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tomkrist (51 posts)
Nov-21-01, 10:59 AM (EST) "How to build route book,recomend it!" I just bought the route book from Abacus, Guide to Route building and i just have to recomend this for everyone as i got ALOT of answers on questions i did'nt get help for.T.K
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: How to build route book,recomen... LawrenceKellie Nov-21-01 1 RE: How to build route book,recomen... Boweavel Nov-21-01 2 RE: How to build route book,recomen... LawrenceKellie Nov-21-01 3 RE: How to build route book,recomen... CNBALA Nov-21-01 4 RE: How to build route book,recomen... WestSlopeRRfan Nov-21-01 18 RE: How to build route book,recomen... Boweavel Nov-21-01 5 RE: How to build route book,recomen... trueman Nov-21-01 6 RE: How to build route book,recomen... LawrenceKellie Nov-21-01 7 RE: How to build route book,recomen... trueman Nov-21-01 17 RE: How to build route book,recomen... tomkrist Nov-21-01 8 RE: How to build route book,recomen... rgarber Nov-21-01 9 RE: How to build route book,recomen... CPR_Malice_96th Nov-21-01 10 RE: How to build route book,recomen... LawrenceKellie Nov-21-01 12 RE: How to build route book,recomen... tomkrist Nov-21-01 11 RE: How to build route book,recomen... rgarber Nov-21-01 14 RE: How to build route book,recomen... LawrenceKellie Nov-21-01 13 RE: How to build route book,recomen... rgarber Nov-21-01 15 RE: How to build route book,recomen... LawrenceKellie Nov-21-01 16 RE: How to build route book,recomen... trueman Nov-21-01 19 RE: How to build route book,recomen... Jak_Fearon Nov-21-01 20 RE: How to build route book,recomen... mivone Nov-21-01 21 RE: How to build route book,recomen... LawrenceKellie Nov-21-01 22 RE: How to build route book,recomen... tomkrist Nov-22-01 23 RE: How to build route book,recomen... trueman Nov-22-01 25 Perhaps folks need to stop "reading... lnghairedwizard Nov-22-01 24

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LawrenceKellie (691 posts)
Nov-21-01, 12:11 PM (EST) 1. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" >as i got ALOT of
>answers on questions i did'nt
>get help for. I'm curious about something. What is your definition for "ALOT"?When I read this, my first action was to look at how many posts you had made, after all, "a lot" should show in the number of posts. The number was 44. Hmmm. We may have a different definition.So I did a search on your name in this Route forum. I found that you had posted in 11 threads, five of which were started by you. I started reading all your posts, in all 11 threads.Thread 1 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2046.html)--No questions.Thread 2 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2062.html)--One question, which is impossible for the book you bought to answer. Therefore, this question doesn't count. And I have no idea if you were answered as you asked for the answer to be sent via e-mail.Thread 3 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2072.html)--One question, which was totally answered.Thread 4 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2104.html)--No question asked.Thread 5 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2105.html)--Aha. A thread started by you. First four questions would be impossible for the book to answer (the original message). In this thread, you only write one more time. In that second message, you thank the person for answering your question. Then you asked two more questions which would be impossible for the book to answer.Thread 6 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2172.html)--Another thread started by you. You asked, "Where can i find good documentation about this?" The very next message was, "Try the Abacus site. Good payware." How much better of an answer could you ever want. You, yourself, state how good the book is. You were answered. Furthermore, the book could not answer where to find good documentation. The next answer (DKlemm) to your question also adequately answered your question. The third response was by the author of the book you are recommending, thus answering your question again. The last message also answered your question. Therefore, in this one thread with five messages (the original question and four answers), you were very adequately answered by all four responses.Thread 7 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2080.html)--No question asked.Thread 8 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2183.html)--This thread started by you, and two questions were asked. You were answered by one person, who may well be the guru of train signals in MSTS--Rich Garber. Further, you had already been advised to buy the book you are promoting. If the book has provided more detail answers than you received from Rich, you already had your question answered, as you had already been told four times to buy it.Thread 9 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2242.html)--This thread also started by you. You ask two questions, one of which is a declarative statement, not a question. (To be honest, I have no idea what the question was, and still don't.) Your first question was very nicely answered. In response to that answer, you asked another question (making 2). You received two very good answers to your question. Whereas the book you are promoting may provide more indepth information, you did not pursue this discussion, which gives the indication that the answers were adequate.Thread 10 (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2287.html)--Thread started by you. This was the unfortunate one where you were castigated