Signal help

Is there any way to change the signals(BNSF Interlocking) to show green unless something blocks the way? The sigscr.dat and sigcfg.dat seem to be a bit complicated to me... I'll try something anywayhttp://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/1214.html

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RE: Signal help, jleslie, Oct-03-02, 08:53 PM, (1) RE: Signal help, Kip, Oct-03-02, 09:28 PM, (2) RE: Signal help, enocell, Oct-04-02, 01:04 PM, (3) RE: Signal help, jleslie, Oct-04-02, 02:09 PM, (4) RE: Signal help, enocell, Oct-05-02, 01:36 PM, (6) RE: Signal help, enocell, Oct-05-02, 03:45 PM, (7) RE: Signal help, bobs, Oct-05-02, 09:22 PM, (8) RE: Signal help, jleslie, Oct-06-02, 00:49 AM, (9) RE: Signal help, enocell, Oct-06-02, 06:22 AM, (10) RE: Signal help, bobs, Oct-06-02, 10:27 PM, (11) RE: Signal help, enocell, Oct-07-02, 02:47 PM, (12) RE: Signal help, bobs, Oct-08-02, 02:02 PM, (13) RE: Signal help, jlucero4, Oct-04-02, 03:17 PM, (5)

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Enocell,Actually the MSTS signals really do follow prototype signal protocol, and that is as you approach a signal in a train, the only possible way for that signal to change is to a LESS restrictive aspect as you approach it. In other words, you approach a yellow signal, that signal is only supposed to go one way as you approach it and that is green, and only when the dispatcher clears it that way. If signals were all green in their "resting" state, then you could possibly be driving along looking at a green light and have it turn yellow or red in front of you, which if your train takes a mile and a half to stop but the signal changes to red a half mile in front of you, then you slide for another mile through a red light. If red is the "resting" state, then as you approach the red light you are preparing to stop anyway, but if it goes LESS restrictive, then you can let off the brakes.I don't know if I explained that right or not, but I asked the same question in the activity design forum and got that answer, only explained in a much better way.http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/1159.htmlHere's the bottom line as I see it:If you have a switch protected by a signal, you might as well make it an automatic switch, because the signal won't let you through it anyway without a path. Protecting manual switches with signals just creates AI train conflicts with your paths because if you run a path across the AI path, the AI will stop at that manual switch forever.Jeff Leslie

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Not sure this will help. I found that using MSTS default signals isn't my cup of tea. I downloaded Hank Sundermeyer's Type 30 Hood Signals and incorparated them into my Hoodoo Pass route. The script language is a little different and I have found it to be easier to run AI trains using these signals on manual switches. Hank's use premissive and absolute single, double and triple head signals which can be used in a variety of ways. The clear, limited clear and restrictive can be set at ones' descretion. I found that these signals are better suited for me anyway other than what is in MSTS default files. Just a thought.Kip
3DTS Route Developer
The Priest River Railroad "...it's so fictional, it's almost real"
PRRR Wesite Coming this fall: PRRR's Hoodoo Pass Route

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I haven't place AI trains on the player path after the HBS thing didn't work. But now I get always red signals in my activity. I just want to go to a branch pick up/drop off cars and the go back to the starting yard. But I can't get past the second signal as it's red, as well as other signals on the path. I can post the problematic activity here when I find it(I just reinstalled everything to my comp, and all files are on external and spare HD's).

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-02 AT 02:09 PM (EDT)

I'm starting to experiment with Hank Sundermeyer's signal scripts, and I'm wondering if maybe a partial fix lies there because the signals appear to have some more options than just setting the protected path.I do know one thing, I made an activity on your route where I went from Brills Yard to the Harrison Reach industrial park to do some switching. I set the player path to go into Harrison Reach and put a reverse point right in front of Brady Iron & Steel that went back out and ended back at Brills Yard. I went way beyond the reverse point into Harrison Reach, did a bunch of switching at some of the industries past Brady, and came back out past the original reverse point. I was able to pick up the player path again at the reverse point and made it back into Brills, as if I had just reversed at the reverse point and headed back out. Apparently once you trigger the reverse point, you can keep going beyond it and do whatever you want until you come back over the reverse point to pick up the original player path again.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-02 AT 02:00 PM (EDT)

Please try to make an activity on the LV tracks, starting and ending to Claremont yard(between CNJ main and CNJ freight yard), then going all the way to Bayonne and Constable hook. I got that working but after placing the cars for the activity the signal at Constable Junction was red to both directions.EDIT: Forgot to mention that in AE all signals work like they should. And no consists are on the path.

