Metra Bilevels Revisited

After a long night of hard work, I finally got around to remaking my Metra cars. They arent totally done yet, but they are getting close. Those corrugations on the sides are in the model, not in the textures. The differnce is clearly visible from the last version. What do you think?-NickCentral Illinois Locomotive Works Founder
CILW's Web Site is http://home.insightbb.com/~rkelsey/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

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RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, asamtrak911, Nov-28-04, 02:10 PM, (1) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, oakwaysd60, Nov-28-04, 02:14 PM, (2) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, asamtrak911, Nov-28-04, 02:30 PM, (3) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, oakwaysd60, Nov-28-04, 03:17 PM, (4) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Nov-28-04, 04:05 PM, (5) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, USRailFan, Nov-29-04, 01:59 AM, (6) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Nov-29-04, 07:21 AM, (7) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, oakwaysd60, Nov-29-04, 04:44 PM, (8) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Nov-29-04, 04:49 PM, (9) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, runaway_b_unit, Nov-29-04, 07:10 PM, (10) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, chosenfrozen44, Nov-29-04, 10:11 PM, (11) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, BNSF4999, Nov-30-04, 08:24 PM, (12) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Dec-02-04, 09:20 PM, (13) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, McCloud_River_John, Dec-03-04, 02:16 AM, (14) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Dec-03-04, 07:28 AM, (15) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, oakwaysd60, Dec-04-04, 11:28 AM, (16) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, Jonatan, Dec-04-04, 12:21 PM, (17) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, asamtrak911, Dec-04-04, 12:31 PM, (18) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Dec-04-04, 12:45 PM, (19) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, USRailFan, Dec-04-04, 02:00 PM, (20) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, runaway_b_unit, Dec-04-04, 02:05 PM, (21) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, oakwaysd60, Dec-04-04, 06:34 PM, (22) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Dec-04-04, 07:21 PM, (23) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, BNSF4999, Dec-06-04, 02:49 PM, (24) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Dec-06-04, 04:25 PM, (25) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, runaway_b_unit, Dec-06-04, 07:11 PM, (26) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Dec-07-04, 07:22 PM, (27) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, Ironhorse2k4, Dec-09-04, 11:12 PM, (28) RE: Metra Bilevels Revisited, NW 1218, Dec-10-04, 07:21 AM, (29)

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No offense, but building corrugations/fluting into the model is a HUGE waste of polys unless they're really that prominent on the surface. It's very easy to draw convincing corrugations on the textures, and they usually look better in the sim because they get anti-aliased more. Do a search for "stainless steel" in this forum and in the reskinning forum to find a topic from a few months ago on texturing. There are some sample pictures that might help you, or drop me a message if you need an explanation of how I did the fluting shown there.Alex Stroshane
http://www.trainweb.org/asamtrak911

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ACtually, it only adds 150 extra polys to it, and there is a big difference. I have tried drawing them but they came out terrible.-NickCentral Illinois Locomotive Works Founder
CILW's Web Site is http://home.insightbb.com/~rkelsey/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-04 AT 02:33 PM (EST)

Have a look here:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID5/8116.htmlMy point was that regardless of how many polys it actually adds, you simply don't need to be using them. You'll need to texture them anyway, and if you study photos of stainless steel fluting you'll see that there's a lot of subtle shading that gives it the distinctive look. Drawing the textures is easy, just add the highlights and shadows using different shades of gray. You can either make a gradient fill from dark to light, or draw the gradient by hand the way I do. The strength of the highlights and shadows will determine how deep the corrugations look, and whether they are rounded or flat. Like I said, you have to texture them anyway, so having the modeled corrugations is just redundant.Some examples of models using this technique are the NALW Amfleets and AEM-7s, and also the Pacific Surfliner F59PHIs and bi-levels. If you don't have them, look at screenshots on the Facing Point website.Also, it's important to use good textures for the smooth areas of your model. Like I said, do a search and look at some of the resulting topics for suggestions. The key is using vertical gradients, since stainless steel is never going to be uniform in color.Edit: you should also work on the polygon smoothing of the main body. I realize it's difficult in TSM, but there shouldn't be smoothing on the ends of the car. It's making them look oddly round even though they should be flat. If necessary you might have to detach the ends into a separate part so they won't get smoothed as part of the body.Alex
http://www.trainweb.org/asamtrak911

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I didn't mention the other reason I did that. When I map the top, it comes out mapping the whole body. Heres a few more screens. I will work on he smoothing next.-NickCentral Illinois Locomotive Works Founder
CILW's Web Site is http://home.insightbb.com/~rkelsey/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

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Hey Nick. They look awesome for a restart. The Metra sign is in thwe wrong place and the mirrors in-front of the cab windows need to be moved up. IM me and we'll work on it.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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Looking awesome. Although for cars as good-looking as that, transparent windows and visible interior is almost a must....

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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Alinging of the textures on the left side also needs to happen. Note how they are not to the same level as on the right side of the car.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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Here are a few more.-NickCentral Illinois Locomotive Works Founder
CILW's Web Site is http://home.insightbb.com/~rkelsey/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

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Okay, now do the same with the right side. Align the windows with the mirror.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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Those bilevels look awesome, and the actual corrugations on the car do look more realistic. The trucks (bogies) look a little low, and the coupler looks oversized and goes through the door. Anyway they would look good leading a train with stainless or Pullman commuter cars.

