
>but apparently the .s files are calling for snow textures,
>and there ain't any. If you could give us a reader's digest version of this it would be helpful. My understanding is that the .s file does not call for an .sd file if there
>is only one texture for the object, if the .s file calls for the .sd, the info on the seasonal/snow/night texture ace files is in the .sd file itself. There are no .sd files for these objects (yet, again I haven't installed the ones you made), but instead of getting the missing .sd first, I get the missing \textures\snow\burntwhatever.ace error first. I was thinking about possibly hacking the .s file, but I suppose something like
>that should have a \snow texture anyway, and since there
>isn't one it'll have to be made and included in the final >package. Personally, I think it's worth the effort,
Hi, not senile. I work with spaced versions in the ref file. I have tested it, otherwise no screenshot, I would say. It is the board that does this. When you copy and paste something like that on the board, the program behind removes the spaces.
For the burned houses, install the .sd files. They are telling MSTS that there are no texture files for snow.
Where do I upload .sd files for? To use, not to throw away!
The .sd file tells if textures are needed for snow, night, etc. that is not the .s file. The .s file only tells which ace files are needed. So install the .s file.
And I installed them with .sd file and didn't got the slightest problem, no missing .ace files.
So conclusion:
- sd files are needed
- no hacking in s files
- no extra ace files for snow neededOne question:
Why not using the .sd files. Why the heck is that for? I don't understand that. I make .sd files and you are not using them.
Why oh why?????????????I have the burned houses installed with .sd file and look at this picture, no problemo in snow:

See also the previous thread, I found out the us1cathedral was not in your ref file. Would be a waste if it was left out.Dick van den Hoven
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dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-06-02, 08:21 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 08:25 AM (EST)Hi,Here comes the next one. Huge building, one object but in fact two buildings in an angle. I doubt if you want to have that on your route. US2LewisHotelIMHO, this is unfinished the roof is way to white.And a correction to my previous post, I meant install the .sd file. Personally I see it as a rule, a shape file always has an accompanying sd (shape data) file.Dick van den Hoven
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sniper297 (1274 posts)
Jan-06-02, 09:19 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Gotcha, Dick. I wasn't gonna throw anything away, I just delayed the install to test how much is actually necessary to include in the package. Now I got a whole new ballgame, I gotta start over again. Fortunately your VBscript should make it go pretty quick. Apparently I'm the one that's senile, the version of ALL_OBJECTS.REF I have been working with is 175 kilobytes, dated 7/27/01. The one you put in one of those zips is dated 8/19/01, and it's 212 kilobytes. I thought the one I had WAS the latest version, turns out it's not. That would explain why there were so many objects in combined.ref that were missing from all objects, I didn't have the latest version, duh! Well, that's OK, that's why we do beta tests. 212 kilobytes is pretty close to the 214 kilobytes of combined.ref, so if there's anything missing from this version I suspect it's not much.
Philly, hey? I was in HS-75 about 20 years ago, and for a while, 79-80 I think, we were based at NAS Willow Grove. The year that Philadelphia swept the whole sports thing, Phillies, Flyers, 76ers, and Eagles all went to the playoffs, I went down to Veteran's Stadium with a bunch of guys from Jersey and Southeast PA to watch the Eagles humiliate my beloved Bears. The only bright spot for us that day was the late great Walter Payton, but unfortunately he couldn't beat the Eagles all by himself.
