Air Brake recharge time in MSTS

LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-04 AT 00:02 AM (EDT)

Is there ANYWAY to make the brakes in MTS more realistic? The re-charge time is so short in the sim, {I have been told this by a real engineer} is their anyway to make it as realistic as possible? Lengthen the re charge time??I mean, I was running a 90 car freight with 2 units, and from a 15 pound brake set, it released and recharged in less than 20 seconds. I MEAN FULLY RECHARGED.Or is the sim right and I am wrong on this one?Any help would be appreciated!!
--------------------------------
R.I.P Norfolk and Western,at least I got to know ya
you MAY find me hanging out on the Pocahontas and Radford Div of NSAndy J

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RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, chucksc, Apr-05-04, 00:14 AM, (1) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, brucek, Apr-05-04, 00:54 AM, (2) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, benny4227, Apr-05-04, 09:02 AM, (3) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, plainsman, Apr-05-04, 10:12 AM, (4) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, tchouftchouf, Apr-05-04, 01:11 PM, (5) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, Andy J, Apr-06-04, 05:02 AM, (6) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, derekmorton, Apr-06-04, 09:53 AM, (7) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, tchouftchouf, Apr-06-04, 02:18 PM, (8) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, brucek, Apr-07-04, 01:22 AM, (9) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, tchouftchouf, Apr-07-04, 02:35 AM, (10) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, derekmorton, Apr-07-04, 02:53 AM, (11) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, djt, Apr-07-04, 02:52 PM, (12) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, tchouftchouf, Apr-07-04, 03:45 PM, (13) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, djt, Apr-07-04, 04:54 PM, (14) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, plainsman, Apr-07-04, 05:31 PM, (15) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, tchouftchouf, Apr-08-04, 02:11 AM, (16) RE: Air Brake recharge time in MSTS, djt, Apr-08-04, 12:51 PM, (17)

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Well Andy I'll tell you what...When Bob Boudoin and a few of his friends (including me) 1st started fooling with the physics that was the 1st thing we all jumped on...
You should have heard the howls of disapproval from the entire rest of the community...
Now we at NALW (Bob being us) try real hard to strike a balance and give you some sense of recharge time.... You should probably download Bob's 4.5 physics from the library or better yet get engine mod and apply them through the physics mod function in there.... See if that's still too fast for ya...But I'm guessing here the 30 to 45 mins necessary to recharge your 90 car freight (and even that is probably too fast) while you do nothing but look at the screen is not gonna fly with you or almost the entire rest of the world...Email us and when Bob gets some time he might be able to give you a list of parameters to change to make it as realistic as you can get given the limitations of the game engine...Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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But I'm guessing here the 30 to 45 mins necessary to recharge your 90 car freight while you do nothing but look at the screen is not gonna fly with you or almost the entire rest of the world...Glad you said "almost".I do this now with a 50-car coal drag and three NSWGR 442 locos, although I don't have to wait half-an-hour.Fifteen minutes with the feet up on the computer desk as I continue reading a novel works just fine or, if the urge hits, a snack-break.
Or both.Bruce.

AustRail

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See download khp2_b.zip,it does just that,but is for Kicking Horse Pass equipment,you maybe able to contact the author about it.

Benny Benoit

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-04 AT 10:30 AM (EDT)

Hi Andy,
I am attaching a set of beta V4.7 files which will yield very realistic braking effects. There are several locomotive files which have these kind of braking characteristics in the library here. You install these just like the V4.5 files. Just download the attached .zip file below.
The original V4.5 files were deliberately too fast on recharge, to minimize folks who lost all air, and had to sit for 30 minutes to wait for the trainline to recharge.
These files have a number of other improvments as well. Please be aware these are beta files, and have not been thoroughly scrutinized for typos (I don't think there are any in the files attached). Please let me know your reaction to these files. I may offer an update of V4.7 files down the road?
Note, the antislip line in the .eng files is missing intentionally, this is not an error. This will work much more realistically on lead units. The line would need to be added on trailing units ONLY, for best performance.
Bob Boudoin

Attachments
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/40716906220aa450.zip

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Hello Andy,You can also try "us2wagbr.zip" in the file library (for the default *.wag files).Jean-Louis

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I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses!!Yep Chuck you are right, most folks would scream bloody murder about a 45 minute recharge!,{ I would be hitting the "can" and raiding the fridge! To bad MTS does not have “time compression” like some sims, then it would be more usable Bob THANKS for the files!! I will give them a workout over the weekend, {long weekend off of work}! I will get your v 4.5 files tonightTHANKS for helping me make the sim more like the real thing!Andy J--------------------------------
R.I.P Norfolk and Western,at least I got to know ya
you MAY find me hanging out on the Pocahontas and Radford Div of NSAndy J

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Andy,Check out the 'physics mod' button in EngMod, it will update the physics in a lot of the default rolling stock, and some others.If it misses any, let me know and I will include them for you.Derek

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Or "KHP2_B.zip"
They are for KHP2 route, but I explain what are my references.
Jean-Louis

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-04 AT 01:24 AM (EDT)

To bad MTS does not have “time compression” like some sims, then it would be more usableOh, you can speed up the time - to a max value of 7x, if I recall - by placing the "timecompression" wording after the .EXE file, as a switch.
I can't recall the exact syntax but a search in the forum should bring it up.I can remember that Ctrl + T turned it on, each application speeding it up to the maximum, and Ctrl + Shift + T turned it off, each application slowing it by one step.BruceEDIT!
Would you believe it?!
Here's a current thread about this very subject......http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/22959.htmlCheers!
Bruce.

