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"Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow"

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chucksc (851 posts)
Jan-31-02, 03:01 AM (EST) "Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Hi There Guys,
We at NALW have had a ball the last few days running Jens-Chris Baerenz' New Big Blow Turbine package. And we are impressed! Even if it is a TSM model (LOL!) A very talented young man in our opinion.
However, we believe the physics were some what "limited" and Jens-Chris even referrs to that in his release.
So, we have corrected the physics with the best information we could derive, Adjusted Spike Speigel's sound package so that it only contains the unique turbine sounds and aliases the rest, Added a horn we like better and added a modified copy of Akira Yoshida's "F" series cab which we believe will be more appropriate than the default gp38 cab. At least until an accurate cab can be made for these locomotives...
The File Name is BigBlowU.Zip (for Big Blow Upgrade)...
Enjoy!------Chuck Schneider---------

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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... ChooChooCharlie Jan-31-02 1 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... ChckHbrt Jan-31-02 2 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Jan-31-02 3 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... henry3 Jan-31-02 5 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... ChckHbrt Jan-31-02 7 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... JensChris Jan-31-02 4 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Jan-31-02 6 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... ace6879 Jan-31-02 8 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... cjmaclean Jan-31-02 9 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Jan-31-02 10 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... TrirailF40PHL Jan-31-02 11 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Feb-01-02 12 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Feb-02-02 13 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... pointroberts Feb-03-02 14 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... cjmaclean Feb-03-02 15 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Feb-03-02 18 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Feb-03-02 19 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... HAC Feb-03-02 20 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... chucksc Feb-03-02 16 RE: Updated Physics Now in the Libr... pointroberts Feb-03-02 17

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ChooChooCharlie (76 posts)
Jan-31-02, 03:08 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-02 AT 03:10 AM (EST)
There now, All that Whinning and crying and heres the fix just a couple days after the relese of the Big Blow Pack!! Yeeehaaaaa
and three cheers for the NALW!!!
No Worries

Charlie Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ChckHbrt (554 posts)
Jan-31-02, 05:00 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Hey ChuckYou ain't whistlin' Dixey. Jens-Chris is a very impressive young man. I wish I could do some of what he does. I have done some adjustments and I have been runnin' the wheels off these beautiful Loco sets. BTW the bounding boxes also need adjustment.Chuck Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (851 posts)
Jan-31-02, 09:25 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Ah $hit! I forgot to look at that.... To save time (i'm on my way to work in 30 mins) Do you have the BB adj. handy for these puppies? I can do a quick update and send it over before Nels posts the original!------Chuck Schneider---------

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henry3 (553 posts)
Jan-31-02, 09:53 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" That's okay, take your time. You can upload it with the new cab. <hint, hint> Henry Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ChckHbrt (554 posts)
Jan-31-02, 11:51 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Hey ChuckI sent you mail, but it was returned with fatal errors message.geez I hope your ok hehehehehehe...I will be away from the computer all day, I can re-send to you if you have another addy tonight.Chuck Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JensChris (106 posts)
Jan-31-02, 09:34 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Thank you very much !!!!!Good to know, that there's somebody out there, who will help me with my .eng files.Hip Hip Hooray !!!!Jens-Chris----------
15 years old, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (851 posts)
Jan-31-02, 10:07 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Jens e-mail me off line and I will give you some specific suggestions re: textures, packaging and what not!------Chuck Schneider---------

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ace6879 (658 posts)
Jan-31-02, 05:28 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Hi Guys, First thing I did was put in the Alco PA cab
((old F7) and been running them as often as I can. I love the turbine sounds!!! NICE work to all!
Kelley



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cjmaclean (790 posts)
Jan-31-02, 06:34 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Well, I'm using Trainartisan's F-7 cab with these babies ...looks good enough from the windshield shape!D.M.
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chucksc (851 posts)
Jan-31-02, 07:59 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Couldn't add TAs cab as I did not have permission to add it to a distribution of another author's product.... You as the end user can do anything you want.... FWIW, I used it on my copy also... then switched over to the cab that we distributed... Maybe I can talk Sam into building a "proper" turbine cab some day if we can get good pictures....------Chuck Schneider---------

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TrirailF40PHL (350 posts)
Jan-31-02, 08:19 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" I got a friend in Chicago that goes to the IRM once in a while, and I know Big Blow #18 is sitting there...mebby he can get a few pics for Sam!Kurt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (851 posts)
Feb-01-02, 11:28 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" kurt If you can get 'em send 'em!
------Chuck Schneider---------

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chucksc (851 posts)
Feb-02-02, 02:54 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" What over 600 downloads and nobody has any "field tests" to report back! Not even a single request for "help"????????Guess they make good disk drive space holders?????------Chuck Schneider---------

