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Why is a thread in which an attack was directed at me only locked, but the thread in which I replied to the locked thread was deleted? Does that mean it is ok to attack me, but not ok for me to defend myself? This is getting to be a crock.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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RE: Question, IcyFire, Sep-04-03, 00:01 AM, (1) RE: Question, kevarc, Sep-04-03, 08:58 AM, (2) RE: Question, ALIAS, Sep-04-03, 09:42 AM, (3) RE: Question, Hack, Sep-04-03, 11:05 AM, (4) RE: Question, chucksc, Sep-04-03, 11:05 AM, (5) RE: Question, delamaize, Sep-04-03, 01:51 PM, (6) RE: Question, kevarc, Sep-04-03, 01:53 PM, (7) RE: Question, delamaize, Sep-04-03, 04:29 PM, (8) RE: Question, xlspecial261, Sep-04-03, 05:05 PM, (10) RE: Question, delamaize, Sep-04-03, 05:21 PM, (11) RE: Question, kevarc, Sep-04-03, 05:39 PM, (13) RE: Question, xgsft, Sep-06-03, 04:29 PM, (26) RE: Question, dgauci, Sep-06-03, 05:03 PM, (27) RE: Question, mdeming, Sep-06-03, 10:12 PM, (28) RE: Question, xgsft, Sep-06-03, 11:06 PM, (29) RE: Question, kevarc, Sep-06-03, 11:30 PM, (30) RE: Question, dgauci, Sep-06-03, 11:39 PM, (31) RE: Question, mdeming, Sep-04-03, 05:45 PM, (14) RE: Question, heffed, Sep-04-03, 11:49 PM, (18) RE: Question, beltontigers, Sep-05-03, 06:12 PM, (19) RE: Question, IcyFire, Sep-05-03, 06:32 PM, (20) RE: Question, FireDragonLightning, Sep-05-03, 08:41 PM, (22) RE: Question, heffed, Sep-06-03, 01:59 AM, (24) RE: Question, dgauci, Sep-05-03, 09:13 PM, (23) RE: Question, DTA, Sep-04-03, 04:44 PM, (9) RE: Question, Nels_Anderson, Sep-04-03, 05:26 PM, (12) RE: Question, beltontigers, Sep-04-03, 08:19 PM, (15) RE: Question, JivaGoswami, Sep-06-03, 12:05 PM, (25) RE: Question, Baldwinbob, Sep-04-03, 11:16 PM, (17) RE: Question, heavymetal91, Sep-05-03, 07:55 PM, (21) RE: Question, Brad 110, Sep-04-03, 09:32 PM, (16) RE: Question, fwbryan, Sep-07-03, 09:59 AM, (32) RE: Question, mdeming, Sep-07-03, 11:24 AM, (33) RE: Question, fwbryan, Sep-07-03, 11:58 AM, (34) RE: Question, chucksc, Sep-07-03, 01:56 PM, (35) RE: Question, mdeming, Sep-07-03, 02:58 PM, (37) RE: Question, Brad 110, Sep-07-03, 06:21 PM, (38) RE: Question, dgauci, Sep-07-03, 08:02 PM, (39) RE: Question, BLW_1946, Sep-07-03, 02:15 PM, (36) RE: Question, delamaize, Sep-07-03, 10:34 PM, (40) RE: Question, dgauci, Sep-07-03, 10:55 PM, (41)

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Kev, I assume full responabilty for removing your post, I got a few alerts on it finally, and Something needed to be done, I removed it because I figured if I locked it, it would spawn more flames. In all fairness, I'll remove the other post too, therefor no one will be left out.

____________________________________________
Shawn K, shawnssk@yahoo.com
Texture dude for TKW & YLW, Forum Mod. Feel free to e-mail me.

The NYO&W.. Running from somewhere to nowhere, But never forgotten
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READ the forum rules!
Have a general question? Try Google
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 09:08 AM (EDT)

Thank you. I just want it to be clear I do defend myself.Though I am wondering if every post I do is going to get an alert. If someone puts up something here and I comment on it, if they don't like my comment, does this mean they will alert it and have it pulled? It come down to if you can't take the heat, don't post a pic of something that will get comments.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>Though I am wondering if every post I do is going to get an
>alert. I am in full agreement on this with Kev.I think maybe start taking note of who it is every time that hits the alert and maybe get rid of those guys or at least tell them to grow up. I am sure 90% of these " alert-ees " are not helping the community a great deal anyways.Just my opinion

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Maybe some of these goofballs just like to cry "wolf." Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 11:09 AM (EDT)

