Hydraulic and mechanical problems

I'm in the process of building some DMUs with hydraulic or mechanical gears. It's always the same as long as I don't put the statement DieselEngineType ( hydraulic ) everything runs as expected except the gears they seem to be ignored. After putting in the above mentioned statement the gears seem to work but the DMU becomes nearly undriveable: slow response to RPM changes, extremely slow acceleration; it needs ages to reach an acceptable speed and the sound is out of sync too especially with low speed. What am I doing wrong or is it one of the MSTS-bugs?

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RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Aussie Cow, Feb-23-03, 03:02 AM, (1) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, dvdhoven, Feb-23-03, 03:41 AM, (2) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Aussie Cow, Feb-23-03, 03:52 AM, (3) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Hannes44, Feb-23-03, 04:02 AM, (4) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Aussie Cow, Feb-23-03, 04:23 AM, (5) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Hannes44, Feb-23-03, 04:33 AM, (6) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Hannes44, Feb-23-03, 05:00 AM, (7) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Aussie Cow, Feb-23-03, 06:16 AM, (8) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, pdaa, Feb-23-03, 11:58 AM, (9) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Hannes44, Feb-23-03, 12:39 PM, (10) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, dvdhoven, Feb-23-03, 01:52 PM, (11) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Hannes44, Feb-23-03, 04:08 PM, (12) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, dvdhoven, Feb-24-03, 12:47 PM, (14) RE: hydraulic and mechanical problems, Stooopid_person, Feb-24-03, 09:29 AM, (13)

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Interesting one you have there, what .eng file are you using, a defual MSTS one, a downloaded one or a totally new one (started from scratch)?Projects
- 421 class Public Transport Commission of New South Wales diesel electircs:
No. 1 end - 10% (Nose is starting to take shape, and with any luck screenshots should be released within a few days)
Sides - 45% (frame work is up, about 2/3 of panels on)
Overall - 19.8%
- 422 class New South Wales Government Railways diesel electircs:
On the drawing boards for a project after the 421's.
Overall - Not officialAs I sit here chewing on my MSTS CD, I wonder why did God make MS?

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Hi,Will be interesting if you put the eng file here. This is very less information. And have you tried to run with the default KIHA eng file?The problem is that this part of the .eng is nearly undiscovered territory. Most of the guys here run big diesels that are diesel-electric and they don't have this problem.
But as the default KIHA eng file runs fine, in my opinion, you can build up that eng file.Dick van den Hoven

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I am one of the few people who have devoted my MSTS life to exploring all parts of the .eng and .wag files, esp. the lighting section. I explore diesel, electrics and steam mainly but I think given half a chance I could fix the problem if fixable. Projects
- 421 class Public Transport Commission of New South Wales diesel electircs:
No. 1 end - 10% (Nose is starting to take shape, and with any luck screenshots should be released within a few days)
Sides - 45% (frame work is up, about 2/3 of panels on)
Overall - 19.8%
- 422 class New South Wales Government Railways diesel electircs:
On the drawing boards for a project after the 421's.
Overall - Not officialAs I sit here chewing on my MSTS CD, I wonder why did God make MS?

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I had to do the *.eng file from scratch because the KIHA31 doesn't fit by far. The DMU has 4 mechanical gears. This is the part of the *.eng file that seems relevant to the problem with the offending statement DieselEngineType ( mechanical ). I appreciate every suggestion.
Wagon ( VT_61_BBOE )
Type ( Diesel )
MaxPower ( 59kW )
MaxForce ( 5.4kN )
MaxContinuousForce ( 1.95kN )
RunUpTimeToMaxForce ( 4.0 )
MaxDieselLevel( 300l )
MaxVelocity ( 62.5mph )
MaxCurrent ( 1800A )
WheelRadius ( 0.515m )
Sanding ( 6mph )
NumWheels ( 1 )
MaxTemperature ( 100 )
MaxOilPressure ( 90 ) EngineBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 ) EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 10 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 10 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 5 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 4 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 30 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 50 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )
EngineBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
BrakesEngineBrakeType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesTrainBrakeType( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Train, Independent" )

CabView ( vt61.cvf )
DieselEngineType ( mechanical ) MaxDieselLevel ( 300l )
DieselUsedPerHourAtMaxPower ( 30l )
DieselUsedPerHourAtIdle ( 10l ) DieselSmokeEffectInitialMagnitude( 0.5 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxMagnitude( 1.2 )
DieselSmokeEffectInitialSmokeRate( 0.2 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxSmokeRate( 5 ) DieselEngineIdleRPM( 115 )
DieselEngineMaxRPM( 3000 )
DieselEngineSpeedOfMaxTractiveEffort( 10mph )
DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate( 140 ) GearBoxNumberOfGears( 4 )
GearBoxDirectDriveGear( 2 )
GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears ( 12.5 25 43 62.5 )
GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears( 5.4kN 4.3kN 3.7kN 3.5kN )
GearBoxOverspeedPercentageForFailure( 170 ) GearBoxCoastingForce( 400 )
GearBoxOperation( manual )
GearBoxEngineBraking( all_gears ) DoesHornTriggerBell( 0 )

MaxSandingTime( -1 )

