Tunnel, Arkansas

Well, that's what the timetable says this place is called. And that's about all it is... a place! (Though there's a short siding being used to load fresh cut ties just east of this pic.)This side, the east bore, is simply a hole in the rock... the west bore has a wooden portal... still gotta' make that. Anyway, thought I'd post a couple of pics... now back to work!
Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Hack, Dec-08-03, 11:42 AM, (1) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-08-03, 12:29 PM, (2) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., ATSF104, Dec-08-03, 05:41 PM, (3) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-08-03, 07:53 PM, (4) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., dmikulec, Dec-08-03, 08:39 PM, (5) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-08-03, 11:08 PM, (6) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., dmikulec, Dec-08-03, 11:46 PM, (7) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 00:52 AM, (10) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., dmikulec, Dec-09-03, 10:12 AM, (18) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., mdeming, Dec-09-03, 00:10 AM, (8) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 00:50 AM, (9) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., IcyFire, Dec-09-03, 00:56 AM, (11) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 01:06 AM, (12) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., IcyFire, Dec-09-03, 02:03 AM, (13) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 03:45 AM, (14) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., rgarber, Dec-09-03, 09:01 AM, (16) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., IcyFire, Dec-09-03, 09:11 AM, (17) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., ssw, Dec-09-03, 02:21 PM, (19) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 07:48 PM, (23) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., dmikulec, Dec-09-03, 08:54 PM, (25) RE: Payware, century242, Dec-09-03, 10:18 PM, (27) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., dmikulec, Dec-09-03, 08:06 AM, (15) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 02:24 PM, (20) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., ATSF104, Dec-09-03, 06:25 PM, (21) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 07:45 PM, (22) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., dmikulec, Dec-09-03, 08:13 PM, (24) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-09-03, 09:39 PM, (26) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., dmikulec, Dec-09-03, 11:00 PM, (28) RE: Tunnel, Arkansas..., Coonskin, Dec-10-03, 02:15 AM, (29)

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Holy Toledo - that looks great, Andre! I've noticed that your recent pics contain a ton of trees - at least within view. How's the FPS, if you don't mind me asking?Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Marc Man said:"Holy Toledo - that looks great, Andre!"Thank you Marc. Appreciate the encouragement."I've noticed that your recent pics contain a ton of trees - at least within view." Well, the key word being "within the view". As long as the cam isn't taken to stratospheric heights, the illusion remains in place. Certainly, from the cab the scene through here looks "full"."How's the FPS, if you don't mind me asking?"Don't mind you asking at all. My system as a reference point (certainly not a stout system): 1.3 Ghz Celeron
256 megs PC100 SDRAM
GeForce 4 MX 440 w/64 megs of RAMI've developed a tree system that is very kind to the FPS. On a typical "forest" tile containing 500 or so tree objects (a mix of billboards, blocks, single trees/weeds), I will generally get FPS on my system that runs in the upper 20's... with 28 being the norm. The above scene uses a lot of transfers and rock objects with 512 textures. Using an era-specific train through this scene the FPS will drop to low twenties, sometimes upper teens. Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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2 questions for you Andre I was wondering do you happen to know a release date for your route?
And secondly what towns does your route go through?-Matt ATSF GP60M #104 works on the local in Flagstaff, AZ.

3 votes in the ATSF Contest.

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Matt asked:"2 questions for you Andre.."Okay... shoot Big Guy. "I was wondering do you happen to know a release date for your route?"Whew. Loaded question! I can get myself in some deep doo doo if I miss my projected release date. However, the end is in sight (finally). In the back of my mind, I'm hoping for near Christmas release... but that's if ALL remaining items go very smoothly. Working with RE and AE, how often does that happen? Upside: I've been sending updated beta's to my beta tester, so hopefully that will save time as the beta testing will be completed along with the route."And secondly what towns does your route go through?"Western terminal: Seligman Mo. (Connection with the SLSF RR.)
Pender, Mo.
Walden, Mo.
Beaver, Ark.
Junction, Ark. (more of a "place" than a town, though needed trackage is there.)
Eureka Springs (At the end of 2 mile branch south of Junction.)
Tunnel Switch (merely a spur)
Grandview, Ark.
Freeman, Ark. (Another junction)
Berryville, Ark. (At end of 3 mile branch.)
End Of Track (just a "place" where the track construction for the eastward expansion is located!)Total mainline length is about 33 miles. Add to that 5 miles of branch trackage. Running at near maximum track speed (30 MPH), you go through a town/place about every 5-6 minutes.Some of the towns are going to be interesting to switch. In fact, other than a scenic visual experience, local switching should be the forte' of the North Arkansas route. Seligman, for example, is quite compact, yet, will require some real thinking to accomplish switching there. Plus, as per prototype, you will have to back out of Seligman in order to head east on the North Arkansas map. I've attached a map of Seligman below to illustrate what I'm saying.Eureka Springs will also be a challenge to switch, as will Berryville. Then there's the grades and small steam engines. Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-03 AT 08:41 PM (EST)