AustRail

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Thank you Bruce,
May be that will convert some simers to realistic braking.
As for passenger graduated release, this is more fun to approaching the hard engineer work ( even whith the MSTS limitations ).
Whe can dream of a Train Simulator as realistic than Flight Simulator... May be one day...
Jean-Louis

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Jean-Louis,I think we have reasonably shown Microsoft what can be done with a defective engine.We have given them something to strive for.Derek

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Andy J, I doubt that simply altering the “recharge time” is going to help to accurately duplicate real life braking physics, there are too many variables that MSTS cannot duplicate. Temperature plays a very big part in recharge time. A train that takes 20 minutes on 75 degree day could take an hour on a 15 degree day to recover from an emergency brake application. Different types of brake valves will react differently also. In the real world when braking you want to make an initial set of around 4-6 lbs, then you want to round off the reduction to at least 10 lbs. Without the 10 lb reduction you are going to get a slow release which is undesirable when stretch or power braking. When braking like this, you should not be in anything over notch 4 or 5 to ovoid any excessive force on the train (couplers). With any reduction 20 lbs or higher you should come to complete stop before releasing the brakes. This is just a small example of proper braking techniques that from what I have experienced cannot be realistically duplicated in MSTS. The only simulator that even comes close to any of this is Trainmaster.
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Hello Daniel,
The "recharge time" is not the only think that need to be modified to approach the real brakes.
Had you try the "us2wagbr.zip" or/and the "KHP2_B.zip" in the file library?
It seem you are engineer or conductor, I would be interested by your opinion.
TrainMaster as the best braking physics, except for the modern Brake Valve.
Friendly,
Jean-Louis

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tchoutftchouf,Thanks for the file listings I will give them a try. I have experience in train and engine service as well as time as a Train Dispatcher for three class one railroads and a regional (now part of a class one). I think the point I’m trying to get across is that you can’t hand a project like a train simulator off to bunch of programmers and graphic artists and expect a realistic simulator. A few companies that do business with the railroad industry have found this out the hard way. One of which tried to create rail traffic control software without knowledge of railroad rules and operating practices. The only way you are going to get a realistic train simulator is to have people from the railroad industry working right with the programmers and graphic artists. I think that from the excellent talent that has been displayed here in the Train-Sim site, we have the graphic artist part of equation down pretty well. Realistic physics would also go a long way to making MSTS more interesting. I have heard more than few times how people are getting bored with running over some these routes after one or two times. If your train always stops and accelerates like a Porsche it’s going to get boring. If you really have to set yourself up and think ahead (like you do in real life) for that speed restriction two miles down the track things get very interesting. Just like coming down a 2% grade and modulating the dynamics and wondering if they are going to hold the train back without the air. Train Master is proof of this, as I have often overlooked the dated graphics when getting engrossed in trying to improve my braking technique and get through a speed restriction or turnout as smooth as possible (without blowing the restriction or having the train come to a crawl). Improving the physics in MSTS (if it is possible) could go a long way to making it a lot more enjoyable and give the railroad enthusiast a good idea of what is like to operate a actual train. Pentium4/3.4GHz
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-04 AT 05:31 PM (EDT)

Daniel,
Just try the 3 files in .zip under the 4th response to this thread. A lot of the things Jean-Louis incorporates in the files he notes are very similiar in these, but I have also used a much improved method developed by Joe Realmuto and others that will give much better train resistance performance, and the two .eng files incorporate several things which a number of engineers have said substantially improves the locomotive performance. I am not arguing that this version of the simulator has limitations, but just try those three files and see if you are not more favorably inclined.
Bob

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Daniel,
I agree with Bob. If you try the 3 files of the 4th response you will see that some of us are not only train fans, but also have some train hanling experience.
We all trying to make the better from the "KUJU code". Having some superb engines or wagons without good physics is VERY frustrating, this is a big problem with the most of payware or freeware models, and this is a big work to modify all the *.wag and *.eng files. Happily, there are some guys working to make some excellents tools as FCalc, Engine Modifier, Route Riter, Consist Builder...
Jean-Louis

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tchouftchouf, plainsmanThanks for the heads-up on the beta 4.7 eng files. I’m currently changing each entry in my default dash9.eng file, line by line, to match the beta 4.7 dash9-44w.eng file. Is there any easier way to do this? Can specific blocks of info from the dash9-44w.eng file be copied and pasted into the default dash9.eng file. I originally went in and changed every reference in the dash9-44w.eng file from 9-44CW and Dash 9-40CW to match the default dash9.eng file’s dash9 references. This did not work and it crashed the sim. Pentium4/3.4GHz
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