by milgarfield2001. In your original post, you asked eight questions. First two questions: I would be surprised if the first two questions are covered in the book (packaging installation). Next two questions: The next two questions are probably answered very nicely in the book (water). Next question: The next question, upon further examination, is actually two questions. But I am still counting it as one. I would guess that the book may well deal with that subject (signals).Last three questions: Not covered in the book at all (would you pay for this route).Now let's look at the responses.First two questions. Rich Garber answered those questions very nicely.Next two questions. Rich suggested that you do a search. Therefore, question answered. I state this rather categorically because I *know* that the subject of "water" has been covered quite extensively, even to a very detailed, with graphics, mini-tutorial that I posted! If you had of used the search function, you would have found it.Next question. Rich again provided a very good and total answer. In fact, I just followed it last night, and it was a 100% correct answer.Last three questions. These, I will not reopen old garbage.You then, at response 22 post another message. Nothing in it about the original 5 questions. And that was the closing post of the thread.Therefore, you had asked eight questions. Three of which I am not going to count (last three). On the other five, you received very good answers. Now, does the book you are promoting provide more information? Probably. But, if you still had questions, you never followed up.Thread 11. This thread.So out of the eleven threads, you asked 21 questions. Discounting the three questions of thread 11--the ones about selling your route--you asked 18 questions. By my determination all were answered very adequately.Therefore, you have not asked one question in this forum where you have not received an answer.Now, you may not agree that the answers were adequate, but you *always* have the option to follow up on your questions. For the most part, you did not avail yourself of that option. It also appears that you have not made use of the search function, as there is nothing written about it. Finally, you received advice early on to buy the very book you are promoting, and you apparently didn't at that time. Therefore, any question asked which the book may provide detailed answers does not count, in my opinion.Therefore, I respectfully ask again, what do you consider "ALOT"? It appears to me, by looking at the facts, that all your questions have been either answered or the book probably does not cover that information.So please, do not portray that you have been unanswered in this Forum. That is just not the case, as the facts point out.Lawrence
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Boweavel (1290 posts)
Nov-21-01, 12:17 PM (EST) 2. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Geee And i thought I had a lot of time on my hands.. You must be real bored latley hey Lawrence
Who'd want to ask anything in these forums if they can expect answers like that....?Catchya Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (691 posts)
Nov-21-01, 12:28 PM (EST) 3. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Yes, it was a rather long and detailed response. First, the message to which I responded was not a question. Therefore, your question is a non sequitur.Second, in response to your question, I believe that what I wrote supports that questions ARE being answered; therefore, a person should feel very comfortable in asking. (Of course, I have for a long time been an advocate of the Search function. Therefore, if I know the question has been answered in the past, I will not waste my time and Nels resources to respond again. I will guide the person to the Search function.)But as far as questions being answered, I believe the facts I have outlined above supports that questions *are* being answered, and quite adequately.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CNBALA (8 posts)
Nov-21-01, 01:18 PM (EST) 4. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" I see that some of you have received the copy. But where's mine and I have been wating for two weeks after sending the order to the company in Michigan. I did sent three e-mails to them to ask where is my order? Never receive a reply from them and guess I have to make a long distance telephone call to inquire about my order soon.ThanksCNBALA Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
WestSlopeRRfan (108 posts)
Nov-21-01, 06:06 PM (EST) 18. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" I just bought the book also. I called in my order, and according to the web site was suppose to have the code in 24hrs. Well 64hrs later I called the 800 number and a gal sent me the code while we were on the phone. They had already processed the money but had forgotten to send me the code. Its bad customer service but the book is well worth it.Nick

Here is the free number for you.
1-800-451-4319 Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Boweavel (1290 posts)
Nov-21-01, 01:28 PM (EST) 5. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" >Second, in response to your question,
>I believe that what I
>wrote supports that questions ARE
>being answered; therefore, a person
>should feel very comfortable in
>asking. (Of course, I
>have for a long time
>been an advocate of the
>Search function. Therefore, if
>I know the question has
>been answered in the past,
>I will not waste my
>time and Nels resources to
>respond again. I will
>guide the person to the
>Search function.)
