You ever seen this train ?

LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 04:27 PM (EDT)

Sad that I can't release this one, I bet many would want these locos...
Do you like it ?
I don't think Coke, Chevrolet and the IOC will let me release it, so it gotta stay on my HD... Sorry guys...Jay-C

17 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jay-C ----

-- "Power for You" --

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RE: You ever seen this train ?, RAILDOG, Sep-04-03, 04:39 PM, (1) RE: You ever seen this train ?, delamaize, Sep-04-03, 04:45 PM, (2) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ssw, Sep-04-03, 05:00 PM, (3) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-04-03, 05:10 PM, (4) RE: You ever seen this train ?, JensChris, Sep-04-03, 05:11 PM, (5) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-04-03, 05:26 PM, (6) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Macster, Sep-04-03, 05:28 PM, (7) RE: You ever seen this train ?, BNSF4723, Sep-04-03, 05:55 PM, (8) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Cell0518, Sep-04-03, 06:47 PM, (9) RE: You ever seen this train ?, CGW409, Sep-04-03, 07:07 PM, (10) RE: You ever seen this train ?, chucksc, Sep-04-03, 09:45 PM, (20) RE: You ever seen this train ?, CGW409, Sep-05-03, 06:23 PM, (55) Regarding release of an olympic trainset ...( FYI info, TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-04-03, 08:13 PM, (12) RE: You ever seen this train ?, andrewpickell, Sep-04-03, 08:10 PM, (11) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-04-03, 08:28 PM, (13) RE: You ever seen this train ?, TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-04-03, 08:34 PM, (14) RE: You ever seen this train ?, andrewpickell, Sep-04-03, 09:39 PM, (19) RE: You ever seen this train ?, chucksc, Sep-04-03, 10:20 PM, (26) RE: You ever seen this train ?, NW_611, Sep-05-03, 12:38 PM, (47) RE: You ever seen this train ?, sd70mac666, Sep-04-03, 08:36 PM, (15) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-04-03, 08:51 PM, (16) RE: You ever seen this train ?, andrewpickell, Sep-04-03, 09:48 PM, (21) RE: You ever seen this train ?, chucksc, Sep-04-03, 11:07 PM, (31) RE: You ever seen this train ?, imprezzed, Sep-07-03, 02:01 PM, (83) RE: You ever seen this train ?, xgsft, Sep-06-03, 01:27 PM, (66) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-08-03, 01:34 AM, (88) RE: You ever seen this train ?, stationmaster, Sep-04-03, 09:55 PM, (22) RE: You ever seen this train ?, chucksc, Sep-04-03, 10:13 PM, (24) RE: You ever seen this train ?, cn_bayview, Sep-04-03, 10:38 PM, (28) RE: You ever seen this train ?, chucksc, Sep-04-03, 10:59 PM, (30) RE: You ever seen this train ?, tcain1, Sep-04-03, 10:27 PM, (27) That's it, I've had it with this palce.., HAC, Sep-04-03, 10:40 PM, (29) RE: You ever seen this train ?, heffed, Sep-04-03, 11:28 PM, (33) RE: You ever seen this train ?, CPR_Malice_96th, Sep-05-03, 00:53 AM, (38) RE: You ever seen this train ?, CRSD40, Sep-05-03, 12:24 PM, (45) RE: You ever seen this train ?, GrizzlyBear, Sep-04-03, 09:23 PM, (17) RE: You ever seen this train ?, cn_bayview, Sep-04-03, 09:30 PM, (18) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ALIAS, Sep-05-03, 09:31 AM, (44) WAY blown out of proportion.........., TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-04-03, 11:26 PM, (32) RE: WAY blown out of proportion.........., smp11512, Sep-04-03, 11:48 PM, (35) RE: WAY blown out of proportion.........., TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-05-03, 01:26 AM, (41) RE: WAY blown out of proportion.........., JensChris, Sep-05-03, 05:53 AM, (42) RE: You ever seen this train ?, TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-04-03, 11:40 PM, (34) RE: You ever seen this train ?, heffed, Sep-05-03, 00:11 AM, (36) RE: You ever seen this train ?, dispatcher618, Sep-04-03, 10:06 PM, (23) RE: You ever seen this train ?, heffed, Sep-04-03, 10:13 PM, (25) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ace6879, Sep-05-03, 00:21 AM, (37) RE: You ever seen this train ?, CPR_Malice_96th, Sep-05-03, 01:02 AM, (39) RE: You ever seen this train ?, shadowr434, Sep-06-03, 00:09 AM, (59) RE: You ever seen this train ?, xgsft, Sep-06-03, 01:38 PM, (67) RE: You ever seen this train ?, deejay1020, Sep-05-03, 01:25 AM, (40) RE: You ever seen this train ?, sd70mac666, Sep-05-03, 06:42 AM, (43) RE: You ever seen this train ?, xgsft, Sep-06-03, 04:12 PM, (69) RE: You ever seen this train ?, csxt602, Sep-05-03, 12:35 PM, (46) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Macster, Sep-05-03, 01:25 PM, (48) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ace6879, Sep-05-03, 03:05 PM, (49) RE: You ever seen this train ?, jhilden, Sep-05-03, 04:24 PM, (50) RE: You ever seen this train ?, BNSF4723, Sep-05-03, 05:06 PM, (51) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ace6879, Sep-05-03, 05:27 PM, (52) RE: You ever seen this train ?, BNSF4723, Sep-05-03, 05:32 PM, (53) RE: You ever seen this train ?, FireDragonLightning, Sep-05-03, 08:55 PM, (58) RE: You ever seen this train ?, BN_9402, Sep-06-03, 01:37 AM, (61) RE: You ever seen this train ?, FireDragonLightning, Sep-06-03, 08:30 AM, (63) RE: You ever seen this train ?, kevarc, Sep-05-03, 05:37 PM, (54) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ace6879, Sep-05-03, 07:48 PM, (56) Olympic Railroading, dispatcher618, Sep-06-03, 02:21 AM, (62) RE: You ever seen this train ?, SD80MAC, Sep-05-03, 07:59 PM, (57) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-06-03, 00:20 AM, (60) RE: You ever seen this train ?, NW 1218, Sep-06-03, 10:24 AM, (64) RE: You ever seen this train ?, JensChris, Sep-06-03, 03:37 PM, (68) RE: You ever seen this train ?, sawblade5, Sep-06-03, 07:17 PM, (70) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ace6879, Sep-06-03, 07:46 PM, (71) RE: You ever seen this train ?, IcyFire, Sep-06-03, 08:24 PM, (72) RE: You ever seen this train ?, chucksc, Sep-06-03, 09:37 PM, (73) RE: You ever seen this train ?, DualFlag2, Sep-06-03, 10:56 PM, (74) RE: You ever seen this train ?, ace6879, Sep-07-03, 00:11 AM, (75) RE: You ever seen this train ?, BN_9402, Sep-07-03, 00:52 AM, (76) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-07-03, 00:57 AM, (77) RE: You ever seen this train ?, sd70mac666, Sep-07-03, 08:30 AM, (78) RE: You ever seen this train ?, kenya, Sep-07-03, 11:00 AM, (79) RE: You ever seen this train ?, sd70mac666, Sep-07-03, 11:40 AM, (80) RE: You ever seen this train ?, RSD 12, Sep-07-03, 12:03 PM, (81) RE: You ever seen this train ?, rdamon, Sep-07-03, 10:28 PM, (86) RE: You ever seen this train ?, xgsft, Sep-07-03, 11:28 PM, (87) RE: You ever seen this train ?, CGW409, Sep-08-03, 06:46 PM, (95) RE: You ever seen this train ?, DualFlag2, Sep-07-03, 01:40 PM, (82) RE: You ever seen this train ?, smp11512, Sep-07-03, 03:33 PM, (84) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Thunderbolt3985, Sep-07-03, 09:35 PM, (85) RE: You ever seen this train ?, JensChris, Sep-08-03, 05:15 AM, (89) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Claude350, Sep-08-03, 01:09 PM, (90) RE: You ever seen this train ?, JensChris, Sep-08-03, 02:04 PM, (91) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Claude350, Sep-08-03, 05:23 PM, (93) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Thunderbolt3985, Sep-08-03, 05:56 PM, (94) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Claude350, Sep-09-03, 08:29 AM, (96) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Thunderbolt3985, Sep-09-03, 05:28 PM, (97) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Claude350, Sep-09-03, 08:46 PM, (98) RE: You ever seen this train ?, Thunderbolt3985, Sep-08-03, 03:00 PM, (92) RE: You ever seen this train ?, sd70mac666, Sep-10-03, 09:26 AM, (99) RE: You ever seen this train ?, theduke_490, Sep-13-03, 06:33 PM, (100) RE: You ever seen this train ?, nscaler73, Sep-15-03, 08:16 AM, (101) RE: You ever seen this train ?, hdpayne, Sep-16-03, 03:55 PM, (102)