Well, Hi-Ho Hi-Ho, back to work I go. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Bing (140 posts)
Jan-06-02, 09:55 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Sniper - How 'bout dem Bears!!! (Re learning to be humble: Try being a Lions fan.) I've watched football for about fifty years and don't ever remember a teamn as dominating as the 1985 Bears. The story goes that the Cowboy players had to be persuaded to even take the field for the second half of their game with the Bears, they were beaten that badly. IIRC Mike North of WSCR said that nearly every player on the '85 Bears team was a star - the entire starting team really should have gone to the Pro Bowl.Good luck in the playoffs, I'm cheering for the Bears. As to the Lions - well, there are a couple QB's out there that will look good on draft day, that's all we have to look forward to.Cheers,Bing
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sniper297 (1274 posts)
Jan-06-02, 10:38 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Yeah, do I remember that season, when Sweetness finally got a bunch of teammates that were in his league. I have that 44-0 blowout on videotape, the first time the Cowboys had ever been shut out. I was watching another game that year with my Dad, and the electrical power went out in the middle of the game. I ran down to look at the fusebox, but Dad did something even smarter, grabbed a portable TV with a car cigarette lighter jack, and went outside and plugged it in and set it on the hood of the car. We sat down on a tree stump on the parkway to continue watching, and when "DA Bears" drove in the next touchdown, I was startled by a loud cheer behind me. Everyone on the whole block was standing in a semi-circle behind us watching that little portable TV!
Lions coulda had a perfect record this season, but they had to go and mess it up by winning one game. Has anyone ever gone 0-16? I don't think so, they coulda been the first. I don't really blame them, I do something right occasionally just to break the monotony of always &#^%$#!ing up. Here's some MSTS nostalgia, my first boneheaded blunder;
http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1051&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yes
But that's how we learn, from our mis\*.*takes. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Boweavel (1437 posts)
Jan-06-02, 12:07 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Roflol..Thanks for the Nostalga trip Jim... Just proves MS and Kuju have not a clue...Quote
" Since textures are useless without shape files and many shape files require user-written Shape Description files, the concept of a batch file is useless.I would avoid using the batch file altogether.Jim Steven, MCSE
Sr Microsoft Windows Application Developer "If it wasnt for your Batch file jim.. More than half of todays routes wouldnt exsist.. And im sure many of them wouldnt of even started....Just one more laugh.. "I reported this issue to Product Support as a bug and I think the forthcoming patch will handle the file names.Jim Steven, MCSE
Sr Microsoft Windows Application Developer "Wonder if he got a reply ???Keep up the great work that MS and Kuju should of done Boys..Catchya's Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Bing (140 posts)
Jan-06-02, 03:26 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." He's RUMBLING ... he's STUMBLING ... he could .. go .. all .. the .. way ....nah. Dierdorf said that at the end of the run, Traylor looked like a 747, flaps down coming in for a landing.Someone also said that great teams, the ones that go deep into the playoffs and maybe the Big Enchilada, are the teams that make great plays. Plays that turn games around. Watching Da Bears this season - when Charter Com has sense enough to pipe in their games up here - has been the most fun I've had around pro ball since ... yeah, you guessed it. 1985.BTW, the one loss that year was in Miami, if you remember and could have been avoided if it had not been for the insurmountable ego of Buddy Ryan, who refused to change the defensive sets at halftime. Word is that he and Ditka got pretty close to physical stuff in the locker room, Ryan won out, the Bears lost their only game - and really shouldn't have.Bear down, Chicago Bears!!!! Can't wait for the playoffs.Bing
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dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-06-02, 11:49 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 12:04 PM (EST)Hi Jim,I now know what was wrong with your installation of the burned buildings.
JS provided already .sd files for these, they are in your All_Stuff package.
Therefore you didn't get the missing sd file message.
But the JS sd files ask for a snow texture and my sd files don't
That's why you got the snow error, you are using the JS files.
In this case replace them with my files.Then the barbed wire. JS provided sd files for them too and they look far more better than my quick and dirty files. So use the JS sd files for the barbed wire.Testing if the spaces are preserved:

Static(
Class("BUILDINGS - Church")
FileName(US1Cathedral.s)
Shadow(none)
Align(none)
Description("Cathedral US1")
)
Yep this works, but no spaces, this comes from JS'
All_objects.ref and that one has no spaces and works on my machine.