>Lawrence
Yup.... Couldnt agree with you more there.. Catchya's
Boweevel Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
trueman (25 posts)
Nov-21-01, 01:56 PM (EST) 6. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Whew!!!Geez, Lawrence, get a life! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (691 posts)
Nov-21-01, 02:10 PM (EST) 7. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Oh, I do have a life. Thank you for wishing me well.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
trueman (25 posts)
Nov-21-01, 05:31 PM (EST) 17. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" You are most welcome Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tomkrist (51 posts)
Nov-21-01, 02:51 PM (EST) 8. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Here i am sitting, just happy to have this book, and the
only reason for this post was to recomend it to other
users. I am not going to answer just a stupid post
like that, spending time on nothing. Its not worth itT.K Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (582 posts)
Nov-21-01, 02:59 PM (EST) 9. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" "i got ALOT of answers on questions i did'nt get help for."Well Tom, your the one who stuck that tag on the last of your line so what did you think was gonna happen? It sounds like you don't think we're very supportive around here. That's the way it came off to me too.Maybe if your excited by the book, great! I recommended the book to you awhile back. By why take it out on us?Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPR_Malice_96th (309 posts)
Nov-21-01, 03:10 PM (EST) 10. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Lawrence Kellie,AKA. Forum Police !!heheTim Kent
CPR_Malice
Winnipeg, Canada. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (691 posts)
Nov-21-01, 03:26 PM (EST) 12. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" ::chuckle::As Rich pointed out, if a person is going to make a statement like was made, that person better be able to support it.Philosophical SoapboxEach of us in this forum only has the words that we write, with a few emoticons, to convey information. We do not have hand gestures, body language, voice inflection, etc. Therefore, choosing words carefully, and writing accurately--both factually and grammatically--is quite important.On grammar, even though it bugs the BeGezzus (sp?) out of me to see some of the poor grammar (spelling is included in the word "grammar") that is used (i.e., not capitalizing at beginning of sentence, not spelling correctly, verb/noun agreement, not putting a space after a period or comma, etc.), I try to refrain from saying anything about it. It *may* be that the person writing is doing the best he can.But to make a declarative statement of such sweeping magnitude.... Or to put it another way, to write an untruth... well, the facts better support it. In this case, the facts didn't support the statement. If I am shown wrong, I gladly will apologize/recant. But I will not apologize for statements that I point out to be unfactual.There are many, many times when I am posting comments, such as these, that I will have two or more instances of my browser open to verify information, to make sure that what I am saying is correct. Because as I stated near the beginning of this message, we only have words to convey our message. That's all.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tomkrist (51 posts)
Nov-21-01, 03:16 PM (EST) 11. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" >Well Tom, your the one who stuck that tag on the last of your >line so what did you think was gonna happen? It sounds like you >don't think we're very supportive around here. That's the way >it came off to me too.>Maybe if your excited by the book, great! I recommended the >book to you awhile back. By why take it out on us?
There was in no meaning for me to "take it out on you". My apologice for that. I think its my not very good english that is the reason for this,hehe. My point is that after reading the book and testing it, i found a lot of answers on things i had
problems on, like making water, tunells, etc... Again, sorry, but
i think it is just a big misunderstanding around here.But anyway, doing a search like this guy did, well, i really wish i had that much time like he seems to have T.K
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rgarber (582 posts)
Nov-21-01, 04:05 PM (EST) 14. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Well I'm glad you got us straighted out on this. I thought it was kinda odd myself. You've always been pretty decent on here and I've never seen ya complain so I was kinda surprised. Didn't realize you was from another country. I know we conversed by email but my memory isn't too good sometimes. Anyway, good enough for me. We got that one cleared. Just remember to be real sweet to the 'resident duly appointed librarian down yonder.' I'm thinking maybe we should also appoint him as Forum Historian. All in favor, say I! Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (691 posts)
Nov-21-01, 03:37 PM (EST) 13. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Please reread the thread at http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/2287.html.Please consider the role I played in that confrontation. I supported you and your efforts. I supported you when milgarfield2001 made some very interesting comments. I even spoke very sternly to milgarfield2001, i.e., "dog-dang"! milgarfield2001 was making judgments that were uncalled for and statements that were untrue. I pointed out his untruth.Now consider what you wrote. As Rich pointed out, your last several words certainly made a statement on the level of help you have received. According to those last few words (herein quoted: "i got ALOT of answers on questions i did'nt get help for"), you declared that you did not get your questions answered.So, as with milgrafield2001, I pointed out the untruth of what you said.For future consideration, please consider these two phrases:1. i got ALOT of answers on questions i did'nt get help for.and 2. i got ALOT of answers to questions I had.Notice that the first one implies you asking and not receiving answers. The second makes no such implication.As I wrote to CPR_Malice, we only have words to work with in this forum, therefore, we need to make sure that they are what we *really* mean to say.Going by your previous posts, I think that what you wrote was NOT what you meant. In other words, I believe you did NOT mean to say that you received no answers to "ALOT" of questions. I believe you did NOT mean phrase 1 above, but that you meant phrase 2 above.Unfortunately, phrase 1 was what you wrote.So, please consider that regardless of who wrote what you wrote, even Rich, who I have conversed at length with via e-mail and telephone, I would write the same thing.And make sure that the facts support your statements.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (582 posts)