Ah ... towns!and switching!Now we're talking.After looking at all that green, I was beginning to wonder where all the people where. The switching you describe sounds good, and I'm actually starting to get anxious to see how well that can be accomplished with the period equipment.Will I have to learn how to use link and pin equipment? Should I increase my life insurance? You've gotten my attention. (edit for content)--
Dave Mikulec (former Charter Member)"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

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David M. exclaimed with joy:"Ah ... towns!"Indeed, towns. "and switching! Now we're talking."Yup. There will be all sorts of online and local switching to do. "After looking at all that green, I was beginning to wonder where all the people where."Well, frankly, there weren't that many "back then" in the Ozarks! The largest of mountain towns at the time numbered about 1000-2000 people... but those were pretty far inbetween. In retrospect, that's the main reason the North Arkansas didn't survive: There simply wasn't enough commerce in the region throughout the life of the railroad. Several of the towns on the North Arkansas route are prototoypically small. However, there are about three larger ones that comprise the main revenue base for the expanding railroad (at the time), and they will offer good switching opportunity as well as freight movement."The switching you describe sounds good, and I'm actually starting to get anxious to see how well that can be accomplished with the period equipment."The "period" equipment I've worked with over the course of my involvement with MSTS, both standard and narrow gauge, have proven to be acceptably reliable. You can sometimes get into trouble using the front coupler, but that's not too rare for MSTS, regardless what equipment one uses."Will I have to learn how to use link and pin equipment?" LOL! Nope. This is set in 1901. On standard gauge US roads the deadline for link & pin was 1899. Thus, all interchange std gauge equipment had automatic couplers by 1901. "Should I increase my life insurance?"Well, actually, railroading on the North Arkansas WILL be quite different. You'll need to learn how to understand and use Train Orders. Overlook a Train Order and run your meeting point... and you WILL experience the infamouse "Cornfield Meet"! However, a short tutorial on the use of basic Train Orders will be included with the release. Trust me, it will definitely be "different" to railroad on the North Arkansas."You've gotten my attention." Well, seeing as you have suffered from MSTS A.D.D. in the past, how long will I be able to hold it?
Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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>Well, seeing as you have suffered from MSTS A.D.D. in the
>past ...Guilt as charged.> how long will I be able to hold it? I'll be waiting. And, I have been busy. 127+ miles of Nickel Plate mainline and three bad DEM files from Mapmart and I'm still at it ...--
Dave Mikulec (former Charter Member)"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
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Nice pic, Dave!Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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>Nice pic, Dave!
>
>Andre Ming
>THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
>Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!
Compare it to this prototype photograph :http://nkphts.org/pictures/shared/ameling/767_continentaljpg.html
--
Dave Mikulec (former Charter Member)"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/m/dmikulec/OSES/index.html

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I lived in Berryville about 12 years ago, nice little town. I am looking forward to your route.
Mike

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 00:51 AM (EST)

Small world Mike!I lived in Huntsville, Arkansas from 12/86 to 5/90. I could have very well been at Huntsville while you were at Berryville!Did you ever get out and poke around to see if you could find any traces of the old North Arkansas? During my Huntsville tenure I spent quite a bit of time retracing/discovering the remnants of the old North Arkansas from Seligman, Missouri, all the way down to Shirley, Arkansas. Fascinating line.They used a balloon track at Berryville to reverse trains to in order to return to Freeman Jct. I was able to find traces of the old balloon loop in Berryville. Think I recall a RR structure too? (Depot?) Would have to dig out my slides and notes. You won't recognize a 1901 version of Berryville. (False front stores, old hotels, etc, etc.) I was not able to find/unearth track diagrams for the actual trackage of Berryville, so had to wing it. In so doing, I decided to take the industry trackage down toward the heart of Berryville to aid operational opportunities. Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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Andre, am I correct to assume this is the payware route your doing? Just curious.
*point to your sig and you as a sponsor in Marc's contest*

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IcyFire asked:"Andre, am I correct to assume this is the payware route your doing? Just curious."A sharp one, you are. Just like Yogi Berra said: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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Thats what I thought. Let me give you some advice then. It's been my observation that when one releases something payware, he should call it as such. So far you have not formally mentioned that this is a payware route, and alot of people are cheering you on, not knowing that fact. and because of this, It's gonna come to a shock to alot of people when they see a price tag on it. That very thing happened to SLW with the SD80/90 package, and there still are people who are sore about it not being announced earlier that it was payware, So say it loud, and say it clear for the masses "This route WILL be payware" otherwise you will have alot of disappointed people.(and a side note, dont take this the wrong way, I realize it could sound like I'm on some kind of warpath here, I'm not, I Just dont want to see you, or, the people be disappointed when the cat is out of the bag)