I use the pre tag, with that tag html doesn't alter your text.Dick van den Hoven
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sniper297 (1274 posts)
Jan-06-02, 12:28 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Ok, Dick, got it. I copied Chris Talpas onto the latest Jim Steven you gave me, and ran your patented magic wonder Vbscript on it, now I have something that's 280 kilobytes. I'm considering leaving in the "preview only" category, because it has a marker in it that looks somewhat useful;
It's a mile marker, and I checked it by laying 3 500 meter straights and 1 100 meter straight next to it, 1600 meters = 1.6 kilometers = roughly one mile, so it's accurate enough for TLAR. The preview mile markers might be useful if we only knew what to do with them, are they associated with some markers that show up in the sim but not in the editor? Is that why that mail pickup doesn't show anything but the marker, the actual hook arm shows up in the sim? Lot of testing to do to answer these questions, and the readme file is gonna end up being longer than the ref! Funny thing tho, this latest Jim Steven file still appears to have left out a lot of UK viaducts and JP stations, I double checked your duplicate eliminator by doing a find in wordpad for some of those on both the before and after files, no dupes.
Still a bunch of stuff that don't work, like the JP 5 and 7 light signals, and I'm gonna look at all the potential conflicts that might be causing that;http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=642&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yeshttp://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=471&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yesso there's still a long way to go. Take a look at the new compiled ref for me, see if you spot any flaws I missed so far;
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c3887fd4237ae92.zip
Thanks. Or should I say "danke"? That's another thing that amazes me, we're talking about communication problems among Americans from different regions of the country in another thread, and your English is so flawless that you and I rarely misunderstand each other. I tried to learn some other languages, but they were all beyond me. That includes C and Visual Basic! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-06-02, 01:01 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 01:32 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 01:30 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 01:23 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 01:18 PM (EST)Hi Jim,I will check your file. I have just build a script that checks if every shape file in a shape folder is included in the ref file, so I will check your newest version.
And of course I will compare your ref file to JS ALL_objects.ref to get the descriptions and classnames.You can say "dank je" of "dank je wel" but Thanks is just good, here in the Netherlands, the people uses very much English terms.And JS has forgotten some items, here is one: metrojunk
To me a junk is something completly different And about my English, well I am in the software building branch for years, so I have to know English for all the manuals, courses, etc. The Netherlands is very small, so the language in the Information branch is much English.Update: Look here!
I have checked your latest all_stuff_new.ref but still missing several files, that are in JS ref file.
Here is the list:
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c3897d517ba590c.txt And this is what is missing of all_objects_new.ref (JS ref file):
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c3895b50c879ec0.txt Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying they are really missing, can be that there is something wrong with the scripts, either the script that pulls out the multi references out the ref file or my checking script.Now we have to do some handwork and check if this is true.Dick van den Hoven
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TOPDOG5184 (466 posts)
Jan-06-02, 02:19 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 02:42 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 02:42 PM (EST)Hi Guys. Jim did you get my e-mail? I have 3 new objects that you and JS don't have so far and I am adding 2 more. The two I found real interesting since that e-mail are CSSTART and CSEND. they are litttle boxes that say CSSTART and CSEND. they look to me to be markers of some kind. They are small boxes like the yard marker only CSSTART is blue and CSEND is red. if you give me 20 minutes I'll get a screenie of each. Craig Shortino OK Jim here's the pic of CSSRTART and IMPICKUP. I forgot to add CSEND to the ref so it's not in here yet. they are set as static objects right now but I'm gonna try Dick's decompiling .s files thingy in a sec to see if the shape file ( .s ) says what they do. whenever I add IMPICKUP to the ref as a pickup it says "UNKWON PICKUP IN THE REF FILE" everytime I strart the RE. take a looksie though. the blue one is CSSTART and the purple one is IMPICKUP. maybe you know what they are. they appear in every routes folders and they have all the files. i.e. .s, .sd, .ace What do you make of em? I'm still looking into all the files. some items I found on disk 2 and some on disk 1. But you and JS have the mail pickup set as " postbox " but do a search for the matching .s, .sd, or .ace anywhere on any CD and you won't find them or in any other route but ones that use yours or JS' all_stuff.ref. maybe that's why they don't work. I'll tell you more easter eggs when I get them in the ref.