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Too bad I would love to havemJeremy Smith West Plains,MO
BNSF Engineer (In Training)

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those look great J-C! I would defantly D/L it if givin the chance.

Delamaize
"Long Live High Speed Rail In The USA"
--Calling for removal of the immature little children--

Head Locomotive Builder Extraordinaire

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J-C... You could always try! Have you emailed or corresponded with UP, Coke and the IOC? That artwork that you have recreated is of such quality that they might at least consider it.

Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

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JensChris Check your PM boxSouthern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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Well... UP would 99% allow it...
I didn't try the other ones yet but I don't have any mail address either...
Someone have some ?Jay-C

17 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jay-C ----

-- "Power for You" --

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>Well... UP would 99% allow it...
>I didn't try the other ones yet but I don't have any mail
>address either...
>Someone have some ?
>
>Jay-C
>
>
>
>17 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and
>repainter
>
>---- Jay-C ----
>
>-- "Power for You" --
>
I e-mailed Coke and I am waiting for a response but I think you would have most trouble with IOCSouthern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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yeah, it would be a real pity of they wouldn't release it.. JC did one hell of a job on the critters...

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

--Power For You--

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f57ae563485ba63.jpg

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f57ae6334b02b00.jpg

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f57ae6f34d751ff.jpg

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Err, wait wait wait.... so whats the diff between him sending it to other NALW members and him uploading it? I really don't see any except that he'd be getting more people to download.

Looks Like a Pony RUNS LIKE A STALLION

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Well, I don't know, but I want it..

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BNSF
It has to with mass distribution,UP has come to their senses on freeware and would probaly not have a problem,Coke as well probably no problem,The IOC on the other hand is extremely anal to this regard and regardless of quality would most likely slap Jens with a C&D so fast his head would spin.
The IOC however can't do jack squat if Jens skins one up for his own use and emails a copy or two to friendsGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 09:46 PM (EDT)

"It has to with mass distribution,UP has come to their senses on freeware and would probaly not have a problem,Coke as well probably no problem,The IOC on the other hand is extremely anal to this regard and regardless of quality would most likely slap Jens with a C&D so fast his head would spin.
The IOC however can't do jack squat if Jens skins one up for his own use and emails a copy or two to friends "Actually We (NALW) are a UP Licensee and have been for a while! We are still waiting for Ms.Mainwaring to update the webpage. But I have the signed and executed agreement between us right here in our files.As far as Coke and the USOC are concerned we have not approached them yet. In fact we are still discussing this model among ourselves and how best to approach USOC and Coke.... If we don't get permission then the repaint will not be released to the general public.Unlike some other organizations we follow the rules and last I checked Bluebeard wasn't on our membership rolls. Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Chuck
My apologies if I implied that you,Jens or any of the NALW gang would do anything not 100% above board and on the up and up.
By reffering to UP coming to their senses, I meant the free licence to freeware folk as opposed to the original UP stance of "we don't want freeware avalible at all".
My main reason for the original post was a quick and dirty explination to BNSF as to why there was some limited distribution of the locos as opposed to just uploading to the FL.Gary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 08:22 PM (EDT)

WOW, your repainting skills have mae a HUGE leap. those are right on compared to photos i've seen. as far as releasing goes, the UP won't care, it's the USOC. I think you guys are liscensed with UP are far as that goes and if you mention that to the USOC, you MAY be able to release it. Since you have the trains done, you may be able to release them. i inquired about that about a year ago and the PR lady there was VERY rude and b***hy. Maybe they have changed thier PR management. Coke and Chevy don't really care, there are both coke and chevy cars in the F/l here and they are doing just fine, have been there for a while. The hurdle you have to clear is the USOC, and from what it sounds like when i talked to the lady, they have no clue this arena of "media" portraying olympic logos even exists. People were all up tight about the UP and constuitent railroads and as far as freeware goes, we seem to be fine as there have been many recent uploads from people who paint and upload repaints cause they like to, not for the money. now if you did a livery poking fun at UP, that would probably warrant them getting at you. but if they were really stringent, none of the stuff in the f/l that is UP or relates to UP would be there. I'm sure as long as you didn't make a huge deal out of these trains, (which no one here has to done get a corporations' attention) uploading it would be fine.HOWEVER i think actually, based upon this document, you can upload it without contacting them AS LONG AS YOU PROVIDE A DISCLAIMER
To prevent violations of the Olympic and Amateur Sports Act, 36 U.S.C. § 220506 and the Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1055, the United States Olympic Committee ("USOC") is providing the public with the following Web Site Policy Statement. The USOC is publishing this Policy Statement in order to protect the public from being subjected to web sites that falsely represent or suggest a connection or association with, or the authorization by, the USOC, the International Olympic Committee ("IOC"), or the International Paralympic Committee ("IPC"). The USOC opposes the use (except by Olympic Sponsors, Suppliers, and Licensees) on commercial web sites, including web sites linked to commercial web sites, of Olympic Symbols, such as the 5 Interlocking Rings Design or the symbols of an Olympic venue; e.g., Salt Lake City 2002 Winter Games; and/or Olympic terminology, such as use of the words "Olympic," "Olympiad" and "Olympian," or combinations or simulations of Olympic terminology. The USOC opposes the use on commercial and non-commercial web sites (except by Olympic Sponsors, Suppliers, and Licensees) of any trademark, service mark, trade name, sign, symbols or insignia that falsely represents or suggests a connection or association with, or authorization by, the USOC, the IOC, or the IPC. *************read below, this applies to you mostly**********The USOC requires the use of a disclaimer on non-commercial web sites that have Olympic content, (including, but not limited to, web sites that provide information on Olympic history), to prevent the possibility of any false connection or association with, or implied authorization by, the USOC, the IOC, or the IPC. since you are a non-commercial site (i.e. don't make any money off your work) you can release it AS LONG AS you provide a disclaimer saying you are in no way respresnting the IOC, USOC or olympics in any way,you should be great to goI think after reading this i find that the USOC doesn't mind olympic stuff available as long as it's accurrate and represents them in a positive way, which yours definitely does.
one more question JC, you plan to do the torch car and matching cars as well?btw if you still dont feel comfortable releasing it even with what i showed you above, e-mail them at media@usoc.organd make sure to send photos of your work and that you are NOT a commercial website.
Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter http://www.cascadenscale.org/Evergreen/tsdm.htm