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To any and all that have asked (most, if not all, have asked off forum), I have tried to quickly reply and be quite forthright in answering in the affirmative. Frankly, I have made no official announcements from the onset as to release/launch of website, etc, because I wanted to be nearing completion with my first project before I did so. When one is starting up an endeavor such as "V Scale Creations", the term "vaporware" is a dreaded tag to be associated with. Early on, conversations with some existing payware vendors endorsed such a subdued approach.Thus, I have sounded no trumpets, or other fanfare, to prematurely proclaim my intent. Instead, as I push to get this project closer to completion, there have been some very long hours of work invested along with many frustrations as I try to develop methods to portray what I want to accomplish. Along the way, I have posted some screen pics.Now that "finished" is FINALLY getting within striking distance, I have begun to reveal more information as to the effort, as well as begun to place a sig on my posts, sponsor promotions, and such, that associate my effort with commercial ventures. Hopefully, this phase is working, for you, at least, have made the connection. Certainly no intent of mine to decieve or mislead, but it WAS my intent to wait until I was weeks away from release (instead of months) before I launch a website and other "official" types of things. Thus, I chose to ease into this along the way as my first project got closer to completion.Perhaps in some ways, one can't "win" regardless of the approach. To wit:Announce too early (and the project is delayed): Cries of despair, flaming, or claims of outright fraud can occur. Try to wait until nearer completion: Claims of sneek attacks, deception, etc, can occur. So you want to become a payware vendor, eh? Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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Let me follow up Andre's thoughts in reference to Vaporware with my own experience. When you do a payware route, you are taking on an enormous amount of work and extra learning you wish you didn't have to do. You've all heard us sing the blues as route designers doing payware we have to create all the objects. But there's also the expensive licensing fees, domain fees, and whatever else fees that you have to bear individually upfront. Then there's learning all the different programs from paint programs to html editors too. Most of the learning hits you up front so you aren't only route building but learning as you go. Considering vaporware has been a sore issue here the last thing you want to do for your own reputation sake is make announcements too far in advance. You don't really know if you'll ever release a payware route unless you are getting pretty close to finishing it and then comes the setting up the commerce and packaging parts which is just as important as the route. For a first timer, like Andre, railroader (past) and pastor by trade, and not especially computer literate like I am, he's having to grope through many dark halls. By no means has any payware vendor a gauge to know how well a route will do. If the end of it all doesn't add up to make the process and expense worth it, these routes simply can't get done. Andre's route appears to be a combination of photorealistic textures and handrawn. And consider that for most people starting a route albeit payware, as for as I can remember, nobody has done one with so little going for him. When I started mine, I had tons of advantages, assets, research, and whatnots that helped me along the way and not to mention my own experience with computers which is quite alot. None of this is meant to be said to invoke sympathy by the way. My only point is within the context of vaporware, anyone is going to be very reluctant, especially considering how far Andre has to come to accomplish it, to announce prematurely details of acquistion and purchase. As far as any of us know, there is no Vscale Creations website, purchasing option page, etc because there's nothing there except empty space. A payware route designer's goal should be first and foremost the enjoyment of completing the route. After awhile we will all know Andre to be Vscale so confusion like this won't reoccur. Remembering in every post to include all possible information to forewarn or inform like a contractual agreement is adding burden to which at this point, he probably still can't guarantee will even make it to market. *gulp* But hasn't it been fun to watch this route grow? Sure has. I for one would like to see this route continue and make it to market as I enjoy all aspects and eras of railroading. A true steam route meant for steam. A nice change of pace. Rich GarberP.S. This was not aimed at Icy or anybody else, just a general broadcast of agreement with Andre's remarks.

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Andre & Rich: I am in full agreement with you gents, And I hope Andre's route is a success, The reason I pointed out what I did though is because upsetting the masses that serve as your very customers is not good for business, But as Andre also said, It's a no win situation, Starting a payware firm for the first time is a very flaky processP.S. Andre, you have my support

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 02:22 PM (EST)

Mine too, Andre.. Count one me as a sale

Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas
I Support MSTS IRC Chat. http://chat.dtimsts.vze.com
Member #3, Trainorders Refugee Association - http://evans.railfan.net/TORA.htm

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"Mine too, Andre.. Count one me as a sale " And I thank you kindly for your support. If you have any further questions, simply call BR 549*.Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!* If you've ever watched Hee Haw reruns before... you ought to get that.