C h r i s

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not a bad job at all........gettin better all the time!CG

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ok...ok...
being a local metra fan and nitpicker, heres what i think you could use some work on.
The stripes on the front are not even. the red and white are the same diameter. the light housings should be a bit bigger. For the trucks, why dont you just model them as solids and use a photo for them instead of tryin to model the details. The cowcatcher thing needs a lot of work. the coupler needs to be moved lower and reduced in size. the textures (metra name) needs adjusting. also, were gonna need a horn on a good note- the fluting looks really good. they look much better than your original cars. much better. if you adjusted only the trucks and cowcatcher, it would look way better. there are tons of metra car pics on the internet. tons! use them to your advantage for details etc.
keep posting updates. If you need a working cabview, let me know and I'll see what I can throw together.keep it up and dont get discouraged!
Kevin V.
-President/CEO of Illinois Northern Ry Inc, subsidiary of The Midwest Regional Railways Corp.Illinois Railway Museum Conductor Trainee

Ohio Southern is on the way...coming when I get sick of the IN!

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Hey all. Just an update. I have been working very closely with Nick on this one because, quite honestly, i would like a decent set of Metra cars. We have a set agenda of things we are going to work on. When we get online and to work, things get better all the time. Hopefully he will see this and he will post a shot of the cars with the progress we have made. It is rather remarkable.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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Thanks John, they will be a very nice addition.

"Cascade Green Forever"

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No problem. To add on to what I said, let me tell you guys what we did: we corrected window positioning and completely redid the area around the snow-plow adding the two step-ladders along with the addition of the MU cables and and HEP boxes under the from in the front of the car. A K3LA horn with all bells forward has been added in addidtion to the bars that go over the horn to protect it. The coupler has also been resized and recentered. ALso, the trucks have been completely redone.
What we still have planned to do is this:
1. Reworking the cab area of the car.
2. Redoing the underbody.
3. Adding necessary roof detail.
4. Working on other misc. things.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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Well, John said it for me, but heres the pics,-NickCentral Illinois Locomotive Works Founder
CILW's Web Site is http://home.insightbb.com/~rkelsey/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

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Hey cool! I might get those. =)/JonatanSteam rules!

Train gifs from Dans Railroad Gif RoundhouseNever trust computers. If you do, they will betray you.I'm the steam freak, ph34r me!!

My E-mail jonatan.gronoset@telia.com

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Something you might want to try is drawing circular shadows on the textures for the cab front at the locations of the lights. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a circle in a slightly darker color (try using the Multiply layer blending mode if your paint program has it) that's a tiny bit bigger than the light itself. This has the effect of making the lights look like they're actually attached to the surface, not just floating there.Alex Stroshane
http://www.trainweb.org/asamtrak911

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-04 AT 01:01 PM (EST)

Actually, the headlights (MARS and main headlight) need to be pushed into the car. After we fix the diaphram around the door, the headlights are next.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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What about transparent windows?

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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They look excellent so far! Keep it up.

C h r i s

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Well, me and John have worked long hours today and this is what we came up with. -NickCentral Illinois Locomotive Works Founder
CILW's Web Site is http://home.insightbb.com/~rkelsey/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-04 AT 07:23 PM (EST)

Hmm, lighting. I don't think we will be doing transparent windows because during the day, you can't see into the Metra cars by looking through the windows due to the tiniting. Thanks all for your kind words. It gets better and better every time me and Nick hook up.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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Well, while they do look much better, the cars when viewed from the front look off. Either too fat or too short...they just dont look right. Also, the engineer's and fireman's windows look a little too rectangular...I think they should go down just a tinge further.
Also, texture the rear face of the pilots so they arent stark white/grey like in the pics...the underframe looks like it could use a little more detail. The horn looks really good....the textures look good too. And yes, John is right, on this series of cars the lights are actually flush with the end of the car.
Keep up the good work.Kevin V.
-President/CEO of Illinois Northern Ry Inc, subsidiary of The Midwest Regional Railways Corp.Illinois Railway Museum Conductor Trainee

Ohio Southern is on the way...coming when I get sick of the IN!

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I have major plans for the underbody of the car. The front of the car can use those suggestions. The dimensions of the car are correct. We used official pullman length, width, and height measurements. All of the Metra cars are the same when it comes to length, width, and height.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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I see some major improvements in that last set of pics. However, there are still some errors. The class lights and ditch lights look like they are disappearing in some pics. The rectangle structure on each end of the cars should be removed and there should be ladder steps. The windows on each side appear to be unaligned, at different heights and the top windows aren't lined up with the bottom, I can't really tell. Also the side cab windows may be too stretched out, they should be shorter. I would like to see some side shots.

C h r i s

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Yes, the windows do need to be leveled out. We had a failure before and had to do all of our work again. This was about a week ago and we had added step ladders but we lost those. Thanks for pointing that out. The lighting thing, I don't know. That happens in my game and I don't know why. All of my Trainartisan engines have this problem. So do some of my MLT engines. Also, the sign on the side of the car needs to be fixed. I will try and get some side shots of the car. Remember, major underbody work needs to happen before this car can be released.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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WOW THOSE ARE SWEET MAN!!!will you consider doing the metra electics that run on the former Illinois Central commuter line? and give em thier old orange and black paint jobs?

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Possibly. The Metra stuff is on temporary hold as we try and smooth out these issues with the GP60B.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim
www.blueridgerails.com

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