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Here's a question (the question is way later, just bear with me here...) for the signal guru's out there. Keep in mind that I have only recently decided to delve into the alchemy of signals, so I might be asking a dumb question here. I've searched and searched the forums for a similar question and haven't seen anybody ask it yet. Maybe I just didn't find it.As I look at the SIGSCR file for N&NJ, I'm trying to decipher this stuff and at the same time try to figure out why the signals act the way they do in the sim. Lets say I create an activity with a single loco sitting away on an obscure siding somewhere or even in a stall at an enginehouse. The path is created real short, about the length of the loco itself so that the path doesn't even go near a switch or signal or anything. No other traffic or even a static consist anywhere on the route. The loco is not moving. WHY ARE ALL THE SIGNALS ON THE ENTIRE FREAKIN ROUTE RED??? One would think (I know, applying logic to MSTS is improper syntax) that with the route empty, all the signals in the "rest" state would be green since there's no traffic anywhere. Looking at the SIGSCR file I see a lot of reference to the state of the next signal. Well, no sh1t, if one is red then that would make them all red if the state of one sets the state of all the rest.My question is, why can't we alter the SIGSCR file to show the "rest" state as CLEAR or even OFF instead of STOP? Seems to me that if we could do that, then we would be able to attack this AI train thing from the rear and maybe get things to work. I should be able to pull a train onto a siding, switch the industries there to my heart's content, put it all back together, then pull up to the interlocking, hit TAB and get permission if it's clear or wait if it's not. Yeah, right. I notice on the CSX tracks that run through my hometown of Akron Ohio ( I know, comparing prototypes to MSTS is like comparing apples to a cow pie...), that the normal state of one signal where I like to sit and watch trains is DARK. I know that a train is coming in about 5 minutes when all the sudden the signal comes to life. The interesting thing though is when the local freight with its 2 or 3 cars comes by to switch the siding near the signal in question - the signal STAYS DARK. The engineer probably spits chew on it when he drives by it. I figure this is because the train is operating under local control and is squeezing it's run in between timetabled mainline trains. I should be able to do the same thing in MSTS - not MSTS2, but right here, right now. Jeff Leslie
Im not a signal guru but the answer to your question is that MSTS signalling attempts to model a Dispatcher controlled CTC railroad where in the absence of any trains most signals are red. Signals are only cleared ( ie changed from red to another state ) when a train is approaching the signal or when the dispatcher clears the signal.The problem with a system where all signals are green in the normal state is that you could easily get a situation where your train is approaching a green signal and it drops back to red in front of you and you cant stop in time .In the real railway world , dropping green signals back to red in front of trains is only done in extreme emergencies , due to the possibility of derailment that may result if the train engineer slams the brakes in to emergency when confronted with a red right in front of him.The only form of signallin thet I am aware of where the normal state of signals is green in the absence of trains is APB (Auto Permissive Block) and this isnt modelled in MSTS.MD
Thanks for the reply. I've read other descriptions about signal operations that made it appear as though signals are green in their rest state. Your description does make better sense though, I knew that you should be prepared for signals to change to a more permissive state but wasn't sure about the rest aspect when there's no traffic.Getting back to MSTS, the more I tinker with signals and their operation in activities, I think that the biggest thing we can do to get better operation is to make sure that each protected switch is an automatic one. It is useless to have a protected switch manual because the signals won't let you go through it anyway without a path. Automatic switches make running traffic trains a heck of a lot easier.I've also discovered that you can go outside a path as long as you aren't crossing any signals, if you want to do some switching. I had a reverse point set up at the start of a branch line that had several industrial sidings on it. I went way past the reverse point to switch the sidings, making all sorts of forward and backward movements and throwing all sorts of switches. But, when I came back to the reverse point to leave along the original path again, it was as if I'd never left, which was quite a relief.Some of the more experienced activity builders reading this (if anybody is reading this...) probably already knew that, but I've spent 99% of my time in MSTS the last 15 months in the Route Editor, not driving trains or making activities. I figured it was time to take the plunge and learn signals so that I can have some knowledge of them when I get around to signalling my route.Jeff Leslie
Hi Jeff. Ive only started making some simple activities after reading thru masses of tutorials and reading the forums. Im playing with Marias V3 which is a re worked version of the original Marias route. Its got a regraded line which makes the trains perform a lot more realistically and all the signalling has been re worked as well. A really good effort by the guys who did it. All the switches are manual , but Ive not found that this presents any problem as the AI dispatcher seems to do the right thing most of the time . If you get hold of the modified camera control file you can go anywhere on the whole route and look at the signals and the AI trains and you then get a better idea of how the AI Dispatcher works. Writing a decent AI Dispatcher is no easy task ,as its a hugely difficult problem , which explains why in the real world just about all Dispatchers are real people.The hardest thing to do is to get AI trains to overtake the players train in a repeatable manner , but Ive just about got it sorted out. I still have to fully understand passing paths and broken points but once Ive understood them Ill upload some of my activities.best of luk MD