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dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-06-02, 02:27 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 02:28 PM (EST)Craigh,
I have made it easy for you, just above your post is a post of me with the files Jim is currently missing. It is text file.
You must have the missing for allstuff_new.refOh and what JS is missing is also there, second text file.Dick van den Hoven
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dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-06-02, 02:25 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Hi,I like this. Finding new stuff. Specially stuff that the great crack JS didn't have or didn't want to have.
Here is an other gem: UKBus Texture files are UKBus.ace in Textures, Snow and Night. Also needed Light.ace, but that file is needed for many objectsHere is the sd file.
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c38a4695165e752.zip And Jim can start a new thread, this becomes long too. Dick van den Hoven
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TOPDOG5184 (466 posts)
Jan-06-02, 02:46 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Hi Dick. thatnks for the files again. there are more objects however that aren't in there either. I , like you too , like searching for these hidden gems and whatchamahoesits (sp?) lol Happy hunting Jim, Dick, and me.lol Talk to you guys soon with more goodies. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-06-02, 03:08 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Hi,Creating .sd files for the missing files will not be easy, some of them seems to need very complex .sd files like JP1A2t250r20dElev.sFor some a quick and dirty .sd file will help. Here are a few new sd files, test them please:
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c38ae7b089e0313.zip It was fun today. For me it is getting late. Tomorrow morning I have to get up at 4:30. So good night everybody.Dick van den Hoven
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sniper297 (1274 posts)
Jan-06-02, 03:54 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-02 AT 04:03 PM (EST)Actually, Bow, I think he did get a reply. They grabbed him and shipped him off to Siberia to work on software designed to gag people who ask for a patch!Craig, the one forest region in the object menu does the same thing, you get a box and a bunch of error messages, and nothing with it. The tree shape I got from it the one time I added the missing sd files to \global was the same as USdeciduoustree1 in the track objects forest regions, so I just deleted the entry. Here's the thread that may have gotten JS in trouble with MS, and explains why there are so many of these lost unfinished orphans when you go digging thru the s files;http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=589&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yes"Due to product release deadlines, Train Simulator shipped premature". I think JS was forcibly removed from us because MS didn't appreciate his honesty.
Anyway, you think you can figure out what they're for, go crazy, if they turn out to be something good we'll figure out how to make them work.Dick, this is where we get into strange territory, the last ref file I posted was the exact same file as the Jim Steven ALL_OBJECTS.REF dated 8/19, all I did to it was; (1) copy the entire contents (except the header) from combined.ref and pasted it after the last entry in ALL_OBJECTS, and (2) run your VBscript to eliminate duplicates and renamed the output file. So it's possible for it to have a whole bunch of shape file entries still missing that neither Jim Steven or Chris Talpas got around to finding and putting in there, but since it's a compilation of both files I don't know how either combined.ref or ALL_OBJECTS.REF could have anything at all that isn't in the compiled ref file.
Also, I do have the UK bus, but I get this;

Unless I've gone colorblind, yours is red and mine is yellow. Might be different textures for different regions, so I'll hunt for the ace files (I got TGAtool2 so I can look at them) and see if that's a different copy order you have there, or maybe there actually is a slightly different MSTS Europe version. (That's what JS was warning me about, Bow, altho if all the files are copied in sequence, you get different textures depending on which set is copied last, but no errors. JS included two different gravel loaders, altho in the ref file I had he appeared to be puzzled about the difference between the s files too, one is I think 15kb and the other 17kb, but the gravel loaders look identical to me. Maybe they are supposed to have different textures.) I put in your sd files for the burnt buildings, and they look just fine without snow textures, oddly enough the only vehicle I saw with a snow texture was the construction crane, the digger next to it don't have one. I'll place the UK bus I have closer to the track so I can check to see if it has a snow texture, it's possible we do have different versions of the sim.