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I (partially) remade the activity since I couldn't find the original. Now I can drive through it like I want, but let's see after I add the action events. Last time that changed the signals to show only red.If there's a static consist on the spur where the arrow points, does that cause the signals to be red? That's the only difference with the "old" activity. That could be possible but there's 12 switches between the spur and the signal(but the path will go straight to the spur when placed for the first time).

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A static consist will cause an "occupied" condition to be presented to the signal script. Assuming the signal script tells the signal to show "stop", that's what it will show, although the AI Dispatcher will let you past the signal if you ask.In the real world, you often hear the dispatcher giving a train permission to pass a signal displaying stop indication, track x to track y, back to your train.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.0

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I made that activity first with no static consists, and had green all the way into the Bayonne industry area, turned around at the loop and went back out. The light at the exit was red until I got about .2 mile from it, then it changed to green on it's own.I added static consists to the route where you showed them in yours, and the only difference was that while still southbound from Claremont I ran into a red light at Constable Junction but after hitting the tab key the dispatcher gave me permission. Then the light changed green right before I got to it. Then I went into the industrial area, switched some cars, and again had a red light at the exit but it changed green again right before I got to it. I set a reverse point just west of the Owens-Illinois siding that went back to Claremont Yard.I'm curious what would happen if the switch at the entrance to the industrial area was an automatic.Jeff Leslie

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-02 AT 06:23 AM (EDT)

I got it to work now. I think that the consist on that spur was the cause. I need to test that.I also have new problem, but that activity is in very early stage. Maybe some reverse points will help. I can pass these signals only once, but I need to do that at least 3 times(to pick up all cars in the yard).

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Reverse points are the answer. In most cases, you only get once pass of the signal, after which it will be red. This is because of a function in the signal/path code called "enabled." The sim enables portions of a path, depending on where you are in your activity. There is a value in the signal configs that indicates how many blocks are looked at ahead of a given signal in determining what to enable. This is probably also why the signals turned green in front of JLeslie's train. When a given section of track ahead of a signal is not enabled by the sim, the signal script is coded such that the signal shows stop. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way, but that's the way they are coded.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.0

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I have two more questions
1. I have a passing siding which has signals at both ends. The signals let me drop cars there(by driving through and then reverse on the next track), then pick up more cars from a branch and come back and recouple to the train. But I can't leave the siding as the signal is red and TAB-key doesn't give the permission.
I think that it won't allow me to pass the signal twice(I have now two paths which pass the same signal.2. Why the signals work in AE but not in the game?

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1. Not sure if I totally get what you are trying to do here. Sounds like your passing siding has a spur or siding attached and that you when you go into it, the front of your train goes past the signal at the exit. If so, how the signal reacts will depend on what other paths also go through that signal. In some cases, you can back up and the signal will clear again. In others, once you back up, the switch resets to normal, the signal goes red, and AI traffic now gets a green, perhaps many miles away. You may get another green after the AI traffic clears, but you may not.2. The VCR feature of the activity editor is, at best, an approximation of what actually happens in the sim. Trains appear to run at the best possible speed, which you can almost never duplicate when running them by hand. In an activity where you start with just engines and pick up cars along the way, the AE doesn't know this and will most likely leave the cars where they are and run light engine, which also runs faster. The signals that appear in the AE only show clear or stop (red or green) even though the actual signal may be showing something else. Combine all that, and probably some other factors, and you can see that the AE VCR can't possibly duplicate what will actually happen, except for the most simple circumstances, without being totally redesigned.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.0

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-02 AT 03:18 PM (EDT)

Actually, on some lines, it is prototypical for signals to actually be green in their resting state. The rail line I live close to is ABS, and the signals are always green unless there is a train in the block that the signal guards or in the next block.Jordan L.
La Junta, CO

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