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Jim, After exploring a portion of PO&N9 , I have stumbled accross a few things for repair. I do not want to sound picky, but I think the beta testers should be fired.
4 switches to get to Simpsons BAy do not respond to the "g" keyTrees on the tracks south of the 2 story bridge, north of Tinkers Damn, On the upper line tracksAlso, the Bridge just north of Tinker Damn has a "0" speed limit!!
Hee-hee, well, actually not much can be done about any of that. The PO&N was designed for "open ended" or "freestyle" activities, which are included with the route. Play the Spittler activity as an example, instead of just a pair of engines that one has a pre-assembled train, the default 2xGP38 with 35 mixed cars. Start that activity and explore the route in the activity, no switching/shunting required.Problem is the switches behave differently in Explore Route mode than they do in an activity, if you drive in a continuous circle or go thru a reverse loop in explore mode the manual switches will lock up. MSTS doesn't permit full circles, but it's possible to do it within an activity off the path. In your first screenshot, the switch at the top (where the upper track joins the lower) is an automatic junction switch, the other switches are the ones that connect to a reverse loop. The automatic switch can't be thrown in an activity, but you're not supposed to throw it since the upper track on that doubledeck bridge is the AI traffic route, not the PO&N route. The other switches can be controlled in an activity, since the way MSTS processes paths is different in activities so the return loops and circles don't lock them up.As for the unfinished scenery and trees on the tracks on the AI traffic route, the player ain't supposed to be driving on the AI traffic route!Unfortunately you can't have everything, the PO&N was designed to allow the player to go wherever he wants (on the PO&N route, not the AI traffic route) and do whatever he wants within activities, combined with actual interaction with AI traffic trains. The way the route is designed makes that work well, but limits what you can do in explore route mode. That's why you got the 0mph speed limit, going thru one of those red absolute signals on the AI route. See the 1maps&docs&hacks\map folder, plus signals.jpg for further info on that.
Ok, my apology. The workings of the PO&N9 are alot more complex than a normal route. Having a better understanding now, gives more credit and respect towards your talent. Thank you Deanno"WE ARE NOT WORTHY"
Sniper, What is the max amount of cars you planned to come up with on the lowest level of the mine to the second and with 1 or 2 engines. As usual I have the PO&N coal car LD renamed as the US2HOPPERCAR with V4.7 physics and as always would like as many as possible when I pull out on to the main. I see now though I'll have to completely revamp my high speed car pickup procedure as I am lost about half of the time. You did a great job and well worth the wait. As well the trailing unit throttle up/down sounds work extra well underground.Sonny Powell Roberts Rail Services Servicing the North Eastern Railroad Corporation and the MSTS Communityhttp://www.nerx.us/ http://www.vnerr.com/ http://www.glarr.com/ http://www.virtualrailz.com/ http://www.vparr.com/ http://www.vleu.org/
Man, you don't have to apoligise, all that IS confusing and requires explanation. I shoulda mentioned it in the readme, MSTS is a really screwy program, and what works one way don't always work another way.Sonny, on the other hand, should have his question shot."What is the max amount of cars you planned to come up with on the lowest level of the mine to the second and with 1 or 2 engines."Huh? What makes you think I ever PLAN anything?! Hee-hee, I guessed you meant in terms of car length on the switchbacks, but after reading on, the PO&N coal hoppers are shorter than the default US2hoppercars, so more of them would fit on a switchback. Problem is they're a lot heavier, so you need more horsepower to drag them up the grade.I'll have to hunt them up, or possibly Ray knows where they are, but there are some old threads on the "too many loose consists" limit bug somewhere. That was the determining factor in deciding how many loose consists to place where, trying to get enough loose consists to make it interesting without tripping that limit bug. Again tho, the activities are "freestyle", how many loaded coal hoppers you wanna drag out of the mine is up to you. There's a total of 25 hoppers in the included activities, and one extra SD40-2 helper engine on the Level 3 maintenance track, so with a little fooling around you could conceivably get all 25 up to the surface even with 100 ton loaded hoppers. That's the purpose of "Shea Surface North" and "Shea Surface South", staging tracks so you can haul up half a dozen cars and drop them on the siding, then go back down and get some more.Now that I finally got the little culprit uploaded I'll switch an activity to the actual coal hoppers and try it out, anybody else want to do a conversion to PO&N freightcars, engines, and coal hoppers feel free to upload your activities. EDIT: Found the old threads;http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=20519&forum=DCForumID3http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=18452&forum=DCForumID3http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23325&forum=DCForumID3Still don't know exactly what the number is, I think it varies. Just be aware when you make activities, don't go hog wild with placing 2 zillion loose consists in the same area.