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TOPDOG5184 (466 posts)
Jan-06-02, 07:39 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Hi Guys. jim I've been doing some more searches but so far not much. I only did a quickie kinda search. i.e. only searched for exactly 2 minutes. Had an error then had to restart so I've been workin with the CSSTART and CSEND files. I dunno how the heck to make the bat files Dick mentioned. I'm not that computer savy to understand a word of what he said. If I can get into the .s' I can find what the hell these things I found do. Also you want me to make a few snow textures for those burned buildings and some lighted texture too? I've been looking for something to repaint when I'm not doing the coupler fix. Though I put that aside for a few days. I need a break from it. I got the turntable kinda figured out today. I was searching through the tsection.dat to find out if a few easter eggs were in it. nope. but did find out how to parameter the turntable to turn but everytime I lay it then click away so to get out of the object properties mode it frezzes the editor up. ohh well back to the drawing board for all these goodies. just thought I'd do an update to let you know I'm still lookin into this stuff with you and Dick. I've been comparing yours and JS' .ref's and I think he has an object you don't. The white refinery building. it's a boxy white factory with pipes on the lower roof. I'll post some screen shots. Hopefully I'll get more progress before I start to shovel the snow which is gonna take the rest of my night away. Hopefully talk to you with good news shortly. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
TOPDOG5184 (466 posts)
Jan-07-02, 00:19 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-02 AT 00:20 AM (EST)Hiya jim and Dick. Check out these little gems I found now.The first pic is of a road section only known as "USC296_1.s " I say only known as as it is only located on Disk 1. Not in any route and has no .sd or .ace files. Now it looks like a road piece you've seen before because it's a turn but it's not in any route. I did a search through every route and nothing. There are 4 of them possibly 6 and they are: USC296A_1.s, US296A_2, B_1, B_2, and C_1 which is the one I just mentioned Though it doesn't have the C_1 line at the end but I call it C cause it was shown in the search after A's and B's. I also found 6 other objects I haven't tested yet. The second pic shows CSSTART and CSEND. Still don't know what they're for. And the last pic shows the USRefinery that JS has that you don't. I double checked to be sure and nope you don't have this one. Take a looksie.


Craig Shortino
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OkrasaGhia (189 posts)
Jan-07-02, 08:13 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." I have to admit I'm only browsing these threads about all_stuff because XTracks takes much of my time but I'm very interested in its progress. Though there are some things I fell need to be clarified.Thumbnail-files (thb or something like that) are created as needed by the route editor. If you don’t have the thumbnail-file on your disk it’s simply because you have not viewed the object in the object selector with thumbnails turned on. If you have thumbnails turned on and you still don’t get to see it it’s because something is wrong with either shape or shape description. Select the object in the object selector and you will (hopefully) get a message telling you what is wrong. If you like you can delete all thumbnail-files and new ones will be created automatically. Thus if an object does not work it’s NOT because you don’t have the thumbnail.Track sections are not part of the ref-files that Jim is working on, also alterations concerning track sections are done on a global scope (i.e. any alterations affects all routes) but ref-file alterations only affect the local route. Any track sections added to the ref-file will be treated as static objects and can not be travelled along by any trains.
Names for track sections can’t be changed, I’ve tried some solutions with no go, with less than changing its shape filename and then you must rebuild all the routes nor can you divide them into categories.Tsection.dat has figured occasionally; there’s both a global (for all routes) and a local (for each route), they are NOT the same nor are one created from the other (or any other variations on this theme I’ve seen). Your route depends at all time on both of these files. The global one contains data about all static track sections (that is straights, curves, roads, switches etc.). The local file (in your route folder) contains data about dynamic track used in that route, it is NOT a copy of the global one BUT IS dependent on the global one because IDs used in the local tsection.dat must be consecutive with IDs used in the global tsection.dat. The local tsection.dat is created (I believe) the first time you use a dynamic track section.
