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pointroberts (114 posts)
Feb-03-02, 02:33 PM (EST) "Big Blow Headscratcher"
Don't want to start a fight between Michael Saverino and NALW, and maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here... but there's a big difference between some of the numbers. Compare Mike's 10,000hp upgrade and the NALW 8,500hp CabUnit.eng files:(Apologies for the table, train-sim.com doesn't like tabs! The format is as followsItem-Saverino-NALWMass-254t-168t
NumWheels-1-12
Friction-1692N/m/s-1849N/m/s
MaxBrakeForce-200kN-85kN
MaxPower-5000HP-2536.4kW
MaxContinuousForce-338.56kN-258kN
Sanding-5mph-29mph
MaxDieselLevel-12000gal-1200gal
DieselEngineSpeedOfMTE-27.5mph-13.5mph
Max starting tractive effort-212,000lbs-240,000lbs
Max continuous tractive effort-152,222lbs-145,000lbs
Wheel configuration-Sixteen 42-inch-Twelve 42-inch
Height-14 ft 3 1/2 in-15 ft 5 in
Width-10 ft 7 in-10ft 3 in
Length-83 ft 7 1/2 in-73 ft 2in
Weight-250 U.S. tons-168 metric tons (estimated)Chuck or Mike, or anybody who knows something about loco physics, can you help explain the differences? I've tried the NALW version with 38 loaded UP coal hoppers (4300 tons) and it seems underpowered (just my humble opinion).Thanks to BOTH Mike and Chuck, and especially to Jens-Chris Baraenz for the fantastic models! Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Big Blow Headscratcher DudleyG Feb-03-02 1 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher patm41 Feb-03-02 2 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher DudleyG Feb-03-02 3 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher patm41 Feb-03-02 4 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher chucksc Feb-04-02 5 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher chucksc Feb-04-02 6 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher cimmer Feb-05-02 7 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher kevarc Feb-05-02 8 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher Derby415 Feb-05-02 9 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher CPR_Malice_96th Feb-05-02 10 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher chucksc Feb-05-02 11 RE: Big Blow Headscratcher PennsyAC6000CW Feb-08-02 12

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DudleyG (13 posts)
Feb-03-02, 04:39 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" Probably Mike and/or Chuck can best answer your question, but I think the confusion lies in that Chuck split the "total" output of the Big Blow across the CabUnit.eng file and the TurbineUnit.eng file (for example - 40/60 split for Tractive Effort). You are looking at the numbers in the CabUnit.eng file only. There are some very large numbers in the TurbineUnit.eng file for these items. Some are much greater than the 40/60 split since in real life, the turbine consumed most of the fuel, not the cab unit.Hope this helps.Dudley Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
patm41 (579 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:11 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher"
talking about the 40\60 split... Is my understanding that the Big Blow cab unit is powered by a conventional diesel resulting in a lower Hp rating than the turbine unit...So which is correct an 8000 hp turbine unit + the 3000 hp cab Unit combined ??.which is 10 to 11 thousand Hp total...or we looking at total hp for both units together being 8000 hp??? yes it is confusing....patm41
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DudleyG (13 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:29 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" I put a similar post in a different thread, so I won't quote the whole thing, but according to Cinthia Priest's book on Union Pacific Diesels, page 81: The "A" portion (or cab control unit) had an 850hp Cooper-Bessemer diesel engine that was used primarily to move the set (A-B-tender) around a yard at low speeds. The "B" portion (or turbine unit) had the primary power supply which was the turbine and generators. The turbine was rated at 10,700hp, produced 8500hp to the generators, and 7000hp at the rail since there were two(2) 3500hp generators in the "B" unit. These 2 generators supplied power to the traction motors on both the "A" unit and the "B" unit. Thus the set had a 8500 hp rating. The reason for the very small (850hp) diesel engine was to avoid having to use the turbine for yard movements. The turbine only had an on/off switch. Once turned on, it used the same amount of Bunker C fuel oil whether it was going 10mph or 40mph. Dudley Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
patm41 (579 posts)
Feb-03-02, 07:33 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher"
thanks for the info on that !!!patm41
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chucksc (929 posts)
Feb-04-02, 00:04 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" I got my numbers from a similar source and I believe I am accurate.... FYI the BigBlow had similar Pulling power or less than a SD90mac....
See this thread..... Specifically posts 19 and 20...
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID5/2470.html
hope this clarifies things for you....------Chuck Schneider---------

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chucksc (929 posts)
Feb-04-02, 00:09 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" BTW there never really was a 10,000 hp version... according to the literature the Turbine itself was rated at 10,700 hp the two generators it drove could only absorb 8,500 hp and GE only
rated it at 7,000hp at the rail....
See this thread for lots of details if you are interested...
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID5/2502.html#10------Chuck Schneider---------

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cimmer (12 posts)
Feb-05-02, 01:53 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" Just thought I look and see what the UP had to say about these gaints today. They called the last 30 units,1-30, 8500HP on their web page. Take a look and see...
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/history/loco/locohs05.shtml
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kevarc (116 posts)
Feb-05-02, 02:08 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-02 AT 02:09 PM (EST)The rated horsepower - the 10000hp may not include power to drive all the aux. equipment. This could be the difference after you subtract out compressor, lights, etc, why it is rated at 8500. This would be the effective hp or rated hp. The Public Utility I work for here on Louisiana have a generator that is rated at 34 megawatts, however, we need 2 megawatts of that to run the plant so out net output is only 32 megs. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Derby415 (95 posts)
Feb-05-02, 02:41 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" Hey samspade..could u make a cab for the Turbines please Thanks in advance,
Jim Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPR_Malice_96th (541 posts)
Feb-05-02, 02:50 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" Yes please Sam.Don't worry Chuck n Buzz, I have a long list of requests for you too.heheTim Kent

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chucksc (929 posts)
Feb-05-02, 07:17 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" I think "Sam" already asked for pictures of the Big Blow Cab... or I did for him.... ------Chuck Schneider---------

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PennsyAC6000CW (6 posts)
Feb-08-02, 07:20 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Big Blow Headscratcher" I tried to split the HP and tractive effort numbers between the A&B units on the 8500.... I thought this was a safe assumption since the turbine provided road power for both... UP did upgrade some of the 8500 HP turbines to 10,000HP, however, the generators and electrical system could not handle the loads over 40mph... These upgrades were done during the Turbines swan song anyway.... The traction motors were traded in and used on the GE U50C. I got the HP and tractive effort numbers from various turbine articles on the web... The Sherman Hill video provided the specs on the 10,000HP turbine.... Hope this clears some things up....Mike..... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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