Jim, you wouldn't build a kick-@$$ route would you? I've just started traveling it on my old machine and I have to say, with the new scenery, I don't know where I am half the time, but things are going smoothly, no hiccups. Now I just gotta sub PON stock for default. Looking forward to that chore. I can hardly wait for ver 20 in a couple years. Thanks. You are the man. Now, just pull those horns in so I can introduce you to my wife.. She's becoming a railfan too. Goes with me looking for trains. -Al
Jim,I've found a minor problem ( perhaps).Coming from Van den Hoven, turning right at Tinkers to go to Newcastle, I'm heading over the bridge by the signal box and I get an overspeed display in the F5 HUD. The RD cab shows Green over Green and 70MPH. Actual speed was 32MPH.Alan
Al & Alan? Well, start with Al "asmith46", going smoothly no hiccups mean you're getting better framerates than PO&N8? Hopefully it should be improved, Chris Schwan came up with this new idea of using the autogantry utility to place vegetation along the right of way, and that spawned the idea of cloning treeclump objects to autogantry alongside the tracks. It seems to be kinder to framerates than dense forest regions. As for your wife, not to worry, I've been happily divorced for almost 15 years now, I wouldn't want yours or anyone else's. "Bigamy is having one spouse too many - monogamy is the same" -Oscar Wilde"Instead of getting married again, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and give her a house" -Rod StewartAlan "hotmetal", I started in Van den Hoven to try to duplicate, I assume you're talking about the bridge at the very top of the North Pass, junction 191. Just to clear up possible confusion about the cab aspect repeater, the number is the speed limit at the next signal ahead, not the current speed limit.Here I'm in a 70mph zone, but the next zone coming up is 25mph. This is a good example of the one time when it's okay to blow a red on the PO&N, I saw the AI train (last car just visible in the tunnel) and we're going the same direction, so it's permissible to follow him thru the red.When he clears the exit switch at the far end of the tunnel the home signal goes green, but I'm still in the restricted 25mph zone until I pass the home signal. Once you pass a signal and get a restricted speed zone you're under the restricted speed limit until you pass another signal, backing up to before the interlocking and then passing thru it again on the green would also work.Starting the Van den Hoven CCW activity (counterclockwise traffic) I headed to Tinkers Dam, threw the main divide switch right to head down the North Pass.Got a signal clear at junction 191, but continuing on;The signal goes red right in front of me.The way this works, in the signal scripts is a "signalnumclearahead" line that defines how far ahead of each train the path is projected, and as the AI train passes the fourth spacer signal back from the interlocking (at the dam in the pic above) it triggers the interlocking awake, and throws the first switch beyond the interlocking for the AI route. Since I'm approaching the junction just as the AI train trips the fourth signal, I see green and then suddenly it's red.Having passed the interlocking at the instant it turned red, I'm now in a 25mph restricted speed zone. The cab aspect repeater shows green since it's looking at the home signal at the far end. I'm also in "The Dead Zone", I'm past the signal but haven't cleared the base of the switch yet, so HAL9000 (the AI dispatcher) doesn't know I'm here yet. Once I pass the distant switch indicator, which still shows green (exit switch at the far end is still set for the player route), HAL will detect me as being in the block, and stop the sequencing of switches for the AI train. How much time you have between the first and second switch throws depends on (1) the speed of the AI traffic, and (2) the distance between the third and fourth spacer signal trips. Most places on the PO&N the spacer signals will give 60 seconds between switch throws, the minumum is 30 seconds where the track configuration makes that impossible. For the crossovers in Anderson and Sundermeyer there's no warning time, both switches throw at once, so the spacer signals are set close enough to the crossovers that you can physically see the approaching AI train from either end before it trips the switches. Trying to beat an AI train to the junction is risky, you can get caught in the catch-22 trap.Since the interlocking had just turned red and the distant signal was still green, proceeding ahead was no problem, and once I hit the home signal I'm back in a 70mph zone. The flashing yellow dwarf signal shows 60mph, this is an "isolation" signal that prevents manual switches from affecting the signal indications on the mainline.Anyway, try to duplicate it again, and see if there's an AI train just crossing the dam when it happens.