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Jens-Chris, NALW, and the MSTS community,I find that this is an extremely poor choice for a repaint. It is clear that NALW does not possess the proper license to produce items containing the Olympic trademarks protected by statute (36 U.S.C. 380(c)), yet the repaint is complete and illegal distribution is sure to follow. Producing and distributing this repaint, without holding a license from the IOC and USOC is illegal, and the development of such a repaint without proper premissions is against many of the fundamental principles of the Olympic Charter.I would like NALW to take it upon themselves to delete this repaint or put it into storage until proper licensing is obtained from the IOC and USOC. For a group such as NALW, which has it's own licensing agreements to protect it's intellectual property, NALW should respect the IOC and USOC's copyright.Also, to any other who have obtained this repaint, please support the Olympic movement and it's values of fair play and the educational value of good example and respect for fundamental ethical principles by deleting this repaint from your computers.The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practised without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.Thank you,Andrew Pickell

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I think it is a very nice repaint and I think that its up to Jens-Chris and the Folks at NALW to decide what they want to do with it Southern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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well there is a very fine line and legal loophole into which they COULD release that trainset, if they don't follow in concisely, they CAN, not definitely but CAN get into toruble. you may want to read most post above on this stuff, BTW i hate stingy logo copyrights, but sometimes you have to be VERY careful when releasing things...... though if it were payware i think it would be VERY subject to scrutiny and they would NOT be allowed to release it if it were payware if they didn't have the proper liscenses. but since it is freeware and they are a non-commercial website, they can more than likely release the trainset without any reprocussion
Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter http://www.cascadenscale.org/Evergreen/tsdm.htm

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Here is a legal precedence of the IOC and it's National Committee's pursuit of even freeware developers, although it is from Australia.In the Federal Court case of Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games v Pam Clarke last year, the defendant had produced and distributed free t-shirts on behalf of Animal Liberation Tasmania. The t-shirts carried a design ‘depicting a hen in a cage with five eggs’, which, SOCOG alleged, infringed copyright in their Sydney 2000 logo. SOCOG does not always prosecute parodies of their logos: for example the Mambo t-shirt design, ‘It Looks Like a Chook to Me’. However, in Pam Clarke’s case, SOCOG sought and obtained an injunction restraining any further reproduction or sale of the design, and delivery up of all the remaining t-shirts. The fact that the t-shirts were distributed free for ‘donations’ was not a defence.Art & The Olympics by Sally McCausland, published in Art+Law, issue 99.4, December 1999I'm not sure how USOC would handle this, as it would be in a different court system, but I'm sure the IOC would react in a similiar fashion and seek similiar restraints.- Andrew

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 10:21 PM (EDT)

Andrew You are so full of poop your eyes must be brown!FWIW, An Australian court's findings have no bearing here.
I'm surprised you couldn't find a precedent closer to home, say on the North American Continent at least.Neither NALW nor the USOC are Australian entities and since any distribution we do is through a US site they would have to come at us through the US courts since they are the only ones who would have primary jurisdiction in this case. However, since we don't distribute unlicensed models this whole discussion is moot anyway...If we distribute it, it will be 100% legal!
If it isn't we won't! Period, end of story!IMO, you need to go back to tree hugging since law is obviously not your strong suit.Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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OK, a couple of quick points while I'm sitting idle:1. Although I agree with Chuck that Australian law and precedent is unlikely to be applied with anyforce in American courts, there's always the off chance that IOC could find some way to drag NALW or whoever into some international forum, where the choice of law could be really up in the air. I don't know if the IOC could give marching orders to the USOC (I'd personally suspect so) but in any event, they'd probably be able to get jurisdiction and favorable law in any event.2. Based solely upon the facts that Mr. Pickell cited from Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games v. Pam Clarke, there's a distinction I'd hammer the daylights out of in any litigation: Animal Liberation Tasmania was "clearly" misappropriating the five rings logo and using it to push their political point of view, which indeed leads to possible consumer confusion or dilution of the IOC mark. Conversely, NALW advocates no position, and seeks only to replicate reality in the manner of an artist. ALT sought donations for its wares, whereas NALW seeks no reimbursementFurthermore, t-shirts are a key component of IOC licensing business. They're already there, and we're very familiar with IOC-licensed apparel. We have no familiarity with an IOC licensing presence in the train simulation software business. Indeed, there is no generally-recognized real-world railroad licensing presence in the train simulation software market, and thus extension of protection in this field is...something or other. I'd have to dance around the UP's program, but I'd definitely yammer on and on about how the Norfolk Southern, Chessie & Seaboard, and scores of Class II & III 'roads just don't care. The fact that the BNSF and Amtrak don't seem to be hostile would also be something to bring up. To make a long story short, I sat down with my intellectual property professor and asked him about the UP's trademarks on predecessor component railroads, and indeed their licensing process. He didn't really think that the UP had much of a leg to stand on, because there couldn't be consumer confusion or the like. Admittedly, we were kicking about theoretical case and possible defenses, but he figured that anyone with deep pockets and a "good" scenario might be able to beat UP in court.None of this should be construed as operational legal advice; there ain't no attempt at establishing an attorney-client relationship. If you want legal advice, go see a member of your local bar.

