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PO&N8 Activity Errors

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Charter Member · 30 posts

After running the 'Johnsburg' activity for about 1 hour I got this message "Error inserting/removing AI service PONfreight2, pathname 8west from world". This occured leaving Combs Landing heading NE towards Newcastle.The error occured about 30 times, sometime the error message appeared and sometimes only the default boing happened. I was able to hit enter after each error to continue. This error changed after about 30 times to reference "PONfreight3" and this error appeared a further 20 or so times.I was able to continue to Newcastle although there was a distinct lack on AI traffic to be seen.Anyone else experienced this.Jim, you might remember I did a freeform activity for PO&N6 where a similar error kept occuring. I can't recall if that particular problem was ever solved.This time I transposed the activity to "8" and discovered a couple of other differences. 1. The 2 empty log cars at 'Chipewa Falls Timber 6' refuse to be coupled by using the front coupler, however later at 'Combs Landing' I was able to sucessfully pick up some other logs cars using the front coupler.2. The wye at Northland Grain #2 has dissapeared. Is this something done on purpose or is it an 'undocumented feature'?3. No Invisocars in the AI trains. I presume you did not include them in this version.Framerates are up significantly on those in version 6, however I did get the occasional glitch where the famerates went from 35+ to 1 for a few seconds. I attribute that to something else slowing the HD access down, rather than the route.Good to see you back Jim and well done on this version of the route.
Ray

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RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors, sniper297, May-08-04, 06:03 PM, (1) RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors, sniper297, May-15-04, 10:58 PM, (2) RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors, dchagar, May-16-04, 08:47 AM, (3) RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors, sniper297, May-16-04, 10:56 AM, (4) RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors, dchagar, May-16-04, 11:22 AM, (5) RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors, CWA13000, May-16-04, 08:35 PM, (6) Hmmm...., sniper297, May-16-04, 09:27 PM, (7) RE: Hmmm...., OTTODAD, May-17-04, 06:26 AM, (8) RE: Hmmm...., dchagar, May-17-04, 07:35 AM, (9) RE: Hmmm...., sniper297, May-17-04, 02:08 PM, (10) RE: Hmmm...., dhammerman2003, May-18-04, 05:20 PM, (11) RE: Hmmm...., enocell, May-20-04, 03:33 PM, (12) RE: Hmmm...., heffed, May-20-04, 04:09 PM, (13) Update 1 and 2, sniper297, Jun-05-04, 11:20 AM, (14) RE: Update 1 and 2, niknak, Jun-05-04, 12:14 PM, (15) RE: Update 1 and 2, OTTODAD, Jun-05-04, 12:30 PM, (16) RE: Update 1 and 2, niknak, Jun-05-04, 03:34 PM, (17) RE: Update 1 and 2, sniper297, Jun-05-04, 07:00 PM, (18) RE: Update 1 and 2, Gecko, Jun-05-04, 07:51 PM, (19) RE: Update 1 and 2, sniper297, Jun-05-04, 11:18 PM, (20)

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Charter Member · 5848 posts

RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors

Thanks, Ray.#1, I'm not having that problem, altho I am using the default.wag hack:http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=18998&forum=DCForumID3#2, I figured with the wye at Texas Tea and another at Johnsburg, the one at NG2 was redundant. I'd have to check back with PO&N5, but it seems to me there was originally a wye at NG1 as well." After running the 'Johnsburg' activity for about 1 hour I got this message "Error inserting/removing AI service PONfreight2, pathname 8west from world". This occured leaving Combs Landing heading NE towards Newcastle."Yup, that's the bug that was giving me fits for six months.http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=20519&forum=DCForumID3 I made 3 new very simplified consists of 1 engine + 9 cars each, without Invisocar, and spaced the AI traffic 12 minutes apart instead of 10. Every little bit delayed the onset of the problem, but it was always there. After an hour (or more) of continuous driving I got:Disappearing scenery
Failed to create SMS object
Error inserting/removing AI traffic service (whatever) from world.Sometimes these would follow one after another, sometimes I'd get one without the other two, sometimes two without the other one. Eliminating Invisocar, eliminating coal/fuel/water facilities, simplifying the AI traffic, all delayed the onset of the problem, but none eliminated it. Switching, particularly with the front coupler, brought it on sooner rather than later, but even just driving around for an hour or so brought it on eventually. The problem could be duplicated on PO&N6, but it wasn't there before, what's different? Well, I got a new computer since V6, might be an XP or ATI issue. Running the "LITE" activities for V6 I didn't get it, but running the "HEAVY" activities I did. Finally I hit on the idea of too many wag files loaded into RAM at once, so I reduced the number of loose consists in the activities to less than 250. That did it, I was able to drive over 3 hours continuously before I got "failed to create SMS object". Okay, so why didn't I get this on my old computer? I looked at the visibility slider in the advanced display options on the old system, 1250 meters, since a lot of loose consists eats up framerates. The new system being much faster I had everything maxed out - so I lowered the visibility slider on the new system, problem went away. THAT explains why some people were reporting the problem and others weren't, the total number of .wag files loaded into RAM at any one time depends on the visibility slider, since everything within the circle of visibility gets loaded into RAM, and no matter how much RAM you have the MSTS game engine can only handle so many objects at one time.The only cure I know is to lower the visibility slider in the advanced display options about halfway, and/or save the game every half hour or so, exit the program completely to clear RAM, then restart and load from the save game.I'm currently working on some activities based on clones of the default cars with the SMS and FREDS eliminated, we'll see how that goes.I can't wait for PI Engineering's new Trainmaster, MSTS is going in the garbage as soon as that comes out!