My own personal theory is that Kevin has been targeted by a select group of politically Correct Losers who alert almost every post he writes....
Guess they still haven't gotten over him telling them they have small stacking swivels, eh?Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Just to set the record strait about me, I have only alerted one of post because I beleved it was inaproprate. I did not alert the moderators to the post in question, this was done by one of our fellow members who felt that is was inaproprate. as for the post that started this whole thing, I simply posted the truth as I understood it. I didn't mean to start anything, some people are just always looking for a reason.
Delamaize
"Long Live High Speed Rail In The USA"
--Calling for removal of the immature little children--

Head Locomotive Builder Extraordinaire

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As I did. But mine included fact.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-03 AT 04:39 PM (EDT)

Like I said in a post that has been deleted, if you think you can do a better job, my current project is the PRR A-5s your more than welcome to try your hand at it yourself. I don' think you relise how hard it is to produce stuff for MSTS besides activitys. PS I hope that you relise that everytime you say sometihing more in this forum, you are making people's opition about stronger, wether it be good or bad. edit: Oh and BTW, If yyou take me up on this offer I expect to see progress shot in 1 week that looks better than this

because it took me a week of moddeling to get to his point.
Delamaize
"Long Live High Speed Rail In The USA"
--Calling for removal of the immature little childern--

Head Locomotive Builder Extraordinaire

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This continual "If you don't build routes, you shouldn't complain if one is crap", or "You don't model, so don't complain if one is crap." is a bunch of BS.You don't build automobiles, but I bet you would complain if your new car was in the shop all the time or didn't work like it was supposed to.Apparently the route that started all of this had some major issues. I for one am glad that people such as Kevin alerted the forum as to what these issues were. He saved me from wasting my time downloading it.As far as your own work goes? I think you are a legend in your own mind.I'll leave it at that.Todd

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the problems inthe route were express in the readme that you had to d/l to find out how to get the routes, it didn't need to be said. as for my challen to kevin, I said that because I always see him focus on the bad things in a project only. and almost never the good things. as for myself, I am not a legend in my own mind, I know I need improvement and that I am not god like, but I get sick, like anyone, of seeing people say stuff about people project then never do anything that compairs to what they are complaining about.

Delamaize
"Long Live High Speed Rail In The USA"
--Calling for removal of the immature little children--

Head Locomotive Builder Extraordinaire

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Then you need to get out and read more. And just not on here, I post in quite a few forums and this is the only one I seem to have trouble in. But then in the other forums, they do not put up with kiddie's and trolls.A few you can look at: (Btw, I use kevarc everywhere so you don't have to figure out which one I am.)
www.trains.com
railfan.net
3dtrains.com
MLT
UKTrainsim.com
www.vnerr.com
railroad.netYes, I am highly critical at times. Most of my posts are not hammer on someone posts. But it is easy for small minds to zero in on those that are and forget the rest.

As for the problems were expressed in the readme - Why not post in the forums before someone takes the time to do the download? It was a large one.Is challen suppoosed to be challenge? Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Todd, all things consitered a new car costs anywhere from $20,000-$60,000+. Now, if I bought one and it was a POC I would be furious as I spent $20,000 on it. Freeware addons are free. The only thing spent to get them is time. Thats why most people find it insulting if you say a free model is crap. I have tried my hand at skinning a TA F-3 and,even though Verne made it easier, it was still tough. So consiter that before bashing someones work.

Mike Suitts

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I think there are two different issues being presented here.I agree with the sentiment that if something is freeware, it is not okay to bash someone for it. Personally when I see freeware work I don't care for I just pass it by, but I wouldn't publicly criticize someone for it. That just falls under the category of basic politeness and acting civil towards each other.On the other hand if someone creates a post asking for public attention and feedback on their work they should be prepared for peoples honest opinions. When giving feedback under such a circumstance I don't think it is improper to say what you really think as long as the praise/criticism is centered on the work and not personally on the author. If the author does not want to hear possible criticism of their work, don't solicit public attention for it. No one ever learns or improves if they are never subjected to honest appraisals whether good or bad.

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Bottom line is if you post a picture, a file, a comment then ask for feedback, do NOT complain when the answers you get are not what you like. I have always taught my kids never ask a question that you dont want to hear the answer to. The other issue is how will you respond to negative reactions to your work. If a negative response makes you sulk and cry, then dont ask for opinions. The best thing to do is learn from it so you can do better work. Being a professional musician since I was a teenager I have heard all kinds of comments, good, bad, and a lot that are not repeatable. However the worst reaction is stone cold silence. Tell me it sucks, its great, your an a$$hole, whatever, but being ignored is the worst. So when you get a comment about your work that you dont care for, remember that you asked for comments.

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You make a exellent point dgauci.

