Is this some sort of joke? (The "NJT Arrow III" EMU)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 01:31 AM (EST)

Delighted I saw that an NJT Arrow III EMU was available in the File Library and downloaded it right away, thinking I'd finally have a fairly prototypical stand-in for a SEPTA Silverliner in my NEC activities.Then I find that it is a Reading-liveried MP54??? To my knowledge, an Arrow III EMU is pretty much identical to a Silverliner... Has the author made a mistake, or is this some kind of bloody joke?

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The "NJT Arrow III" EMU, LoneWolf, Jun-26-04, 01:37 AM, (1) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The "NJT Arrow III" EMU, USRailFan, Jun-26-04, 02:22 AM, (2) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, linkj, Jun-26-04, 09:59 AM, (3) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, USRailFan, Jun-26-04, 10:32 AM, (4) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, linkj, Jun-26-04, 10:39 AM, (5) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, USRailFan, Jun-26-04, 11:13 AM, (7) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, yulbrynner, Jun-26-04, 12:00 PM, (8) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, linkj, Jun-26-04, 01:07 PM, (9) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, yulbrynner, Jun-27-04, 03:38 PM, (17) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, shoskins, Jun-26-04, 11:06 AM, (6) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, chucksc, Jun-26-04, 05:03 PM, (10) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, linkj, Jun-26-04, 05:19 PM, (11) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, chucksc, Jun-26-04, 11:04 PM, (12) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, chucksc, Jun-26-04, 11:05 PM, (13) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, longislandmike, Jun-27-04, 08:31 AM, (14) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, linkj, Jun-27-04, 10:16 AM, (15) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, chucksc, Jun-27-04, 03:04 PM, (16) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, Fodda, Jun-28-04, 04:24 AM, (18) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, yulbrynner, Jun-28-04, 08:38 PM, (19) RE: Is this some sort of joke? (The, Fodda, Jun-29-04, 04:30 AM, (20)

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Um, okay, I'll vote for bloody joke.Seriously though, why don't you contact the author/creator?

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That's a bit difficult to do when there is no readme giving his adress.. The only help is in the blurb in the File Library, where it is said it has been uploaded by a Christopher Petraglia. He has left no means of letting us get in touch with him though (the only readme included is the original readme + the readme of the REAL repainter of the Reading EMU).

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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Gentlemen--I wish I knew what it was. That model uses the Island Electric DLW EMU built by Frederick Dreany and myself, released on 4 April 03. Bill Scott requested and we gave permission for him to release the Reading EMU repaint on 27 April 03.I was surprised to see the Reading EMU gif in the file library on 25 June, and thought Bill Scott was perhaps doing an upgrade, but instead only saw the name Christopher Petraglia. In looking at the files and documentation, they were our original or Bill Scott's repaint files with some name modifications. There was no ReadMe from this author, but our original documentation, as well as Bill Scott's, were included. This author did NOT request permission to release a repaint of our Island Electric work, and I doubt if he asked Bill Scott either. I was unable to locate him through any Forum resource, and subsequently requested that Nels remove the file unless/until we provide permission. It is still in the library as of 26 June/0400 Hawaii time. Island Electric is in no way associated with that release, other than having built the original model.Paul DeVerter got me even more curious with a similar question in the Traction forum, topic http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID12/481.html. That motivated me to download the model and look at the ace files. I thought the author had done some minor tweaks to Bill Scott's work, as his Reading EMU image was used for the library gif, as well as other jpgs that were enclosed in the folder indicated. However, as you can see below, the author took low resolution photo images of an NJT silverliner and pasted them on top of Frederick Dreany's original ace texture images, as re-painted by Bill Scott. Unfortunately the author did not understand the concept of texture mapping, overlap, and so forth, leaving his work very distorted. That's probably why he did not include a screenshot of his own work.Christopher Petraglia: if you read this, please contact Bill Scott, Frederick Dreany, and myself. Our addresses are in the ReadMes you re-published.Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 10:33 AM (EST)

Eugh, that's so ugly I'm glad I deleted it right away.. (no offence intended towards neither you nor Bill Scott or Frederic Dreany, but to the one that pasted the NJT Image on top).Edit: Forgot to mention, I e-mailed Nels Anderson and notified him about this as soon as I unzipped the file and saw something was fishy. I guess he'll take due action, especially after reading your post.