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Charter Member · 5848 posts

RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors

Update on this, no magic bullet in the wag files. There seem to be two alternates here, too many .wag files loaded into RAM at one time, and too many .wag files processed since the game started.
http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1259&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yesThat's Jim Steven's explanation on how MSTS processes shape files, and when you add the complication of the .wag and .eng files it gets worse. There's definitely some kind of memory problem, because when I push the limit without going over, I can save, exit, and reload, and the scenery is all there and the problem is gone for another hour or so. If I'm over the limit then the save-exit-reload thing don't work, the scenery that was missing is still missing, and the "failed to create SMS object" and/or "error inserting/removing AI traffic service" pops up on the same schedule.All this is dependent on both stationary and moving .wag files, so having the simplified AI consists helps. At first I was suspicious of Invisocar, which is why the PO&N8 consists don't have it, but it now appears that the only problem with Invisocar was that it was one more .wag file added to the problem. Biggest factor was the number of loose consists tho.PO&N 6 LITE - 263 loose consists
PO&N 6 HEAVY - 348 loose consists
PO&N 8 - 237 loose consists
CURRENT PO&N 8 TEST - 406 loose consistsThat last one is testing the idea of AI traffic train wags with no SMS or lights, no lights in the loose consist wags, and simplified SMS files for the loose consist wags with the squeak-rattle removed. Not really much change, altho a test with the standard .wag files showed that the game wouldn't even start in some locations, where it would start and run for an hour or so before producing errors with the hacked .wag files. So it's an answer, but not the whole answer. And I don't think it's total number of loose consists within an activity, but the total number in a given area, combined with total number of AI traffic train .wags, trying to load at the same time. I tested that theory with the PO&N 6.1 AI traffic with Invisocar, and the standard default cars, in the aforementioned Texas Tea activity, only with the 406 loose consists. I got the scenery dropout at the top of the South Pass as usual, so I moved all the loose consists in 77 and Newcastle (32 total) to Anderson yard, and even tho there were still 406 loose consists total for the activity, I had no problem losing scenery or getting error messages at the South Pass or in 77. Anderson was a different story of course, when approaching the usual way straight thru Tinkers Dam/Van den Hoven/Sundermeyer/Timken Forest/CPR Malice a lot of the scenery objects in CPR Malice dropped out, or if I took the branchline cutoff at Timken Forest to approach Anderson thru Stevens Point/Fowlis, a lot of the scenery in Stevens Point and Fowlis dropped out.All this testing was done with the advanced display settings maxed out, lowering the visibility slider to 500-750 meters doesn't mean I can load up with as many loose consists as I want, but it does let me get away with a lot more of them.
Here's the map for PO&N 8:PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 1Even with the visibility slider set halfway, if this is loading everything within every quad tile boundary the circle of visibility passes over, you get a total of 9 quad tiles loaded into RAM at any one time. Starting in Texas Tea, I'll have Paludan, Fowlis/Stevens Point, Spittler, Texas Tea, Northland Grain, Wipfel, Chippewa Falls, Port Ogden/Johnsburg all loaded at startup. Along with every single loose consist, and every AI traffic train within those 9 quads.As I drive along into Johnsburg - South Pass, I start picking up more and more big yards and spurs full of loose consists, and even tho I never see it every hopper car in the coal mine loads when I enter Northland Grain, and doesn't unload until I pull out of 77 heading up to Tinkers Dam. The whole concept of the PO&N is big operations in a small space, but as much as I hate mainline driving I'm thinking expansion is the answer to this.PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 2Here's the proposed PO&N 9 map, by moving some of the larger switching areas and yards out of the center and away from each other, it's possible I can load the hell out of them with loose consists and not have the problem, since the distance driven will be enough to unload the previous area before loading the next one. I haven't worked out how the AI route is gonna go around all this yet, but the seperation should solve a number of problems.Anybody starting a new fictional route bear this in mind, it's probably best to leave at least one empty quad tile with nothing but mainline in it between each major yard or switching district.Yo, Tim, Trainmaster PI ready yet?