Mike Suitts

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If you post a pic, whether or not you specifically ask for feedback or not, it is open for comment. By the fact that you posted it you are implying you want comments. A person should not post if he cannot stand to hear that they are not good.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-03 AT 11:45 PM (EDT)

Kevin, I'm in agreement with you.>>Dennis

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" I don' think you relise how hard it is to produce stuff for MSTS besides activitys. " The other side of this issue is if you cannot take someone critiquing(?) your work don't build it. As an example I can build almost anything, and have done so for 25 years. My borther however cannot hammer a nail straight. However he has an eye for detail that I do not have and as a result his strengths compliment mine. If someone tells you you missed a detail, and you throw a hissy fit I would stromgly suggust to you that you need to grow up. Different people have different skills. I doubt very seriously any of us are that sensitive at work that when someone tells us we missed something that we feel all hurt and tell that person off. I have had people like that as employees. I fired them. I have had Keven rate my work. I enjoyed it because there was no doubt as to what was wrong, and it was short and to the point. One of the worst things that can happen to an artist is to be ignored. Take the comments good and bad and use them to become a better artist.
Mike

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>I don' think you relise how hard it is to produce stuff for
>MSTS besides activitys. No, I think he does understand. I remember a post of him saying that he tried a repaint and it sucked, so he never did it again.I think what you are failing to realize is that by asking for opinions, you'll get them. You are also failing to realize that even people who don't repaint have eyeballs, and have a very good idea of what looks good, and what doesn't.I am personally of the opinion that the "it's so hard" whiners are full of BS. Should the difficulty or the time spent on a project overcome any hope of an aesthetically pleasing result? No! Just because it's time consuming doesn't earn the right to a biased or "soft" opinion of your efforts. Someone saying "yeah, that's awesome" just because it takes a long time to do instead of the quality of workmanship would account for absolutely diddly to me.So no, I think Kevin is totally qualified to judge the quality of a repaint. Whether or not you feel he understands your pain is really irrelevent. -Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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I don't think that people say that repainting is hard are full of B.S...some people aren't as "smart" as you Jeff...And what makes you so qualified...better yet..link me to your work..and i'm not talkin about Metallica's wanna be "music"Kyle Penn
kfp@vvm.com
*I just wanna go to sleep and never wake up...i'm so tired of life*

"all my life i've been searching for something"

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Sorry, I gotta back Jeff on this one, smarts has nothing to do with repainting, using your mouse to manipulate the controls in your graphics application does, I've repainted a ton of stuff, And based on my downloads, People must be pretty satisfied with it (I accept criticism of any kind, but no one gives it) Repainting is not hard at all. Mastering the techniques are. Am i a master? hell no! but i don't let it bother me, I paint because I feel like it, If someone don't like it, Tough darts, if someone wants to call my work garbage, Feel free too, just have a damned good reason so I can correct the issue. I'm invincible to having my feelings hurt, cant happen.

____________________________________________
Shawn K, shawnssk@yahoo.com
Texture dude for TKW & YLW, Forum Mod. Feel free to e-mail me.

The NYO&W.. Running from somewhere to nowhere, But never forgotten
____________________________________________
READ the forum rules!
Have a general question? Try Google
Looking for an answer to a Train-Sim Question? Search the Forum Archive First
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I agree with Icy...I'd rather someone like Kevin, who has the guts to actually comment on people's work, compared to the other people who say "Great job, When can I d/l?" When someone posts a WIP screenshot...90 % of the time it is to get critisism..good and the bad. You never can get good at something with peopl giving you false ideas.
Don't get me wrong, it's great to have comments like "Nice work"Those are the comments I make, because, quite frankly, I don't know near as much as some of the other people here, So I can't back up any critisism.My Shell Hopper car has (I think) about 470 d/ls. Did people d/l this because they liked the picture, or because they wanted one, or becuase they d/l everything...dunno. But..I havent had one single e-mail about it, so I guess i did a okay job for my first try. But if I was to u/l something with a blurry spot, or misspelled word, etc..I'd like a comment so I can make the changes ASAP..Blah blah blah

Jay
http://www.freewebs.com/peterbiltsrule

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-Sigh-
-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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I'm with you on this one Jeff. I don't have to be able to personally paint a Rembrandt to know whether or not I like it. The ease or difficulty of creating it doesn't matter, different people have different levels of skill and aptitude.In fine art one mans treasure is another mans trash, not everyone is going to like or dislike everything in the same way. All the author has to do is create something he/she is happy with. If others like it as well all the better. If not, oh well, you only need to please yourself.

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Yeah Chuck, and you never use the alert of course. ROLF!I have never done an alert about anybody, and that can be proved by the Mods on here. I have never called anyone (crude) names either, unlike some. Just because you cannot spell in Latin, there is no need to get bitter! LOL! David

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I see no evidence of this. There are still very few alerts being generated.Give the mods some credit too...just because a message is alerted does not automatically mean that it gets locked or deleted. Alerts that are not valid can and will be ignored.