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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Here's what it originally looked like.Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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Yeah, that looks a lot better

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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I was cheated too;I downloaded this EMU to simulate similar trains that I know.
But what I saw has nothing to do with what it was offered. I'm looking for some EMU's like the one in this picture below; this is a repaint of mine, that I use only in my computer.
I cannot add the doors that it has in the middle of the wagon.
I'd like to find the author, to ask his permission to distribute.
Or I'd like to find something similar; is there anything like this available?
The ones I want are from English origin; I need them for a route that I'm planning for the next future; I like these EMU's.
But this last one I downloaded last night, was horrible.

Eduardo
(My E-mail is in my profile)

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Eduardo--If you are looking for the original authors of the unit you repainted, they are Frederick Dreany and myself, the original model file is in the library as dlw_emu.zip and you will find our contact information in the ReadMe. Bill Scott later did the Reading EMU repaint.Your screenshot is interesting because it has some of the underbody equipment removed, as well as some other changes in the shape file and texture mapping work. Lukas Lusser, builder of the Mountain Electric or MountE Route (see http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID12/480.html and many earlier postings), also did some repaints of these and other Island Electric models, and put a center door on our MP-54 repaint set (mp-54_rp.zip and mp54prbc.zip in the file library), which had the lower-resolution full-side texture images.You will find several units of English origin in the file library's Railways and Trolleys/Subways sections. You might also wish to look in UKTrainSim for similar kinds of units.Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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Jeff:Glad to meet you here!
First of all, I'm thankful to you and Frederick for your work.
I have to tell you that the version I downloaded from the library is not called dlw_emu.zip, but rdg_emu.zip; that's the version I repainted.
I just changed the textures, changing the colours, the company's name, I drew a light below the cabin, an at the other side of the cabin, drew it covered by wood, and changes some values in the .wag file, so that the headlight turn on at the right bottom part of the train, as in the units I used to travel. And painted the letters at the middle top of the cabin.
I didn't change any part of the shape, because I cannot and I shouldn't do. So I couldn't put the doors in the centre part, because I'm lacking the stairs there.
Most of my other repaints were a great failure, but this one looked nice for me, and very similar to the EMU's I knew for years.
I'll ask a friend about its real model name, and I'll tell you then, perhaps there's one more similar to these ones, and maybe I'll find the exact model too.
I admit that I'm a beginner in repainting, and have some problems with the Ace file sizes, until I learn how to compress/uncompress well the correct files.I did search in the UKtrainsim libraries, but all I found there are modern EMU's, very different to those I wanted.
I want those EMU's for a real route I'm planning; Anyway I'll have to wait a little; meanwhile maybe I'll get the needed trains.The EMU's I want, I think they were made in London, long ago, and don't use pantographs, but external third rail. But repainting your models, looked very similar indeed.
If there's anything that you think to be incorrect about it, please let me know and it will be fixed.Once again, thank you very much,
I wish you good luck if you're planning to release other models.Regards...

Eduardo
(My E-mail is in my profile)

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>Eugh, that's so ugly I'm glad I deleted it right away.. (no
>offence intended towards neither you nor Bill Scott or
>Frederic Dreany, but to the one that pasted the NJT Image on
>top).
>
>Edit: Forgot to mention, I e-mailed Nels Anderson and
>notified him about this as soon as I unzipped the file and
>saw something was fishy. I guess he'll take due action,
>especially after reading your post. I thought the thing was messed up, as I downloaded it and then tried to set up a train to see what they looked like, withno success.So I went back to the File Library, and they are now GONE!!No great loss.