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Charter Member · 426 posts

RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors

I've been running the coal mine activity for 30 hours now, although not continuously. I've experienced none of the problems mentioned above. My goal was to pick up every loose consist available (those that I could get at) and stuff them into the coal mine. All my sliders are at max, and I have yet to experience any of the problems mentioned. I've run some sessions for as long as four hours with no errors. The frame rates get low when I get near the engines all stored at the Dugans Dynamite however.
Specs:
Hyper-threaded dual 3.3 gig processor
Radeon 9700
1.2G memory
All normal background MS crap running, with mail open checking messages as well.

Dave

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Charter Member · 206 posts

RE: PO&N8 Activity Errors

"I can't wait for PI Engineering's new Trainmaster, MSTS is going in the garbage as soon as that comes out!"Looks like I'm destined to get PI Engineering's Trainmaster!After posting a message about supporting PI Engineering the other day, I went to their site to see if they had anything I could purchase to support them. I noticed an add for that other train game we are not allowed to mention here. Their newest offering boasts of all maner of innovations and looking elsware, I found a post that said that they intend to pick up where Microsoft left off with a commercial simulator and a lite version to sell at some what game prices. Now I'm wondering if there are too many companies going for this small product nitch. I really like my Raildriver and would not like to see PI Engineering go down the tubes by being beat out in the simulator market. Seems to me that down the road they may make other Raildrivers that I would want if they are still around to produce them.( think Steam Raildriver )ReguardsWild Willy the Wacko

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Charter Member · 5848 posts

Hmmm....

Let's see if I got this straight, you're wacko, most people think I'm wierd, but Dave is the one trying to stuff 200 some-odd cars into the coal mine. I don't think PI is ever gonna go down the tubes, and the reason I have so much hope in the new trainmaster is because I've had this raildriver for a year now, and I use it every day. You can sum up PI Engineering in three words: Quality, Quality, Quality.Well, back to business, Dave, I got a P4 2.66 with a Radeon 9800, 1024mb RAM, Win XP home with service pack 1, so our systems are very similar. My DXdiag says "directx.cpl is a debug version, which will run slower than the retail version", but as far as I remember it came from microsoft's website. I don't remember which Catalyst driver I'm using, haven't updated it in a while.

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Charter Member · 5185 posts

RE: Hmmm....

Jim,the Driver version and it's date and number should be on the right pane under the DXDIAG Display Tab. Mine is telling me that my card is using the nVidia 30.82.O t t o

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Charter Member · 426 posts

RE: Hmmm....

Sniper,
A while back, the Windows Update on my system said there were new drivers available for the Radeon card, so I downloaded it, and promptly lost a lot of performance. I finally got rid of them and restored the latest from the ATI site, and things have gotten back to normal since. You wil get the "unsigned driver" message, but the ATI drivers are superior.

Dave

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Charter Member · 5848 posts

RE: Hmmm....

Well, I downloaded & installed the latest catalyst driver from ATI, didn't make any difference. That "directx.cpl is a debug version" is still there, so I went to the official microsoft directx website and downloaded end-user 9.0b.PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 3So much for MS quality control.

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Charter Member · 264 posts

RE: Hmmm....

odd..?Mine worked perfectly.How have u been Jim?me putting 200 cars in a coal mine ur crazy. No wait I am LOL.Dave
dh2k3 in Auran's IRC chat.

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Member since Apr-8-03 · 2084 posts

RE: Hmmm....