If you want to add any track section it always has to be done to the global tsection.dat and will affect all routes. You can still run the routes and if you have not changed the number of entries or removed any vital track sections you can also use the route editor on the routes but if you do a major alteration to the tsection.dat (like XTracks does) you’re routes will not be editable any longer and might even not run any more if you removed something that was used in the route. At the moment I’m working on a solution for this that will solve the problems in a user friendly manner (I hope).If you have problems or thoughts about how track sections and tsection.dat works pleases feel free to contact me and we can have a discussion. I monitor the forums regularly or you can e-mail me at the address below.

//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia



Steam: 0-4-0T #9, 0-6-0 #12, 2-6-0 #25, 2-6-6-2 #37, 2-8-2 #40
Diesels: SW8 #16, F3 #53, F7 #54, FP7 #57, Budd RDC #61, TrainMaster #88 Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sniper297 (1274 posts)
Jan-07-02, 12:52 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-02 AT 12:55 PM (EST)Thanks for the tip on the thumbnails, Okrasa. That opens a whole new train of thought, I wonder how much disk space could be saved by deleting all the thumbnails in every route? If they get regenerated automatically like the e.raw and n.raw files it should be perfectly safe to do it. Wouldn't affect route distribution except in the case of custom objects tho, since the shapes folder is usually deleted from the route before zipping anyway.
In one of those threads above, JS mentions that you need to rebuild the TDB after changing the signal DAT files because signals/gantries are hard coded in, he also mentions the fact that things that are added to the ref file that actually belong in DAT files will disable them. He said somewhere else that both DAT and REF need to be edited for other things, I'm kind of fuzzy on which is which. Short attention span, I start looking at one thing and forget what else I was gonna look at. And by gum, I never noticed that about the tsection.dat, the current test route for this I have a 1 mile stretch of track with no dynamic track, and after reading your post I looked in the folder, sure enough no tsection.dat file! This could explain why the dynamic track sometimes gets overlapping ends when you do a rebuild. I usually fix that by selecting each piece of dynamic track and hitting "T" twice to reconnect it, maybe there's a way to fix that in the tsection.dat instead. Possibly deleting the tsection.dat along with the TDB and RDB files before rebuilding, that may regenerate all three files, I'll have to test that. With all that it would be difficult to include Xtracks in this, the goal is to make the installation work on an unmodified install of MSTS without modifying it on the end user's system. There could be a way around that, adding it as an extra package, with a backup/restore routine built in to the installation. More complexity tho, and you just know that some hacker will eventually miss a step and upload a route that screws up the end user's MSTS install if we don't make it as simple and murphy proof as humanly possible.
Speaking of short attention spans, Craig, this is something that requires paying attention, the categories of a lot of these objects are getting shifted around. You'll find the refinery in "Buildings INDUSTRY", and even that may change again before the final version. In my working copy last night I've added Inns and Lodges to his Hotels class, if I can get the opinion of a Scandahoovian from the land of the midnight sun I might possibly add chalets to the category, because I think those are inns or Hotels or something. I'm sure that an English "Pub" qualifies because they have rooms to let above the tavern.
I added a few more churches including "chapels", any buddhists out there want to toss in their two yen's worth, the Japanese temples probably also belong in the church category. There's one "apartment building" that doesn't look anything like an apartment building, it looks more like a municipal building or museum to me.


Also in this shot, the mysterious "Blue Platform" that's looking for "platform.ace", I copied the only platform.ace available from GUI\DRIVERAIDS, and that's the shape. A different texture could be applied to it, but including an ace texture in the package is more complicated, because ace files are bigger, sometimes require multiple files, and don't compress in the zip.