____________________________________________________________________
Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 08:42 PM (EDT)

Who cares about the USOC. Union Pacific used that and noone bitched about it. if the USOC won't allow NALW to release it, then that's a shame, I think it looks very good. I would say that the primary resposibility falls on Union PacificAnd even if I did download it it would not come off my computer as it would probably be seeing very heavy usage. All my locomotives from NALW see very heavy use. And even if I was ordered to delete it I'd tell them to you know what right off. I say carpe diem and support NALW in releasing this model. This would be a very good topic for a poll but since they are banned, by the public vote, maybe we could get the mods to allow it just this once, for this models sake and see what the public would say. I'm willing to bet that it would be an overwhelming yes to release it.

Dr. Satan

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I agreeSouthern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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>Who cares about the USOC. Union Pacific used that and noone
>bitched about it. if the USOC won't allow NALW to release
>it, then that's a shame, I think it looks very good. I would
>say that the primary resposibility falls on Union Pacific Well if you did some research it would be easy to find out the Union Pacific, Chevy and Coca-Cola received OFFICIAL licenses from the IOC and USOC, which gives them permission to use the Olympic name and likeness. Just like any other company that wishes to the Olympic name or symbol. I've done my research...have you?- Andrew

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Yes I have and they were also Selling products and Services with the USOC and IOC approved emblems on them and advertising such as USOC and IOC approved... All this for real money!
You really need to find a better class of tree to curl up with Andrew! The current one is clogging up your head.Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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It's always good to see people attacking each other, and not the issue.

I wanna highball it through Woodstock, Ont. on none other than...THE TURBOTRAIN!!!

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-03 AT 01:28 PM (EDT)

Exactly. Thank you smp for putting this in a nice way I could use it instead of what I was thinking.

Mike Suitts

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Your welcomeSouthern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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What could pose a greater threat to the IOC and it's values than a few pixels on a simulated locomotive? It might devalue the licensing of their emblem to "The Official Junk Food or the 20xx Olympics(tm)"The question keeps comimg up. If you buy the corporate lawyer line on this, publishing a photograph of the actual units in "Trains" would violate trademarks. We are getting to that point. Even some public buildings are claiming trademark protection of their images. Pretty soon, public photography will be as dead as Cold War Eastern Europe.

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>Jens-Chris, NALW, and the MSTS community,
>
>I find that this is an extremely poor choice for a repaint.
>It is clear that NALW does not possess the proper license to
>produce items containing the Olympic trademarks protected by
>statute (36 U.S.C. 380(c)), yet the repaint is complete and
>illegal distribution is sure to follow. Producing and
>distributing this repaint, without holding a license from
>the IOC and USOC is illegal, and the development of such a
>repaint without proper premissions is against many of the
>fundamental principles of the Olympic Charter.
>
>I would like NALW to take it upon themselves to delete this
>repaint or put it into storage until proper licensing is
>obtained from the IOC and USOC. For a group such as NALW,
>which has it's own licensing agreements to protect it's
>intellectual property, NALW should respect the IOC and
>USOC's copyright.
>
>Also, to any other who have obtained this repaint, please
>support the Olympic movement and it's values of fair play
>and the educational value of good example and respect for
>fundamental ethical principles by deleting this repaint from
>your computers.
>
>The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to
>building a peaceful and better world by educating youth
>through sport practised without discrimination of any kind
>and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual
>understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and
>fair play.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Andrew Pickell
>
>
> Andrew you need to put a sock in it....
Your overbearing pretentious post has really pi$$ed me off now!If you knew how to read and had bothered to read J-C's post you would have realized that J-C acknowledged he did not yet have permission to distribute this repaint/model and that he may never get permission in which case the repaint is null and void. To my knowledge the only place that repaint exists is on J-C's machine! It is clearly not for distribution under any circumstances at this point and in fact the proposal from J-C to do it was only communicated to me this evening subsequent to your post.Your inference that we are doing something unethical or illegal is extremely offensive to us and I believe you us a public apology, Since you posted your thinly veiled accusations in a public forum 3 mins after you e-mailed them to me personally!!!!
I don't know that You personally conduct your business affairs in an unethical and illegal way, but we certainly don't and your assumptions and accusations are completely unwarranted and unfounded!I Guess I didn't respond fast enough to suit your highness since I was framing a reply to your email and I didn't know anything about what J-C had posted or this project. This was originally his personal project for his personal use, not a NALW project. But since I read your snotty, condescending, overbearing and pretentious post I have decided to adopt it and do what ever it takes to get it out the door so I can personally hang it in your ear!Have a nice day! BTW, how do you like your Crow prepared?
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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>To my knowledge the only place that repaint exists is on J-C's machine!<Sorry to interupt.
But if you look at Macsters post.
He has screen shots of them.
So it would be safe to assume that they're on his machine as well.
But they're not out publicly. So it aint no big deal, about laws... *YET*

Rob
Great North Rails

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Yeah and Macster is our Quality Control Guy....
That would be the 1st place J-C would send them, even before showing them to me.........This is now a NALW project!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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I find that this is an extremely poor choice for a repaint. It is clear that NALW does not possess the proper license to produce items containing the Olympic trademarks protected by statute (36 U.S.C. 380(c)), yet the repaint is complete and illegal distribution is sure to follow. Producing and distributing this repaint, without holding a license from the IOC and USOC is illegal, and the development of such a repaint without proper premissions is against many of the fundamental principles of the Olympic Charter.Good thing the IOC doesn't write the laws!! There is nothing wrong with developing the model (repaint) for personal use. Have you heard of the "fair use" statute in copyright law! The problem occurs with distribution! As Chuck has stated, if they don't get permission from the IOC to distribute, this repaint won't see the light of day!! So I wouldn't worry about NALW! They do to the best of their ability abide by copyright law!!

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Can't any of you A$$holes read? These are not for re-dist, JC has the only copy and has said so. JC did these on his own time, and has stated they are not for public dist.

I've had enough of the morons, whiners, simpletons, slackwits, and general idiots here. I can put up with a lot, but I'm getting sick of this stuff.That's it.. I'm gone, someone turn out the lights..HAC

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Errmmm....So Andrew, did you miss the two places his post saying he wouldn't be releasing it? Sheesh... -Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-03 AT 01:11 AM (EDT)

>Thank you,
>
>Andrew Pickell
>
YAWN !!You know Andrew, I honestly thought you were above all of this stuff.Wow !!And people like HAC are leaving this site why ?LaterTim Kent
96th_Malice
" Power for You "

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-03 AT 12:34 PM (EDT)

>The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to
>building a peaceful and better world by educating youth
>through sport practised without discrimination of any kind
>and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual
>understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and
>fair play.
And how exactly does an MSTS repaint stop them from doing that? And how does it go against their values? You are talking like NALW is going to be charging for these repaints. As said before, it's just on JC's computer now is still only a personal work of his.