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pointroberts (109 posts)
Feb-03-02, 02:13 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Chuck, IMHO the horn doesn't seem loud enough... also can you give some idea of what it is you improved? Just looking at the two .eng files isn't that revealing. The latest in a long line of great stuff from NALW and Jens-Chris! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (790 posts)
Feb-03-02, 03:15 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Well, the update sure did work for me. It's a bit of a pity, though, that the loco doesn't seem to be as powerful anymore than it had been with the hacks I took from this forum earlier ...it pulled a 60-car consist of reefers up the Pass with no problems whatsoever earlier, but even with 8,500 hp it is now struggling to get much above 10 mph on grades...
I also think the loco has a tendency to wheelslip rather easily...any comments on that?
The cab sure is good, but the horn is indeed too silent, and I think the "start" and "end" markers are not placed correctly in the WAV file. Anyone know whether it'd be totally off if I used CLW's K5LA horn?
There was just one mod I did to the ENG files myself...namely to couple the cab and turbine unit with a bar coupler. Don't know if they had that in reality, but I think it just wouldn't do to accidentally uncouple half of the engine ...and after all the cab and turbine unit did only appear in pairs, didn't they?D.M.
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chucksc (851 posts)
Feb-03-02, 03:52 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Sure thing DM
You get wheelslip because the original ENG had the Antislip turned on! The prototype didn't have anti-slip just the sanding button. This thing is powerfull and just like in real life you can't just "floor it" and drive off! LOL!
I believe that some of the "hacks" posted here had almost double the pulling power of the prototype...Here is what I used for the 8500!
Weight 408 tons total not counting Fuel Tender
Weight Split Turbine as 260t and Cab 168t (60/40)
HP was 8500 (6341kW) split across both units (60/40)
MTE was 240,000lbs split across both units (60/40)
CTE was 145,000lbs split across both units (60/40)
Max Speed by Gearing as 66mph...
Hope this helps...
Compare it to a Single SD90mac
which has the following specs, according to Bob Boudoin in SDphy4;
Weight 192.8t
HP 6000 (4476kW)
MTE 185,000 lbs (821.5kN)
CTE 170,000 lbs (755kN)
Max Speed by Gearing as 75mph...Now can you see why you think it is underpowered? And why they were replaced by the Newer Hood Diesels....------Chuck Schneider---------

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chucksc (851 posts)
Feb-03-02, 03:57 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" The start and end markers are placed they way they are in the Horn so that you can sound long and short blasts by controlling how long you hold the key down... This is one of the few Horn Samples currently available that can do this and is one of the reasons I chose it.... It probably is somewhat quiet as the horn inside the cab usually is quieter than you think as the cab sorta insulates you from it and it is focused fore/aft (just look at the way the Bells face that is the way the sound comes out) Also you have the very loud noise from the Bird Cooker (Turbine) fighting with the Horn and Bell also.... It tends to overpower them.... Maybe one of the sound mavens would adjust it to suit you.... I'm comfortable with it the way it is....------Chuck Schneider---------

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HAC (473 posts)
Feb-03-02, 11:48 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" This is something I often have to explain at work to non-ops folks who are railfans.. The relationship between HP and STE/CTE is a pretty complex one that takes into account a lot more than just number of wheels and weight. Lots of the older high HP/high TE diesels were very slippery creatures indeed, and TE often varied tremendously across the run range. Look at CP's experience
with the big Alco Centuries, lots of HP and TE, but very hard to put that power down to the rails, which is why we took a M640 with 4000HP and converted in 1984 to AC traction in conjunction with Brown-Boveri. This mod was found to be much more effective in putting power to the rails, and this unit (4744) is generally considered to have contributed greatly to the development of AC traction in North America.
The current AC units are incredibly sophisticated in terms of computing power. In essence, when you MU them, you actually are creating a LAN across the units. (thats why losing the termination resistors is such a pain, GE wants $50.00 for a $2.00 terminator). Wheelslip is monitored, as is true groundspeed, and the current to the traction motors can be adjusted in very precise increments to ensure that all the units are putting down max tractive effort, just on the edge of wheelslip. That, coupled with the fact tht Ac traction motors can run longer and harder without the heating problems of DC units, makes one very efficent locomotive..
The turbines were probably pretty tricky to drive well. Lots of HP, probably very little throttle control range, and most likely very slippery beasts. cheers
Harold
Train gif from http://tgs.railfan.net/ and
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chucksc (851 posts)
Feb-03-02, 03:26 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow" Sure thing!
The ENG files JC built were almost verbatum copies of Chris Lee's E8a and E8b files.... Consequently they were totally wrong in the following areas;
Weight was wrong and needed to balanced by Unit!
HP was wrong and needed to be balanced by Unit!
MTE/CTE was wrong for all units and needed to be corrected!
Consequently all Friction Values were wrong including the ones for the Fuel Tender!
Brake Physics were for the E-8 and needed correction to values appropriate for a Freight Locomotive.
Sound Folder had many files duplicated from MSTS default folders, These were aliased to save space.
Horn was changed for personal preference... You can make it anything you want if you'd like!
The GP38 Cabview wasn't even close as it is for a hood unit not a covered wagon. I added a Freeware F7 cab so that it at least looked correct.... This is until someone can get us some good pix of a UP Turbine's cab so Sam can do his thing on it!(Note: JC knew all this and asked for help fixing them, which we gave him)I have also uploaded a Version of JC's complete package with all fixes in it and with an automated installer for anyone who was put off by the original Big Blow installation and the Upgrade we issued....Hope this explains things better....------Chuck Schneider---------

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pointroberts (109 posts)
Feb-03-02, 03:52 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Updated Physics Now in the Library for the Big Blow"
Thanks, Chuck! I feel a lot more confident heading for the hills... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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