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>If you have any further questions, simply call BR 549*. Bless you Junior Samples, wherever you are.And no, I didn't watch the re-runs. I used to watch 'em when they was new. "I'm a pickin'""And I'm a grinnin'"--
Dave Mikulec (former Charter Member)"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 10:24 PM (EST)

There may have been some that are and/or still are sore about the engines being payware when they are released, but I receive emails from people I have never heard of asking when they will be released and that they do not care how much it costs they will be first in line. So far the ones that are willing to pay out weigh the ones who are sore. Regards,
Erik Pierson
Sacramento, Cawww.sacramentolocomotiveworks.com

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I really enjoy research. I've been having almost as much fun digging up information on the old Nickel Plate Road as I have building the route. And there's a lot more information on-line than I expected to find. It's made my route building task that much more enjoyable, knowing what the prototype looked like and being able to compare it to what I've done in the sim. --
Dave Mikulec (former Charter Member)"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
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Dave:Neat the way you're capturing the feel of that prototype pic. I'm fortunate in that I have some scenes on the North Arkansas that I can do that with. However, the pictorial info on that line is so sparse I've definitely had to improvise along the way.Speaking of delays (referenced in a post above)...After extensive testing (switching) in/around the Berryville loop area, I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that my work-around(s) for the reverse loop won't... work-around that is. Thus, as another concession to MSTS, I am going to have to replace the loop with a wye. Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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Well since this is Arkansas is there any chance of the line running through Little Rock, Ark. to Texarkana, Ark./Tex.?-MattATSF GP60M #104 works on the local in Flagstaff, AZ.

3 votes in the ATSF Contest.

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"Well since this is Arkansas is there any chance of the line running through Little Rock, Ark. to Texarkana, Ark./Tex.?"AGHHHH!!! It's a biggun 'Lizabeth! (Grabs chest and falls to the floor.)Whew... okay... now that I'm concious again.(Clamors back up to the chair and begins to type...)Whoo boy... I've been workin my hiney off for the past six months just to get 33 miles out the door. Ummm.... lemmee see... from Berryville to Little Rock... uh... maybe another 120 miles... LR to Texarkanna... another 100 or so? Total new mileage: 220 miles. 33 miles = 6 months. So, 220 divided by 6 would be... 36.7.Hm. Mind waiting about 3 1/2 years for it? Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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>Neat the way you're capturing the feel of that prototype
>pic.That's my biggest goal for the route, to capture the feel of the prototype. As much as my abilities and the limits of MSTS will allow.> I'm fortunate in that I have some scenes on the North
>Arkansas that I can do that with. However, the pictorial
>info on that line is so sparse I've definitely had to
>improvise along the way.Something I was meanin' to ask ... how long did the real N.A. survive?

>Thus, as another concession to MSTS, I am going to have to
>replace the loop with a wye. Oh for a working turntable ... --
Dave Mikulec (former Charter Member)"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/m/dmikulec/OSES/index.html

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"Something I was meanin' to ask ... how long did the real N.A. survive?"What a long and winding road the North Arkansas traveled. In a nutshell:1882-1899; Eureka Springs Railroad. Operated 18 miles of track between Seligman, Mo, and Eureka Springs, Ark.1900-1905; St. Louis & North Arkansas. New entity formed to expand eastward from Eureka Springs eventually to reach West Helena, Ark. (This is the period I'm modeling.)1906-1934; Missouri & North Arkansas. Reorganized and completed from Seligman, Mo. to West Helena, Ark. Also used trackage rights and built new track from Seligman to Joplin, Mo. Thus in 1909 the full system of the North Arkansas begins to operate.1935-1946; Missouri & Arkansas. Reorganized again and continued to operate until after the WW2 years. Heavy tonnage was moved during WW2. Unfortunately, the Operating Ratio soared completely out of sight, thus the entire line shut down in 1946. As the war effort drew to a close, dieselization was considered. In 1945 Alco proposed to replace their entire fleet of aging steamers with 10 RS-1's. Didn't happen.1950-1961; Arkansas & Ozarks. Largest segment to revive and attempt continued operation was the segment of line from Seligman, Mo, to Harrison, Ark., including the Eureka Springs and Berryville branches. Used two GE70 tonners for power.Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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Wow ... long and rich history indeed. Don't suppose there's anything left of it now other than a weed grown path.--
Dave Mikulec (former Charter Member)"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/m/dmikulec/OSES/index.html

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"Don't suppose there's anything left of it now other than a weed grown path." Actually, a remnant in the form of a tourist line operates on the former roadbed between Eureka Springs and Junction, a distance of about 2 miles. During the 80's, it was quite a going concern. However the operation has been on the descent for the past several years and may not survive much longer. Roadbed is evident in many places if you know where to look, but in the larger (now) towns along the way, it's nigh impossible to find even traces. Some depots have been saved, though. Eureka Springs and Marshall (AR) come to mind.Well, all for now.Andre Ming

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