-----------------------------

Kyle Norek, Milepost 76 on the NS Buffalo Line
MSN Messenger: crsd40@hotmail.com

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Great looking model and textures as always JC. Your SD70 is the best I've seen yet, including payware ones. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Where does the First Amendment fit into all this? Is a digital model, a type of computer image, not considered a form of art, and therefore protected speech? I also find it interesting that in the disclaimer Bill posted, it says that the IOC is OPPOSED to use of its name, etc. seeming to say it would rather not have it used. It does not say the use of it is ILLEGAL. The two terms don't mean the same thing to me. Someone mentioned having this repaint doesn't gel with the "Olympic spirit". Here's some food for thought. Does the IOC only giving licensing rights to priveleged multi-billion dollar corporations fit the "Olympic spirit", or is it blatant hypocrisy?Grizz

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No offence.
But why's everyone in a big uproar about uploading?No mention has been made that it is ready to upload.
Etc.We're all going crazy about something that wont be released for a while yet.So there's TONS of time to investigate into this matter.

Rob
Great North Rails

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>No offence.
>But why's everyone in a big uproar about uploading?
>
>No mention has been made that it is ready to upload.
>Etc. Why don't you run that question past Andrew a couple times !!!He seems to be the ONLY one worried about it

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I still am perplexed that everyone seemed to overlook the legal notice taken RIGHT FROM THE USOC SITE i put in reply 12 in this thread. legally speaking, AND IT SAYS IT IN THIER OWN BYLAWS AND LEGAL NOTICES, that JC uploading his trainset is perfetcly legal occording to non-commercial releasing of olympic items. Since NALW is a non-commercial site, like i said before, AS LONG AS HE PROVIDES A DISCLAIMER, the entire trainset could be released without incedent. people went overly anal about this with UP also. I think people are scared of lawsuits here, but to be perfectly honest, i don't think the coporations give a damn about freeware because there is no money invloved. many UP releated things have been uploaded recently (including some of my own stuff), and it is still there. only a handfull of independents who repaint here actually bothered to get a liscense. Most say "to hell with it" because if UP really did care, each of those repaints would have been subject to lawsuit. the UP liscense thing started nearly 5 MONTHS BEFORE IT WAS EVER EVEN MENTIONED HERE. People are worried about things they should not be be. If these corporations really gave a damn, people would have gotten in trouble with UP LONG AGO. Corporations care about money and royalties, if what's being delt with is free, they really not only have not much control over it, but don't care because they are not making money off it, and even IF it reflects the company badly, no one will care because no one is making money off it. No one here repaints stuff that gives a company bad reps because we LIKE the railroad or company, which is why we do what we do in the first place. People, please calm down about this, YOU ARE GETTING WAY TOO OUT OF LINE FOR SOMETHING THIS UNIMPORTANT. They are only trains, and really there is no legal case here at all because what would be distributed would be done so for free.
I normally don't climb on the soapbox much as i just don't like to get caught up in this, but people here are so mislead with false information or perceptions based upon RUMOR it is annoying. If there was something legally wrong here, the lawyers would have been here a while ago. paranioa gets the to the best of people, but geeze, please have research to back up your claims before you make them, most statements here i have seen about UP are not only COMPLETELY WRONG, but taken way out of context. We are here to have fun and trade repaints, models, etc. Political debates should be let aside, and just enjoy the comraderie here and enjoy what people contribute, no matter how "controversial" it may be. If the author uploads thier work, it is thiers and they can release it if they feel they want to. I have yet to see something out of the NALW stable that was not at least great. If JC's repaint was poking fun at either UP or the IOC/USOC i could understand the argument, but there really is no basis for the arguments against the release of this trainset as they are neither backed up by reseacrch nor are they accurate.....Please lets just enjoy the great work here, and leave the debating to the lawyers and politicains should they decide to (and they most likely WONT) do anything.
p.s. sorry for the "vile language" (d*mn) but i wanted to speak my voice on this as it is getting blown out of proportion and i wanted to set some things straight..... Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter http://www.cascadenscale.org/Evergreen/tsdm.htm

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What do you mean nor are they accurate ? Those have to be to most accurate UP Olympic Units I have ever seen .They could be a bit darker Blue ( Sorry J-C but after seeing one in real thats just what I think ) but they are still the closest thing I have ever seen ( Or made for that matter ) Southern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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i'm not talking about the models or repaints, but about the UP and olympic liscense thing being blown out or proportionHauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter http://www.cascadenscale.org/Evergreen/tsdm.htm

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Thanks for some comment, I'll try to make them a little darker...
Since I never seen them with my own eyes, I can't judge the real color from some pics... Thanks for the input !btw, I could also only send these to my very special friends...that'd be about 4 persons and NALW...and noone else would ever play with it...and nobody would ever care about it...Jay-C

17 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jay-C ----

-- "Power for You" --

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yeah i think it is not only sad but pathetic that the USOC's so called "olympic spirit" deals with multi-billion dollar corporations and freakin marketing. The original founders of the olympics would be sick and disgusted to see what the "olympic spirit" has become today in the United States. This is only the USOC that has this rule as the IOC doesn't care (read thier bylaws, all 43 pages, and legal notices, no where even close to as corporate favored as the USOC's bs). dont we (the US) just love to show our corporate, i mean olympic spirit? Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter http://www.cascadenscale.org/Evergreen/tsdm.htm

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>yeah i think it is not only sad but pathetic that the USOC's
>so called "olympic spirit" deals with multi-billion dollar
>corporations and freakin marketing. Yep. The only "spirit" they have is the spirit of raking in the dough.
-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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Jens, you are amazing, dude. But what you have to do now is build a cauldron car that carries the torch. =o)Also: UP wasn't the only railroad that carried the torch before the 2002 Games...

- DISPATCHER 618

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Those are indeed very sweet. Fantastic job! I would like those very much, but I agree. Licensing would be the big problem. It's the Olympic Comittee that would be the tough sell. -Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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hey Andrew..... I am not going to waste bandwith on this more than I need to, but guess what???? My wife works for the WSOR!!! Thats right bud!! THEY painted the units...so the licence applies to ALL of the WSOR peeps! TRUST ME!!! I inquired about it MONTHS ago and was told this...So just to make you angry and upset, I am going to have JC send me the units...and I will upload them!!! WHatever licence BS you wanna throw at me, go ahead!! Just to make you eat your words!!You just picked on the wrong bunch!! AND the wrong friends of mine!TRY and stop me!....NO, wait....I'll REALLY make you angry...I'll send them to my FRIENDS only!!!! (And I have alot) You will NEVER get them!!! BWWWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!God where does MSTS get guys like you?

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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>God where does MSTS get guys like you? Ummmmm Kelly.You alright there little buddy Tim Kent
96th_Malice
" Power for You "

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Less coffee Kelly. Frank Roberts
Fed Ex Freight
P&D Driver

"Sometimes I dream about being carried off by a big giant squirrel. Does that make me a nut?"