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Hmmm Politically Correct individuals..I thought i smelled Larkie roaming...lolIn all seriousness here, I do think people target Kev a little more just because he has the testicular fortitude to say what he thinks...I think a good rule of thumb for these people is if you can't stand the heat...get away from the fire...Alot of Kev's remarks, while bold, are truthful and are the things we want to say...Kyle Penn
kfp@vvm.com
*I just wanna go to sleep and never wake up...i'm so tired of life*

"all my life i've been searching for something"

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I ME MINE
I once alerted a posting of my own!! (Had mis-posted a picture) Nels, you told me to just let it ride because it would river off into obscurity pretty quickly ... but no ... I could not stand the red X and you kindly complied. Therefore ... I now need to report myself as an inappropriate alerter. But seriously, what you say about “give the mods some credit” rings right here. The response to alerts is not automatic.
jivajiva

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>>>My own personal theory is that Kevin has been targeted by a select group of politically Correct Losers<<<I'll think on this Charlie and get back to you tomorrow.Bob & O'Riley

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Whom ever attacks kev except in fun is an idiot, He's friends to a lot of us on here, and has made a lot of contibutions in the form of advice to problems, and Activities, and just being there to chat with.I'm with youkevJoel

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Good questions. If your purpose is to find an answer (instead of, say, grinding your ax) I think you'd do better sending them direct to Nels or the moderators (or both).Brad Meyer

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...and it had been so quiet - and civil - for the past two weeks. But Kevin is back, as any good psychologist could have predicted when he left in a huff. Such people need the attention and adulation.So this board will again become a Spectator Sport - tune in daily to see who Kev has slammed, and how. Then perhaps add an immature comment or two.Kevin is NOT the self-appointed moderator, nor should we have to expect, and accept, his unkind flames if we post. Gratuitous criticism is still uncivil, uncouth, and immature. Anybody who thinks differently should check their premises.Do not let the barbarians run this board, or the civilized world, into the ground.fwbryan

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Oh yes, lets become a mutual admiration society! From now on the only acceptable reply to a post of someones work is "WOW THAT IS EXCELLANT!!! WHEN CAN I DOWNLOAD IT?" We must make sure in this pc age that no one's work is rated or that no ones is better than anyone elses. I bet the same people who whine and go crying to mommy when someone does not like their work, would accept second rate health care, or auto repair, or even poorly cooked food. Lets all be extreemly carefull so we don't upset these poor little people.

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If you knew me, you would realize what a total non-sequitor your reply was. Check your premises and re-read my original message, carefully, before you start a flame war and just prove my point.fwbryan

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Hey FWBryan I too read it as you were endorsing political correctness instead of intellectual honesty...
Try rephrasing it for us barbarians....
BTW, I just checked my premises and all I noticed was the Grass needed Cut! '-)Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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The point I have been trying to make here is simple. This is a forum about a computer program. If anything that goes on here is so meaningfull that it causes you to be upset, I would kindly say that you need to get a grip on whats important. This is about a train-sim. Hardly what I would call meaningfull. Does what Keven or Chuck or anyone else here for that matter make a big impression on my life? No. This is a hobby, a past time, etc etc. Lets keep it in perspective. People get all upset and throw hissy fits about this board. I don't let what my ex wife says bother me, should I rate this board or this simulator anywhere near that level? I don't think so. If this kind of thing bothers you, then you need to look at yourself and ask why. Anyway enough of this bullshit, lets let this die.

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I read it as endorsing common courtesy over rudeness. A matter of style rather then content. I, for one, think there is ample room between "This is great. I have to have it." and "This is crap and MUST be fixed.". Brad Meyer

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>Hey FWBryan I too read it as you were endorsing political
>correctness instead of intellectual honesty...That's how I read it also. I'm in California so I'm used to this kind of public thinking. Image rather than substance, good feelings rather than honesty. I'm not endorsing rudeness, just truthfulness.

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-03 AT 02:16 PM (EDT)

being blessed (or cursed, as the case may be) with the ability to generally see both sides of an issue, I fail to see anything productive in continuing this thread. an attack worded in flowery english is still an attack - a helpful reply is likewise, even though it may lack precise wording...all of us - young, old, and somewhere in between - are here because we share some facets of a common interest, but we are a very diverse lot. in the end, respect begets respect, and acrimony creates more of the same...in this world, the definitions of the terms 'barbarian' and 'civilzed' often lie in the mind's eye of the beholder...'Can't we all just get along....' R. King

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....and this this is why I havn't said anything in this post for over 15 posts. I got my point acrost a long time ago, it just happenes that some people understood me and some didn't.Now lets let this one die and get back to trains.

Delamaize
"Long Live High Speed Rail In The USA"
--Calling for removal of the immature little children--

Head Locomotive Builder Extraordinaire

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>....and this this is why I havn't said anything in this post
>for over 15 posts. I got my point acrost a long time ago, it
>just happenes that some people understood me and some
>didn't. Some of us understood you, we just don't agree.

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