Another thing is signs and flags, the flags class contains 4 signs, and those should probably be grouped with signs because they aren't flags. The only problem child in the signs is the Kalispell sign, with a missing ESD. Two of the "signs" are actually small painted billboards, so they should be moved too.
For the vehicles, I don't get an ESD error on any of them, but the big car and the UK bus have ESD files that are wrong, because the bus gives missing texture errors when run in snow or night in the sim, the car gets the error for night only. Oddly enough, the big car is the only car with a snow texture, and it looks out of scale compared to the other cars.
Anyway, back to work. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Bing (140 posts)
Jan-07-02, 01:01 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Snipe - That looks a lot like Chicago's Union Station to me, the big gray structure. Now --- how would we go underground for the train shed? Used to walk past there every day, on Jackson Blvd, after parking car in Canal St. parking garage.Did you see my previous Bear's post? Bing
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dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-07-02, 01:42 PM (EST) 24. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-02 AT 02:32 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-02 AT 01:44 PM (EST)Hi Jim,A short reply. I have checked the UK bus, the red one, I mean and that have textures in both snow and night. But if a sd file gives problems in snow or night, alter the alternative_texture in the sd file to zero.
The UKbus needs UKBus.ace
Take a look at the Europe1 route. Possibly you can find them there.
Strange you have a yellow one. I could make a red one by renaming the files I have.Have you used the sd files I provided with my last post of yesterday evening?
A whole street of worn out Japenese houses. JP2wornsingle4, JP2Wornhouse1, JP2Wornhouse2, JP2Wornhouse3 and JP2Wornhouse4.
And they work with snow!!! Dick van den Hoven
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TOPDOG5184 (466 posts)
Jan-07-02, 02:31 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Hi guys. Okrasa I just downloaded your XTracks last night. I added a few sections to my route which has been built for a week with alot of trackage and no problems. I downloaded XTracks because while looking for goodies I found the slips and wanted to try them out. I'm not that good withhacking the tsection.dat so I just went with yours. I also got XTracks because I am trying to get the turntable to actually turn. I didn't know how to get the turntable to be able to drive on so again I just went with yours. Also the section I was refering to in my above reply is the road section in the picture. They are not track sections altho I wonder if roads can be turned into track sections. Be nice for a tram or something. Jim I see what your saying but I don't have an Industrial Buildings section on your ALL_STUFF.REF only JS' version. I'm also wondering if you can put the platform.ace from the other grey platform onto it instead of the ugly azz blue one. If you ask me that grey building looks like the J. Edgar Hoover FBI building. Seening as how I've been to DC and been in that building I should know what it looks like altho I'm not saying for sure that that is what that building is. But think about it. The NEC in MSTS goes into DC right? The FBI building IS in DC so maybe that's why it's there. I mean we have the Washington Monument so the J. Edgar Hoover building is just as much as a landmark to me. I'm gonna fiddle with it to see if I can see what it really is. Also I know the road sections I found go into the tsection.dat I just placed it as a static at the time cause I had no idea what it was. I'll get back to you guys soon. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-07-02, 02:38 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-02 AT 02:40 PM (EST)Hi Craig,Do you have the lastest version. Somewhere in this long thread Jim gives a link to a zip file with the lastest version, it is called allstuff_new.ref.Wouldn't it be time that Jim gives a new update? <hint><hint> This is the link:
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c3887fd4237ae92.zip Dick van den Hoven
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blvdbill (42 posts)
Jan-07-02, 02:29 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Hey Sniper, Great job on the ALL_STUFF .... Like the way you arranged things .. makes it easier to find. One question, I was checking out some of the sound sources and when I tried to place "Guy with a Guitar" But I got that silly error saying that benssong.sms couldnt be found. Did a search on my system for it, be nothin' ... so is this going to be in one of your updates? Just wondering. Keep up the good work.Bill
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TOPDOG5184 (466 posts)