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LOL! Beutiful Kelley. :p

Mike Suitts

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Woohoo, fun thread we've got going here. Anyhow, regardless of the outcome, to be released or not, that's some mighty fine work there JC. Great job on the modelling and the texturing. Sure is purty!Regards,
Dan Zollner - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

Pro Series Geeps

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-03 AT 06:44 AM (EDT)

Okay I've come to a very interesting conclusionJens-Chris did a wonderful job on these. If you guys aer bitching over some law, then like Chuck said you need to go find a different tree to hug or some other drug to snort of sniff. Or better yet if you do the latter see another dealer or switch brands of fly spray. Obviously that doesn't do it for you. To all others who don't want this model released I say f--- all you a-------. I agreee with Chuck to make it his personal vendetta to release this model. Hell I'd use it. I already said that. But why have the bitching and complaining about this? All for nothing. the trolls have come out to play. In conclusionm since i have to get out the door, I say release it and see what the general consensus is. If you don't want to use it that's your perogative. But if this was released even today I would use it. Right off I might add. To all those who care about legal precendents:
My boss said to me once that whatever is in the rule book throw right out the f------ window. And I would support NALW in this respect. Jeff is right. It only works, Only if you rake in the greenbacks and trample everyone underneath you. go cry foul somewhere else not here. Personally I'm sick and tired of following the rulebook so guess what, as of now the rulebook is out the god damn f------ window as far as this thread is concerned. the trolls have pissed me off to no end about thisMy final words, Chuck, you go boy you release it and I'll download and support it

I had to edit this out. I called Chuck chick. He;ll be wondering when he got a sex change operation for me to call him that
A little humour for all the humorless people out there as one member calls it.

Dr. Satan

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sd70mac666, I fully agree with you and your boss. You know one thing in this thread that also bugs me is the whole "I'm perfect and I can do no wrong" attitude displayed in this post and many others. It's just sickening. Everyone has done something wrong or broken a law at some point in time. Honestly, how many people here drive 5 mph over the speed limit. Even here in Dayton there is a law forbiding the eatting of ice cream in city limits on sundays. Thats why I never complain about someone breaking the rules as I have to. If I did I would be a hypocrite... Well I think you folks see where I'm going with this.

Mike Suitts

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J-C,First off, excellent looking units! You've outdone yourself with these my friend.Second, my attitude on this mess is, I'd love to have them, and if made available, I'd download them in a heartbeat (like eveything else that NALW puts out), especially since the 2001 has been running around on CSX for the past week or so. But, if they aren't made available, I'll keep on keepin' on and dream about what might have been.I personally don't see the big deal with releasing them as freeware, but laws are laws, and we all know how lawyers and companies/organizations with big pockets are. I recently had a runin with the CSX law-machine about my own website, and easily cleared things up with them, but that was cake compared to dealing with the USOC and Coca~Cola. All I can say is, whatever happens with these, thanks for the pics at least J-C, and good luck to you and the guys at NALW with clearing this up. Chris Denbow - Baltimore, MD
TKW Paintshop Technician

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Yeesh.. I expected the thread to get like this... but I'm gonna have to agree with Bill and others.. Heh, I like your boss, sounds just like mine lmao.Ya gotta admit.. these are some serious kick @$$ locomotives.. why not release them...They are to much fun to run though

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

--Power For You--

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f58c65660041524.jpg

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f58c66660507d20.jpg

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those DEFINATELY need the ELLISON LIGHTING touch!!! LOL Hey Brian, NICE shots there!! LAter!

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-03 AT 04:28 PM (EDT)

======Jens-Chris, NALW, and the MSTS community,
I find that this is an extremely poor choice for a repaint. It is clear that NALW does not possess the proper license to produce items containing the Olympic trademarks protected by statute (36 U.S.C. 380(c)), yet the repaint is complete and illegal distribution is sure to follow. Producing and distributing this repaint, without holding a license from the IOC and USOC is illegal, and the development of such a repaint without proper premissions is against many of the fundamental principles of the Olympic Charter.
I would like NALW to take it upon themselves to delete this repaint or put it into storage until proper licensing is obtained from the IOC and USOC. For a group such as NALW, which has it's own licensing agreements to protect it's intellectual property, NALW should respect the IOC and USOC's copyright.
Also, to any other who have obtained this repaint, please support the Olympic movement and it's values of fair play and the educational value of good example and respect for fundamental ethical principles by deleting this repaint from your computers.
The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practised without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.
Thank you,
Andrew Pickell================================================================Andrew
Thanks sooo much you for writing, posting, and emailing all of us this whole hearted praise of the IOC. It had been weeks since I LAUGHED THIS HARD!!!!!!! Through every word you wrote, I could not get the thought of all the bribes and hookers the IOC accepted in awarding the past winter games to Salt Lake City. And let us not forget the very ethical judges. It stopped being about young athletes and goodwill years ago. The almighty dollar has taken center court

Anyway, if you wanted to start a pi$$ing match, you could of supported a better cause or at least did your homework on the details. But thanks for the laugh !!!!!
J. Hildenbrand------NALW------

---Juice for You---

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This has gone far enough. Time to lock up the post and the repaint. People are bitching and bitching about it and its not getting anyone anyway. JC man, I really think you should have kept it to yourself. I think the repaint should stay in JCs and NALWs hands and it should never be talked about or seen again.

Looks Like a Pony RUNS LIKE A STALLION

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-05-03 AT 05:31 PM (EDT)

and we should care WHAT you think WHY??? The repaint should be lost because of a few doughnut brained idiots?BAH!!BNSF4723, if you don't like it, DONT come into this thread!! IIRC, Brian AND JC are MODERATORS....complain to them!! No wait, they posted the pics....hmmmmmm.....what to do what to do?Then go get your ba-ba from mommy. ANd here it begins.......now, if we don't like a persons repaint, we can get the pics banned and have that person flogged for being creative.....and told NEVER to show his art AGAIN!! It offended a 'psedo' lawyer.Then, when we don't like a 3d model somene did because it was NOT the correct version, we can complain and get the screens AND/OR the model banned, and have the person who DARED be creative and try FORBIDDEN to do so again.Then, someone can go back, see the pictures of us all on the 'What we look like" post, and have us removed for being black, hispanic, white, indian, Jew, Gentile, Fat, skinny, man, woman, gay, straight, yellow, brown, pink, blue, alien, (GET THE POINT?)...if that don't work, we can use the profiles of the peeps, and if we don't like it, get them kicked for being DIFFERENT from someone else!!Then, when there is NO ONE left but the trolls...no, wait, they will be gone too..they turned on each other. So MSTS dies, and we have no one left. Think I am kidding? It is happening NOW!! Keep it going like it is, we will lose ALL of the talent we have and the ONLY ones left will be the ones who produce NOTHING and know how to do NOTHING. (EDIT: and there will be no one left to show anyone!!!)But that's what the troll's want. And the non-producing people who are JELOUS of the ones who CAN do it!IF I offended anyone who is a great person on here who just hasn't done anything yet because of being new or not figured it out, I apologize....but YOU know who you are....the others are LYING to themselves!Again, JC NEVER said he would release them. He did them for himself. How many of us repainters have done the same damn thing, shown screens because were proud of it, then never released it?I know I have....so have many of you.....and then there are peeps like .....well...I won't point fingers..but he is the one complaining the loudest, that NEVER do a thing but COMPLAIN AND WHINE, or steal others work.I BEG that this post NOT be deleted!!Later!!

