MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car

The new SD-40 download includes a new caboose and gondola car. When I start ANY of the new default consists that are included with the new SD-40, there are at least TWO of the gondolas coupled together, even in the short consist with the caboose. However, they uncouple from each other as soon as I move the locomotive forward. They will not couple together if I back up to the uncoupled gondola. I edited the .wag file coupler break to 3.7e7.n 3.7e7.n. Same results. Has anyone else run into this?Anthony

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RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, JoeDiamond, Oct-18-02, 05:24 PM, (1) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, DTA, Oct-18-02, 06:48 PM, (2) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, AJW, Oct-18-02, 07:22 PM, (3) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, Stooopid_person, Oct-19-02, 02:54 AM, (4) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, sniper297, Oct-19-02, 02:18 PM, (5) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, AJW, Oct-19-02, 04:53 PM, (6) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, sniper297, Oct-19-02, 05:24 PM, (7) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, chuckzeiler, Oct-19-02, 05:44 PM, (8) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, metallica2126, Oct-19-02, 06:35 PM, (9) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, sniper297, Oct-19-02, 09:56 PM, (10) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, dvdhoven, Oct-20-02, 02:03 AM, (11) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, dejoh, Oct-21-02, 09:40 PM, (16) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, sniper297, Oct-21-02, 10:40 PM, (17) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, Stooopid_person, Oct-22-02, 04:56 AM, (18) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, Stooopid_person, Oct-20-02, 04:00 AM, (12) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, sniper297, Oct-20-02, 12:27 PM, (13) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, dvdhoven, Oct-20-02, 12:35 PM, (14) RE: MSTS 1.2 Problem with new gondola car, plainsman, Oct-20-02, 12:47 PM, (15)

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We did a covered hopper and a reefer in addition to the caboose. There was not a gondola included as far as I know.Conn McCarthy
TrainArtisan

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Wouldn't know a gondola from a reefer, but the default activities work well for me.David

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>We did a covered hopper and a reefer in addition to the
>caboose. There was not a gondola included as far as I know.
>
>Conn McCarthy
>TrainArtisan Thanks for the reply, Conn. The consist I referred to above is listed in MSTS as: SD40-2, 2GON, ICAB. It shows two open gondolas and the caboose. However, the coupling problem no longer exists.I was away from the computer for a few hours, and when I returned, booted up and started MSTS, everything worked perfectly. I'm guessing, but perhaps the downloaded files were not fully installed because I may not have restarted the computer after downloading. All's well that ends well.Anthony

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And why must you restart the computer? It was only installing trains and a few activities. I get the message to restart after installing.-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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Hee-hee, you never know with this goofy sim, sometimes drinking root-beer instead of coke makes the route editor crash less often, so having a reboot fix an oddball problem wouldn't surprise me a bit.They used a mix of old and new cars for the consists, the "gondolas" they refer to are the same us2bnsfcar things that came with the original game. In the original default consists, if you scroll down and place "1xboxcar" in the list, you get whatever this thing is, and I suppose it most closely resembles a gondola, since it don't look like a boxcar. Of course they also have the "2 Dash 9, 20 boxcars" and "2 Dash 9, 40 boxcars" consists, which have 2 dash 9s as advertised, but 20 or 40 autoracks instead of boxcars. They did get it right once, GP38-2, 3 boxcars actually has 3 boxcars, and scrolling way down the list the single boxcar is really a boxcar. Kinda makes you wonder how long the late-night sessions lasted when they were scrambling to meet the deadline! Anyway, here's a shot of the car in question between 2 of Xacto's 50 foot gondolas:I did have trouble with the UPoldgon from the file library (reskinned us2bnsfcar) not wanting to couple, and any consist it was in didn't want to couple either, when I first got the PO&N SD-40s. Might be something about the combination of the SD-40 and the default gondola (if that is a gondola), but why it usually works and sometimes don't is just another MSTS mystery.

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Until I read Sniper's contribution, especially the part about "usually works and sometimes don't," I was reluctant to jump back into this thread that I started.After me saying that EVERYTHING now runs well, I've again had a few coupling problems with the downloaded new "gondola" AND the caboose. After adding the caboose to a consist, it would not couple to the car in front of it -- not necessarily the "gondola." I tried a few different variations, including (finally) substituting a different caboose. When the substitute caboose did not couple either, and I zoomed in closer, it looked like the couplers were not in alignment: one appeared higher than the other. I then changed the car in front of the caboose, and they coupled.What causes this alignment problem, and how is it corrected?Anthony

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Beats me, probably have to hunt over in the loco design forum for that answer.Coupling (
Type ( Automatic )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 5e6N/m )
Damping ( 1e6N/m 1e6N/m )
Break ( 1.1e7N 1.1e7N )
r0 ( 20cm 30cm )
)The line "r0 ( 20cm 30cm )" might possibly be the height and length of the coupler bounding box. I gotta try that same consist with the geep instead of the SD40, I suspect the SD40 shape itself may be the problem. Altho it could also be the "downloaded new "gondola"", maybe that has a bug that only gets triggered by the SD40. Just to clear up something you may still be confused about, the "downloaded new "gondola"" was neither new nor downloaded, the only new part is the new .con files that mix the old cars in with the new ones. If you look at the old "dash 9 - 40 cars (mixed goods).con" you'll see a bunch of those in there.