Jan-07-02, 03:01 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Hi Dick. Thanks again for the files. Wasn't the one you gave me three days ago the latest? Ohh well don't matter I got the one you just posted too. And Jim tell us what you've added in terms of what items in what categories so me and Dick can be on the same page. Unless you wanna keep all the goodies to yourself. Anyways. Gonna go look for those wornouts now and hopefully get the CSSTART and CSEND to work. Craig Shortino Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (399 posts)
Jan-07-02, 03:25 PM (EST) 29. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-02 AT 03:26 PM (EST)Hi,To give some update, this is OEHotel2. JS didn't give an .sd for it. So I make one, tricky, with a Shadow(Rect), you only get a dark spot on the ground, without a shadow, fine.It is huge building and somewhat too modern for the Orient Expres I will upload the .sd with some others tomorrow. If that is necessary. Jim let me know if I should make some more missing .sd files Dick van den Hoven
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sniper297 (1274 posts)
Jan-07-02, 04:08 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." Who cares about your previous Bears post, Bing, time for a new one! NFC Central Division Champs! First time since 1990, and with the Packers getting in on a wildcard, we might get to see a Bears-Packers postseason game for the first time in who knows how long! Union Station, hey? Now that you mention it, you're right, I was thinking it looked like either part of the Field Museum or the Art Institute, or even the old City Hall on Lasalle Street. Craig thinks it's the FBI building, so that pretty much settles it, you seen one municipal building you've seen them all. And it ain't no apartment building.
Boulevard Bill, I never saw any guy with a guitar, if I run across one I'll probably shoot him first unless he's playing railroad songs. I haven't "fiddled" (can never resist a pun) with the ssoruce.dat files, my preference would be to lose all the chirping birds (or crickets, if that's what they are) and randomly honking horns. Is that benssong.sms from the Michael Jackson song from the 70's rat movie? Too wierd.
Dick, I got a bunch of worn Japanese houses in there, I haven't tried them in snow yet. I think they were in combined.ref but not ALL_OBJECTS. What I think I should do is take all the burnt, derelict, and worn buildings, plus the construction stuff, and put them in a new "Urban Renewal" class. That OEhotel2 isn't in there, I just checked, I wondered why the only OEhotel had a number one.
Further bus research, I searched for c_bus.ace and the s file, only in Europe1, none of the other default routes. It's not in settleca.ref, so they didn't use it, probably because the sd file is wrong, it's looking for a night texture and there isn't one, just regular and snow. I copied both aces into my TGAtool2 folder, and the snow texture is identical to the regular texture, so obviously that was something else they were working on when MS grabbed the unfinished abortion and rushed it into production. They are both yellow tho, I wonder if you have a yellow texture also? I did hear somewhere that the Japanese version of this game was subtly different from the US version, is there also an MSTS Europe version?
I'll do an update probably tomorrow, there are still a lot of errors in the current, and I gotta place a whole category of objects, then test them in the sim both in snow and at night first. And I'm gonna have to start a new thread again, we went nuts on this one too! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Bing (140 posts)
Jan-07-02, 05:05 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." That's pretty much what I said about the Bears, but never mind. What really impresses me is they seem to come up with a great play at exactly the right time and that's the mark of a team that just might be able to beat anybody on a given day.I haven't seen a guy with a guitar, but a noodlebrain with a dual-rear axle straight truck drove in front of my train as I was coming down off Summit on the MP. With 4 x SD45T-2's and 25 stacks (5 x TTX), there wasn't anything to do but watch. He made it with a few feet to spare. Has anyone actually HIT one of those dunces who (apparently) get a thrill from beating out trains at crossings? Can we imagine what, say, a DD40X would do to a truck or car? Bear down Chicago Bears!!! Bing
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akochan (331 posts)
Jan-07-02, 08:14 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Allstuff package part tres." LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-02 AT 08:17 PM (EST)And I hereby the award for the longest threads ever to Sniper Dick and Craig. Since they could not be with us today, as they are busily working on AllStuff, Emenem will be accepting the award for them.
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