EngineControllers (
Throttle ( 0 1 0.125 0
NumNotches ( 6
Notch ( 0 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.2 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.4 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.6 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.8 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 1 0 Dummy )
)
)
Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.02 0
NumNotches( 3
Notch(0 1 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
Notch(0.1 1 TrainBrakesControllerNeutralhandleOffStart)
Notch(0.15 1 TrainBrakesControllerApplyStart ) )
)
Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.125 0.4
NumNotches( 2
Notch(0 1 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
Notch(1 1 EngineBrakesControllerFullServiceStart)
)
)
Gear( 1 4 1 1
NumNotches ( 4
Notch ( 1 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 2 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 3 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 4 0 Dummy )
)
)
DirControl ( -1 0 1 1 )
BellToggle( 0 1 0 )
Horn ( 0 1 0 )
Headlights ( 0 0.25 1 0 )
)

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MaxPower ( 59kW )
MaxForce ( 5.4kN )
MaxContinuousForce ( 1.95kN )
That isn't much power at all - a fit 14-year-old, can produce 1kW of power.I also noticed the GearBoxNumberOfGears( 2 )
GearBoxDirectDriveGear( 2 )
GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears( 30 70 )
GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears( 25007N 11000N )
GearBoxOverspeedPercentageForFailure( 170 )
GearBoxBackLoadForce( 5000 )
GearBoxCoastingForce( 2000 )
GearBoxUpGearProportion( 0.85 )
GearBoxDownGearProportion( 0.35 )
GearBoxOperation( manual )
GearBoxEngineBraking( direct_drive )part from the Kiha31 is missing, you may be best off using the Kiha31.eng file and re-writing for your use, that should fix all your problems.Projects
- 421 class Public Transport Commission of New South Wales diesel electircs:
No. 1 end - 10% (Nose is starting to take shape, and with any luck screenshots should be released within a few days)
Sides - 45% (frame work is up, about 2/3 of panels on)
Overall - 19.8%
- 422 class New South Wales Government Railways diesel electircs:
On the drawing boards for a project after the 421's.
Overall - Not officialAs I sit here chewing on my MSTS CD, I wonder why did God make MS?

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These are the real world values from the data sheet. It is quite a small and old DMU with 6,2 t weight.

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You are right. I had to insert the GearBoxUpGearProportion and the GearBoxDownGearProportion for a correctly working gearbox although it is stated in the tech-docs that these statements are relevant for automatic gearboxes. This is obviously not true. One needs them with manually shifted gears too, but what the values do is a mystery to me. One doesn't need to trigger an increase or decrease in gear if one changes gears manually??!!
http://h.shob.at.tf

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Glad to see you got it working. The tech-docs are almost never true. If you so wish you could thank me in the readme file, but either way having got what could (and very well might be) the next 'golden gem' for MSTS working is a reward in it self.Projects
- 421 class Public Transport Commission of New South Wales diesel electircs:
No. 1 end - 10% (Nose is starting to take shape, and with any luck screenshots should be released within a few days)
Sides - 45% (frame work is up, about 2/3 of panels on)
Overall - 19.8%
- 422 class New South Wales Government Railways diesel electircs:
On the drawing boards for a project after the 421's.
Overall - Not officialAs I sit here chewing on my MSTS CD, I wonder why did God make MS?

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Did you get the 4 gears to work? Most English Railcars had mechanical gearboxes, until the Pacer/Sprinter revolution. I tried to make an eng file for these in my early tinkerings, but never got it to work. I only ever succeeded with being able to make 2 gears work. Please share your success with us.Thanks in anticipationPaul

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Yes it works. I still would like to know what the fuss with the GearBoxUpGearProportion is about and what the values mean to MSTS.You can gladly have the engine file. Contact me and provide an email-address I don't seem to be able to use the one from the right hand upper corner of your message.

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Hi,I was wondering about this value:
GearBoxDirectDriveGear( 2 )To me it seems that the DirectDriveGear is the highest gear and that is 4 in your configuration.
I interpret this as the gear that isn't really a gear, but directly putting the engine power to the axles. Kind of overdrive.Glad to hear you get it working. DMU's are one of my favorites.Dick van den Hoven

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-03 AT 04:08 PM (EDT)

Gears have usually the purpose to change power to velocity. If I need much power but slow speed I chose a transmission 2 : 1 or higher. If I want more speed and less power I can choose a transmission of e.g. 0.6 or 0.5 always depending what my first aim is. The lower gears in my DMU are power-intent with a transmission of 1.4 and 1 (meaning the 2nd gear transfers power 1 : 1 = direct drive) gears 3 and 4 have lower relations of 0.8 and 0.6. (Everything approximately)
I hope I wrote this understandably, English is not my native language.

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Aye, aye, Sir! All loud and clear sir! Dick van den Hoven

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>Did you get the 4 gears to work? Most English Railcars had
>mechanical gearboxes, until the Pacer/Sprinter revolution. I
>tried to make an eng file for these in my early tinkerings,
>but never got it to work. I only ever succeeded with being
>able to make 2 gears work. Please share your success with
>us. The Sprinters transfered from mechanical to hydraulic(and vice-versa) at 40mph at the engines quitens down. I don't remember the MSTS engines have both gearboxes so the sounds are made to pretend that they really are changing.

------My favourite LUL train------

"The next station is Chancery Lane"...........Crash! Bam! Booom!...Sends 32 people in the hospital and makes all the other 1992 stocks out of service for motor bracket replacing...

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