Nov-21-01, 04:09 PM (EST) 15. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Gee Lawrence.. uhhhhhhh... *fidgeting* you wouldn't by any chance have *stammering* any possible links in that massive link recording machine of yours to .. uh... links where I'm talking to that farm girl?? You know? The one that left me for Sniper??? Could be used as damaging blackmail material... eh? Rich Garber Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (691 posts)
Nov-21-01, 04:21 PM (EST) 16. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" You'll never know. Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
trueman (25 posts)
Nov-21-01, 06:21 PM (EST) 19. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Lawrence, there is more to effective communication than simply reading the words that are on the page. Sometimes, one needs to read between the lines, infer what the author intended, or even interpret/decode the sentences. You may not like the ambiguity (I certainly don't), but that's life - we have to get used to it. Also, we need to accept that people have differing skill levels (vis-a-vis written English), even when English is their first language.I understood exactly what was intended (which might have involved a little bit of luck). I did not think that the writer was complaining about a lack of answers in this forum, or that he didn't appreciate the help that he has received. (If he had been complaining, I don't think there would have been any doubt.)If you really would like to see ambiguity in action, record a casual conversation between two or three people then transcribe the result. I guarantee that you would be amazed that any communication took place at all! Well, many people write much the way they speak. There's no sense trying to change that (at least, not here).By the way, I appreciate the clarity with which you communicate. It is always a pleasure to read something that has been carefully thought out and constructed - that is always preferable to decoding something that was written in haste. (While I am on this topic, I was disappointed to read that you are postponing or dropping your scenery building guide. Your writing skills would have made the project worthwhile.)All I suggest is that you give someone the benefit of the doubt before grinding him into the ground. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Jak_Fearon (196 posts)
Nov-21-01, 10:33 PM (EST) 20. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Just to add some levity to this mix, I thought I'd throw in some links to one of my favorite sites. Enjoy. http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame59.htmlhttp://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame41.htmlhttp://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame31.htmlJak Fearon
how in the world?
http://www.howintheworld.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
mivone (93 posts)
Nov-21-01, 11:02 PM (EST) 21. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Wow! All that due to my little book...My 2 cents' worth: I have seen so many misunderstandings due to less than perfect phrasing in e-mail and forums, that I suggest first asking the writer what he/she actually meant. That saves everyone a lot of energy and time!Let's get back to reading and writing books, or plain simming...BTW: I thank both Tom and Lawrence for their recommendations!Michael Vone
Step by Step Guide to Route Building for Microsoft Train Simulator
Cliff Hanger Route
Rocky Island Route
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LawrenceKellie (691 posts)
Nov-21-01, 11:17 PM (EST) 22. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" I don't believe I recommended it. I just stated what I believe it may contain. I have not bought it.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tomkrist (51 posts)
Nov-22-01, 04:46 AM (EST) 23. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" This was just a mistake from my side.PS: Do you think my boss is allowing me to go back to work
today, after printing out thoose 199 pages ? hehehe..Excellent work !T.K Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
trueman (25 posts)
Nov-22-01, 10:28 AM (EST) 25. "RE: How to build route book,recomend it!" Well, Mike; I bought your book and will certainly recommend it to other people on this forum.It may be that most of the information from your book can be found in this forum. I don't really care if that is the case or not. The fact is that you have added a great deal of value to the information by organizing it into something that is enjoyable to read.Presenting the material in two major, intertwined threads - building a route in one thread while discussing the details in another - was a great idea.By the time that I had finished your book, I had a complete route including tunnels, water, stations, dynamic track etc. What else could I ask for?
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lnghairedwizard (242 posts)
Nov-22-01, 05:29 AM (EST) 24. "Perhaps folks need to stop "reading between the lines"" >I just bought the route book
>from Abacus, Guide to Route
>building and i just have
>to recomend this for everyone
>as i got ALOT of
>answers on questions i did'nt
>get help for.
>
>T.K
No where above does it specifically "slam" anyone in the forums for not responding or answering his questions,...One could infer that he means the book provided answers that people in the forum did not have the answer to (just as easily as people could infer that he was "complaining" about a lack of support from forum users) Why is it the people always assume the worst?.... For me,(the above statement(s))is a good selling point for the book as it tells me the book DOES contain info that I might NOT find in the forums or archives. Although in the heat of the moment of designing an activity (when a problem occurs) I have posted redundant questions which with a little time and effort I might have found the answer to by searching the archives and I usually got a post reminding me to try that first (no sour apples here BTW, I dont expect people to do my "homework" for me...)However, I also have posted questions (to which I searched like hell and found nadda in the archives or recent posts) to which I recieved no responses so I think Tom's post is valid. Again, no sour apples as I have asked some pretty difficult and/or esoteric questions in these forums and I assume that people didn't respond because perhaps they were following ancient and wise advice...."If you dont have anything intelligent or constructive to say......"My only criticism of these forums is that I wish folks would consider the above advice before they "insert foot....""The Glass is half FULL" Longhairedwizard Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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