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My guess is that it's a bounding box problem. I don't believe that coupler alignment has anything to do with it. Here's the default Dash 9 with the default 20 intermodal consist. It gets over the road just fine with this alignment.Hit the CTRL and + key (on the keypad) to toggle on the bounding box view.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-02 AT 06:41 PM (EDT)

Could anyone tell me the route used in response number 5, from sniper297 is?

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That's in Van den Hoven on the Port Ogden & Northern. No weeds in version 5 in the file library (po&nver5.zip), hadn't been invented yet, but the rest of the scenery is pretty much there. If you're brave and foolhardy;http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/13339.htmlThere's a beta of version 6, Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here.Bounding box might be it, I tried to duplicate the problem with the same SD40-2 2gon 1 caboose consist, breaking it up and reassembling it in various orders using the front coupler. The caboose is definitely wierd, tho, gets coupler overlap at both ends, unless the gon and the SD have the same problem. Anybody notice the #5 inside caboose cabview is working after recoupling? Wasn't doing that with some of the earlier cupola cabeese, you had to save & reload to get the #5 view back after uncoupling from the caboose.

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Hi,Funny, when the cars are too close or too wide, everybody cries inmediately: Bounding Boxes!
But Bounding Boxes are not causing this. It is the length of the car or engine.
Change the Size parameter in the .wag file of the Caboose to:
Size ( 3.24m 4.249m 12m )
and for savety the Inertia box to:
InertiaTensor ( Box (3.24m 4.249m 12m) )The lenght was 11.65m.
The size calculated from the Bounding Box is 11.10m (2 * 5.55), this means that for the two couplers only .55m was left. And .275 for one coupler is a way too short. I think a coupler is about .5m long. So the size can be more then 12m, but it looks fine to me on the pictures. Attached is a changed wag file for the caboose.The Dick van den Hoven

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3db245ff5eb4340a.zip

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Coupler just plain won't work. I started out to do some switching on the PO&N, with the SD40s (two engines). When I un-coupled the engines to pick up some cars,( default cars ) not only would it not pick them up, but I cound'nt couple to any cars in the whole yard. I tried to go back to the original consist, no luck. This is a sharp engine, with the new sounds and cab, and I really don't want to retire it to Sniper's old train shed. Will there be some sort of fix? Its a great engine for the long hauls, but definately a dud in the yard, until the coupler is fixed. I would also like to add the wheel squeaks that are famous on the U.P. Big Blow, when you brake below 10 mph.Any help would be appreciated.
Dejoh

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Hey, DTTK! Kept it alive this time. I dunno, I think Dick needs to work his hacking magic on that SD40 shape, something about it has never been right. If you D/Led that hack I made for the brakes and cabview, and you missed the patch:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3db0ec40601ca037.zipThen you got chain couplers instead of automatic, which would definitely cause it to refuse to recouple. The newest Route Riter has a thing that will check brake & coupler compatabilities, and allow you to switch from one to the other with a point & a click.

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>Then you got chain couplers instead of automatic, which
>would definitely cause it to refuse to recouple. The newest
>Route Riter has a thing that will check brake & coupler
>compatabilities, and allow you to switch from one to the
>other with a point & a click. Conbuilder, 1.5.1, can change the coupling and horsepower.
-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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>Anybody notice the #5 inside caboose cabview
>is working after recoupling? Wasn't doing that with some of
>the earlier cupola cabeese, you had to save & reload to get
>the #5 view back after uncoupling from the caboose. Microsof secretly put a fix?-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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Hee-hee, well, assuming it actually is fixed (I haven't done that much experimenting with it, only noticed that it did it the one time), I doubt it was MS that fixed it, had to be train artisan.Thanks for the patch, Dick, I think that's what most people are referring to when they say "bounding box", not the one in the ESD file but the line in the .eng or .wag file that defines the collision boundaries. I remember with some of the earliest add-on models they made the mis\*.*teak of having one number bigger than the other and it didn't work, the engines & cars would bounce off of each other without coupling.
Nice hacking job, guess we know why you got your own city!

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<big smile> Dick van den Hoven

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Hey Sniper,
If you would drink Double Cola or Delaware Punch, it would probably work all the time..hehe. Have not seen Delaware Punch for 20 years though.. maybe it is available only in Delaware now??
Bob

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