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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Why the hell shouldn't it be deleted? Oh I know, its cause the ADULTS like it. The senior members, the elite, superior gods of the forums. Fine if it isn't gonna be locked, I'll just act like an ass and make em lock it, that fancy you? Oh and these childish remarks about my mother I really didn't expect from a grown man.... I really don't see what the debate is about anymore, lock the damn post or make a decision of what its final fate is.

Looks Like a Pony RUNS LIKE A STALLION

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>the ADULTS like it. Hm..I like the repaint, and topic for the matter, and I'm not an Adult. Anyways..JC...that is hands down the best repaint i've seen..I don't know why..but it just looks so real or something..can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's the model that it is based on...anywho..

Jay
http://www.freewebs.com/peterbiltsrule

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Thank god you're not a moderator. This place would be in terrible shape, worse than it already is.Austin
Midwest Rail Group

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I wouldn't really want the job in the first place

Jay
http://www.freewebs.com/peterbiltsrule

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To be sure they are nice looking units, but by posting this and saying that he couldn't\wouldn't upload them is asking for a war. I really think he would have been better off keeping quiet about it until the required permissions had been granted and\or another solution come to.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Don't want childish remarks toward you? Then GROW UP!!!! Saying your going to DELIBERATLY try to get a post deleted, wow...very adult. TO me, that is an admission of wanton destruction and disrespect, and you should be banned! But I am one of the ADULT, Elite, gran poobahs!! LOLJust for reference, I got a post today from a railroad group I belong to, and one of the units is headed towards Chicago.
LAter!

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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Andrew opened his mouth and inserted his foot when he said:> I find that this is an extremely poor choice for a repaint.You know, everybody has been quoting Andrew's first post when he said this, and while I haven't read each subsequent post in its entirety (I've only skimmed to try to catch the important parts) I don't think I've seen any real rebuttal to the sentence above. So here's mine:Now I don't participate in the message board as much as a lot of you other people do, but this statement made by Andrew makes me mad as hell. Just because J-C will probably never be able to distribute the repainted locomotives due to some formal legal code DOES NOT make the selection a "poor choice for a repaint." What would be a better choice? A BNSF GP-40? Or a CSX Dash 8? How about a D&SNG Parlor car? How about a Disneyland locomotive? Have I hit on anything that isn't in some way trademarked yet? It almost sounds like you are saying that J-C is stupid or something... ... Are you? I believe he is a very smart guy. I think it was a GREAT CHOICE for a repaint.The fact of the matter is that I've been watching Jens-Chris over the last 18 months or so that I've been on here, and the one thing I gotta give this kid credit for is that he has been willing to take on any challenge to recreate something on his computer that exists in real life and give it his best effort. I would not say that J-C is the best there is, or even that he is "better" than certain people, but I would say that he is extremely talented at what he does and if he keeps it up, lots of opportunities will be opened to him later in his life. If we ever had something like a fantasy MSTS construction team, I'm sure Jens-Chris would be a top pick for many of us. He knows dang well what the rules are, and has already demonstrated that he will play by them to the best of his knowledge. He even said so in his post that because of legal issues the models would probably not be available for public download. Andrew, your first message on the threat makes no note of this, which tells me you don't take enough time to read the text after the pictures finish downloading. Andrew, if you really want to talk about the spirit of the Olympics, let's try this: I am reminded of the theme of the 2002 Games, which was "Light the Fire Within". (Great, now I'm probably going to get b----ed at for using that without permission...) That motto in someways meant to me to let your talents shine and always strive to share them with others. All J-C wanted to do was to post some pictures and say, "Hey, look at what I accomplished!" and I am among those who say, "Good job! Keep it up!" Next time you jump into a thread like this, can you at least be nice and admire the work for what it is, and congratulate the artist or craftsman on his or her talents before you start an argument?I have to agree with JHilden when I think how even more than a year an a half after the end of the 2002 Winter Games that people still try to find ways to taint the image and memories of what was a unique and memorable event for this Utah railroader. (I am merely a man, and not responsible for any spelling errors this message may kontain.) =o)

- DISPATCHER 618

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Jens...you tease! ...By the way,i'm glad to see you "thinned out" the hand rails...Lookin good!!!

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I would also like to see the Torch Car as well ( See Bill Hembs post up near the top ) but then again I would just be happy to see the locos released Southern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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Jens, you are the man. Those locos rock. Andrew, be quiet. Thank You.Later NW 1218 LONG LIVE THE F40C!

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hey hey hey...
finally after 56 posts someone discovered the thinned handrails !!
Congratulations, Don, you get the 1st prize !Jay-C

17 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jay-C ----

-- "Power for You" --

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-03 AT 07:30 PM (EDT)

It flame wars like this is why I'm scared to death to make my own repaints. I want to do some UP Patch units, but they don't have any way I can get a licence to do those repaints and patch units. Its says that you have to provide model sales figures for the last year. Hello, I want to do them in freeware not to sell them and I never sold models before.
BTW if GM didn't want thier trademarks on any repaints or Trains in MSTS, they wouldn't allow Microsoft to have any EMD units what so ever. This includes all F-units, GP-Units, and SD-Units. You imagine how many fils uses GM's stuff in the File Library, Now if GM started going after everything of thiers they'll probally shut this site down because of this. BTW, Did you guys at NALW have to pay UP anything to get that licence. I really want to do repaints of Mo-Pacs, UPs, and maybe some of their other trademarks they own. I also want to do some of KCS's Gateway Western Locomotive Repaints. Do I need a licence for that?

Chris Knight
Kansas City, KS

Coal Trains Rule

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Howdy, Contact me off list OK?NICEONEACE@AOL.com

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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I couldn't figure out the UP paperwork either, I have it sitting on a clipboard right here, but wtf? I really don't see anything that applies to Digital Art such as MSTS, IMHO UP needs another form for the freeware guys, Cuz I'm lost.

____________________________________________
Shawn K, shawnssk@yahoo.com
Texture dude for TKW & YLW, Forum Mod. Feel free to e-mail me.

The NYO&W.. Running from somewhere to nowhere, But never forgotten
____________________________________________
READ the forum rules!
Have a general question? Try Google
Looking for an answer to a Train-Sim Question? Search the Forum Archive First
Looking for a certain Trainsim add-on? See Here First!