Jim,As usual your spot on, i confused the speed limit at next signal with the current track limit, i suppose it was an easy error as I was running with only the cab display and the F5 display, no track monitor. Must be more careful in the future.Alan
Easy mistake to make, guys have been trying to find an actual speed limit display since day one, and no luck. The cab editor has a whole bunch of wierd displays you can add, but nothing to show the current speed limit. I still haven't figured out what's the point of the windshield wipers, or why there's four different listings for brake gauges.
Unfortunately you can't have everything, the PO&N was designed to allow the player to go wherever he wants (on the PO&N route, not the AI traffic route) and do whatever he wants within activities, combined with actual interaction with AI traffic trains. The way the route is designed makes that work well, but limits what you can do in explore route mode. That's why you got the 0mph speed limit, going thru one of those red absolute signals on the AI route. See the 1maps&docs&hacks\map folder, plus signals.jpg for further info on that.
Here I'm in a 70mph zone, but the next zone coming up is 25mph. This is a good example of the one time when it's okay to blow a red on the PO&N, I saw the AI train (last car just visible in the tunnel) and we're going the same direction, so it's permissible to follow him thru the red.
When he clears the exit switch at the far end of the tunnel the home signal goes green, but I'm still in the restricted 25mph zone until I pass the home signal. Once you pass a signal and get a restricted speed zone you're under the restricted speed limit until you pass another signal, backing up to before the interlocking and then passing thru it again on the green would also work.Starting the Van den Hoven CCW activity (counterclockwise traffic) I headed to Tinkers Dam, threw the main divide switch right to head down the North Pass.
Got a signal clear at junction 191, but continuing on;
The signal goes red right in front of me.The way this works, in the signal scripts is a "signalnumclearahead" line that defines how far ahead of each train the path is projected, and as the AI train passes the fourth spacer signal back from the interlocking (at the dam in the pic above) it triggers the interlocking awake, and throws the first switch beyond the interlocking for the AI route. Since I'm approaching the junction just as the AI train trips the fourth signal, I see green and then suddenly it's red.
Having passed the interlocking at the instant it turned red, I'm now in a 25mph restricted speed zone. The cab aspect repeater shows green since it's looking at the home signal at the far end. I'm also in "The Dead Zone", I'm past the signal but haven't cleared the base of the switch yet, so HAL9000 (the AI dispatcher) doesn't know I'm here yet. Once I pass the distant switch indicator, which still shows green (exit switch at the far end is still set for the player route), HAL will detect me as being in the block, and stop the sequencing of switches for the AI train. How much time you have between the first and second switch throws depends on (1) the speed of the AI traffic, and (2) the distance between the third and fourth spacer signal trips. Most places on the PO&N the spacer signals will give 60 seconds between switch throws, the minumum is 30 seconds where the track configuration makes that impossible. For the crossovers in Anderson and Sundermeyer there's no warning time, both switches throw at once, so the spacer signals are set close enough to the crossovers that you can physically see the approaching AI train from either end before it trips the switches. Trying to beat an AI train to the junction is risky, you can get caught in the catch-22 trap.
Since the interlocking had just turned red and the distant signal was still green, proceeding ahead was no problem, and once I hit the home signal I'm back in a 70mph zone. The flashing yellow dwarf signal shows 60mph, this is an "isolation" signal that prevents manual switches from affecting the signal indications on the mainline.Anyway, try to duplicate it again, and see if there's an AI train just crossing the dam when it happens.