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 05:05 PM (EST)

Congratulations Jeff you should feel honored! Welcome to the Club now that the Village Idiots/Trolls/pirates have discovered you and started to systematically hack and steal your work...It means you have finally arrived! ROFL..If this keeps up you'll need a designated fly swatter!
Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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You know Chuck, I had you and NALW in mind working through this one. Like you have done, I tried to determine if this was a young lad in need of help or an adult who doesn't care, but not even Nels had any info on him. Maybe it was a joke...I recall someone trolling around the forum a couple months ago suggesting he was about to release some NYCTA repaints, didn't get a response, and primed the pump again, nothing happened. You'd think these guys would want to use a higher-tech product, however...like one of yours... I guess Frederick and I have crossed that threshhold.Aloha, Jeff

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I got just one word to say about this reskin;Mahalo! (and yes I know what it really means - I'm using it in the tourist context )Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 11:07 PM (EST)

> You'd think these guys would want to use
>a higher-tech product, however...like one of yours... Naw we get enough attention from the Village Idiots on our own!
You guys can have this one!

>I guess Frederick and I have crossed that threshhold. Welcome to the Big Time! ROFLMAO!Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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You know there is so much of this crap going on around MSTS lately, I have to ask why? What do you get by stealing someone's work? Money? I don't think so. People here catch on real quick to this sort of stealing, so why do it? So you can say you can do it? You can't be proud of crap like this! Maybe they like to see their names bashed in these forums. Nels needs a committee to watch out for this and other stupid things that make their way to the files, he just has too much to do to really watch every single file to be uploaded. Just my thought on this, it's just happening way too much lately.Mike

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Mike--Agree that a validation process would be a good thing, but this is a free download library (other than the upgraded access cost), I guess we get what we pay for. Such a job could be overwhelming, particularly as new models and techniques continue to be released. It could be very difficult to determine what is common use and what is copyrighted work. In fact, trying to keep up with that would be a worthy task in itself. Perhaps some sort of forum or library index where copyrights could be checked out might be one way to manage it. That assumes modelers would actually refer to it...but at least a tool would be there.An important question to ask is if the repainter is a youngster that needs some help and guidance, or an adult who doesn't care or otherwise. In this case evidence is leaning toward the latter, as we've not heard from Mr Petraglia and he's very likely noticed his repaints are no longer in the library.Actually this is not our first such issue, one of Island Electric's Redbirds had some minor repainting and was put in Atlantic Costal Railway's library this past winter without our permission, and was represented as their own work. It was removed on our demand. Still, I really do believe not everyone has bad intentions, and tried to give Mr Petraglia the benefit of the doubt. Aloha, Jeff Link
Island Electric - West

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> Still, I really do believe not
>everyone has bad intentions, and tried to give Mr Petraglia
>the benefit of the doubt.
And that is very admirable of you Jeff... I too have "tried" to maintain that Christian attitude (not always successfully as many on here can attest. )Hope you still have it after lebentyleven more of these...And you'll soon develop an instinct as which really is a lost soul and which is a Smart A$$ed Bluebeard wanna be!AlohaChuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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YulBrynner... What EMUs are you after specifically? There are a bunch of old Southern stock third-rail EMUs available on UKTS... Check out File IDs 5423 and 5424, and also look at 5411 and 5415.Is that the sort of stock you meant? Mk 1 Carriages converted with pick-up shoes and traction motors.

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Gary:Thanks for the link and for suggesting those models.
No, they are not the ones I want.I used to travel in them some years ago.
Last night I asked a friend, and he told me that now they were all taken out, they are no longer used.
They were called Metropolitan Vicker(s), and I think that they must have been running for nearly a hundred years, because they were the first EMU's brought from England in about 1905, the first "A" wooden coaches. Now the C metal coaches were used until the last years. Last time I travelled there they were still in good shape.
Right now they are all abandoned and used only pulled by some diesel locomotives in some branches; What a pity! The model I repainted looked very similar to the ones I'm looking for.
No hurry, meanwhile, there are many other trains to enjoy.Thanks a lot. Kind Regards...

Eduardo
(My E-mail is in my profile)

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Ahhh... Well I'm sorry I can't help you any more. I'd be interested in seeing some pics of these Metro-Vick EMUs though. Any websites around with pics?Good luck in getting what you want.

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