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-03 AT 09:39 PM (EDT)

Nope no fees that I remember, at least not for a freeware org.
Payware/Shareware guys it's another story. Get out your checkbooks as IIRC there is a processing fee in addition to the royalty fees...Just fill out the long form and put Zero or Does Not Apply when ever it asks for or talks about Sales Figures and Production Figures....
Be sure you clearly state that you only produce FREEWARE Models for MSTS.You will, IIRC, have to send them a form annually certifying Zero Dollars in sales.... But So what!No biggie! and it wasn't too hard since I did it all on a rainy saturday afternoon....The rest of the process takes 2 to 3 weeks to turn it around.....Now as to when UP updates their lists on the website I have no idea as we still are not listed and have had a signed agreement for several months.....
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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I got some pics of this loco and coach from UP...

Ben, Forester tech.

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it wasn't too hard since I did it
>
>>Chuck Schneider
Ain't that the truth!!!! Sorry Chief, couldn't resist!!! I still luv ya though!! Just a little humor!!!!
LAter!

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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Just to add to the pot. One and only one notable model railroad manufacturer actually has a license with UP, Overland Models. But you keep seeing Athearn, Walthers, Kato, and such keep coming out with UP and UP related items and they aren't getting into any trouble. I just don't see why everybody is so freaked out about the UP licensing thing. Geez, if the big name model railroad companies don't have licenses, do you think some redneck trainsim designer (ok, not really a redneck) would get into crap with UP about some repaint he did? I'd bet not!Ok, thats my 2 cents.Austin
Midwest Rail Group

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I belive as Jens-Chris stated that UP is 99% ok ( And scence its a NALW Project now they won't have to worry ) but they are worried about the International Olympic Commitees copyrights Southern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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who gives a rats ass about the IOC. Bribery and prostitutes rule on that count

Dr. Satan

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Hey I do not like that last post delet or somthing.

All ways remembering BigBoy 4023 and her run throuth Green River Wyoming on train 359 a 600 car mixed freight.

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-03 AT 11:48 AM (EDT)

Sorr ybuddy but due to mental health issues I get away with mostly anything. the mods keep an eye on me. And whoever else. The mods alert me to anything wrong or the users, but I've established myself in these forums. I am the SatanTrain, the resident SatanTrain to be exact. But it's true about bribery and prostitutes. Weren't you the one pissing and moaning about leaving the forums? Door os over to your right, don't let it hit you on the ass on the way out.Now I'm waiting to see if I'll get into trouble.

Dr. Satan

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-03 AT 12:05 PM (EDT)

Maybe you could do the other "unique" UP engine, #3300. It looks great, and I don't think the United Way would sue you.
}>

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I would be more afraid of the United Way Lawyers that the Olympic folks Runs

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Actually Austin, have you seen Kato's new N-scale F3 prices? DRGW,UP,WP units cost about 10 dollars more.

Mike Suitts

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Mike
That sounds like what happens when the 500 lb gorrilla discovers theres gold in them thar licences.
In my other hobby life(I know no other hobby than TS is sacrilige)I build resin figure kits,there was an outfit in the late 80's early 90's called Horizon that did a lot of Marvel super heros,Star Trek,and other horror/scifi characters, the kits sold for 25/30 bucks.
Then Disney came out with the Rocketeer movie,Horizon got the licence but as much as I'd have liked to build the kit,I was not going to shell out 80 bucks(more than double the cost of their most expensive kit) due to the Mouse god's outrageous royalty cut.
There are quite a number of former modelers in my group of buds who bailed on the model railroading altogether due to simply being priced out of the hobby,now I wonder how many more may switch roads they model,just say to heck with the hobby alltogether,or in my case go totally digital due to the additional UP tax on stock.Gary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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I finally find theres pics on my HDD
Yep, it's really a very nice model from UP

Ben, Forester tech.

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f5b6ccb1645e627.jpg

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f5b6d4b182b0ad9.jpg

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Wow , I haven't seen the coaches before there nice , I still like UP 2001 Leading and Intermodal Consist through Palmdale Ca. Southern Pacific will live on forever in the hearts of the Red and Gray Railfans
Shane Palus
smp1151@sbcglobal.net

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J-C, is it possible to fix the color of the handrails, because only the segments of handrail adjacent to the trucks are painted white (Compare your units' handrails with the pics in the link I provided.)http://nbratney.tripod.com/torch/

Watch the gap.
It's right next to the train. You can't miss it.
MTA Going your way-the safe way

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No, it isn't possible...
If this is gonna be the reason for you not to get it, incase it's getting available...
Then don't download it...Jay-C

17 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jay-C ----

-- "Power for You" --

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Whewwww pipe down some there J-C.He was only offering a suggestion my friend.i think everyone is alittle worked up on this particular thread.And believe me I do understand why.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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Ok, sorry man, just a little "overworked"...Jay-C

17 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jay-C ----

-- "Power for You" --

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It's all good little brother.Step back and take a break for a minute.Don't worry about the troll prowling around.The traps are set.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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"Don't worry about the troll prowling around.The traps are set."Are you addressing me?

Watch the gap.
It's right next to the train. You can't miss it.
MTA Going your way-the safe way

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Trust me when I say this.If I were addressing you I wouldn't have a problem pointing a finger at you.But if you feel that I'm addressing you then that's the wat that it is.I stand by what I posted.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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Claude, you have a right to stand by what you posted. But please note this. I happen to be a very mature person and I just like to make things better. I like to praise people that are more talented than me but love MSTS as much as me. But now I do not feel that you were pointing at me, after what you have just said. Thanks, Claude.

Watch the gap.
It's right next to the train. You can't miss it.
MTA Going your way-the safe way

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Never pointed a finger at you at all.As a matter of fact you'll hardly ever see me in a flame war.But when I do speak I call as I see it.Sorry for any confusion.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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No, J-C, don't get me wrong... It's a very nice model and I'm just asking if a minor imperfection could be fixed... If it will get available for download, I'd download it...

Watch the gap.
It's right next to the train. You can't miss it.
MTA Going your way-the safe way

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So would everyone else including me

Dr. Satan

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Hey JC, Couldn’t you just release this model with the paintjob and Union Pacific road number? I think we all could learn to live without the Olympic’s logoJust a suggestion
Jerry

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I agree. I do as many of you like the paint. However, I just want the chance to have at the least, one SD70MAC from you guys at NALW. Be it U.P. or BNSF, or whatever, I just want to see it done.
So rather than making all of us drool over this particular paint scheme and worry about permission to use logos, go with the ones you have permission for. From what pics I have seen of your SD70MACs other than this one, best I have seen yet. Don't get me wrong, I like this whole Olympic thing, I'd just rather have a H2 BNSF of this loco running around on my machine today, rather than next year.
nscaler

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I would rather wait for NALW to go through the proper procedures and release the units in their full Olympic Livery. The whole train would be exceptionally awesome.

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