>A while back, the Windows Update on my system said there
>were new drivers available for the Radeon card, so I
>downloaded it, and promptly lost a lot of performance. I
>finally got rid of them and restored the latest from the ATI
>site, and things have gotten back to normal since. You wil
>get the "unsigned driver" message, but the ATI drivers are
>superior. Errmmm.... Any product drivers you download from M$ will be written by the product manufacturer. In other words, those drivers were ATI drivers.And the "unsigned driver" message? I've never seen that, and I religiously update my drivers when they come out. (roughly every month)-Jeff

Union Pacific fan.

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Charter Member · 5848 posts

Update 1 and 2

Update on the DirectX.cpl, solved that one by re-installing Windows XP. Turns out the standard installation don't have a file named DirectX.cpl, I still don't know where the hell I got a debug version. Dunno why the *&%$#! MS DX 9 claimed its own software wasn't certified by MS either.Update # 2, after trials and tribulations that were Legion:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/11952.htmlI went back to an EARLY beta of PO&N 6 before any signals were added, tore up all the problem track and ran the TDB rebuild, then started laying new track. I'm a long way from finished, still have more signals to add, plus rebuilding all that scenery (MSTS wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to constantly redo the same work you already did 5 times before), but I think I can pronounce the operation a success.PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 6That's the finished trackplan, all towns and industries that have been relocated are labeled in purple. So without all the congestion and everything trying to load at once, does it work?PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 7Yep. Drove a three hour marathon last night in that activity, all display sliders maxed out, no problems other than seriously tanked framerates (dropping as low as 16FPS in some areas on my P4 2.66/Radeon 9700 system). No disappearing scenery, no error inserting/removing, no failed to create SMS object, no send/don't send, just 3 hours of switching and driving. That's strictly a test, for the real thing there shouldn't be such an unreasonable number of loose consists, since (A) it tanks the framerates, and (B) there's not enough empty tracks to drop off cars. Probably go back to the "HEAVY" and "LITE" activities anyway, at least I can now do the heavy without errors.The current PO&N 8 activities have something like 250 loose consists, which seems a reasonable number for "LITE" activities, anyone with a slow computer getting framerate problems with those?

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Charter Member · 270 posts

RE: Update 1 and 2

"The current PO&N 8 activities have something like 250 loose consists, which seems a reasonable number for "LITE" activities, anyone with a slow computer getting framerate problems with those?"Yep!! I've got a P4 1.7/Radeon9800 and I'm dropping just into single figure fps in some places. Most of your excellent route is fine for my fps though Jim. ( It's life Jim, but not as we know it - sorry, couldn't resist that!) Just d'loaded Phil's Australian PO&N - type route to see if my fps improve on that. Got to get an upgraded pc soon I think.Regards, Nick (UK)

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Charter Member · 270 posts

RE: Update 1 and 2

You're right Otto. Guess I'll have to get on some quiz show or other with MSTS as my special subject! (I'd probably get booted off pretty early on though.)Regards Nick (UK)

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Charter Member · 5848 posts

RE: Update 1 and 2

Considering that 1ghz was bleeding-edge state-of-the-art you-can't-afford-it technology when MSTS first came out, I don't think a 1.7ghz system with a 9800 qualifys as "slow". My son's current system is a 1.45ghz AMD with a Ti-4400, and that runs trainsim pretty smooth. You got them ugly shadows turned on or something? PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 8That's really as good as it gets, turning on shadows, dynamic shadows, high detail shadows, and specular lighting eats framerates like crazy without doing anything good. Any FPS problems those should be the first things to go, followed by lowering the visibility slider. Different topic, any PO&N fans with MSTS 1.0 or 1.1, what I mean is does anyone NOT have MSTS 1.2 or the SD40 content update?PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 9 I refrained from using any of these after the 1.2 update came out, but later versions of trainsim are "Version 1.2", so I don't think anyone can buy a new copy of MSTS without those trainsets. I suspect I can use them now without screwing anyone up, since they're probably considered "default" by now, even in backward little countries like Canada.

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Charter Member · 5848 posts

RE: Update 1 and 2

Yeah, ya gotta watch them Canucks, they'll take over your whole route.PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 10PO&N8 Activity Errors – image 11OT, this flag object add-on has American, Canadian, Mexican, and Confederate flags and that's it. I tried downloading some flag gifs and making UK, Dutch, Austrian, and assorted other flags, but the ace file is a bit complicated. Anyone know if there's an international flag object thingy with a larger selection?

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