Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People

Well coming back on the ZLCNS, we are allowed to run 75mph since the line has gone through rehab here in Arkansas. Those SD70's ride fairly well @ 75 than I thought they would. Even though max speed is 70 you can do up to 76 before you get a penalty application. Well coming through the small town of Emmett AR we were cruising along @ 74 mph and we are approaching a dangerous crossing. A tree line obstructs the view of trains coming from the west. Well I thought nothing of it and all of a sudden as we were about 11 car lengths away from the crossing a car putts across. It is a elderly couple. But the engineer was sounding the horn at least a lil over a half mile away because we were travelling pretty fast. They were looking in the other direction from what I can tell so I told my engr to let off the throttle and break the speed down. But it was too late, they looked around and saw us approaching and just froze up. I closed my eyes right before the impact. All I heard was a thud. From then I just laid my head in the desk. I could hear my engr saying NO NO NO. It took us over a mile to get stopped. My engr just broke down on his side of the engine and I just sat there
trying to grasp the reality of it. Its hard for me to realize that the train I wasd on hit someones parents, and that they will not be able to join them for christmas. I hate that I have just ruined christmas for some people. I have searched my soul and searched and made sure that all necessary steps were taken right before the accident. "I know we blew the horn, I know we blew the horn" Thats all I could think about. We were told that we hit the car right in the center and it wasnt much of it left. When I exited the engine I went out the back, I did not want to go out of the front. I then left for the mandatory drug test and I got to go home. I have spent these last two days trying to tell myself that I didnt do anything wrong. I was not as distraught as my engineer was because this is the second fatal grade crossing accident he's been in. But I know how he feels. So people im telling you to please, always, stop, look, and listen. Well since im at home im tyring to enjoy the CSX Super Set. And keep me all in your prayers.

If you're gonna do it, do it with precision.

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RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, mdeming, Dec-09-03, 01:43 PM, (1) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, jlucero4, Dec-09-03, 01:52 PM, (2) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, tchouftchouf, Dec-09-03, 01:53 PM, (3) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, VR6MAN, Dec-09-03, 02:24 PM, (4) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, FireDragonLightning, Dec-09-03, 02:58 PM, (5) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Macster, Dec-09-03, 04:44 PM, (6) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, SVTS, Dec-09-03, 04:54 PM, (7) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, JonN, Dec-09-03, 05:34 PM, (8) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, TrainFreak, Dec-09-03, 06:18 PM, (9) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, CRSD40, Dec-09-03, 06:29 PM, (10) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Cell0518, Dec-09-03, 07:16 PM, (12) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, sd70mac666, Dec-09-03, 07:48 PM, (14) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, ASR_Q301, Dec-09-03, 07:13 PM, (11) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, ssw_96, Dec-09-03, 07:36 PM, (13) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, parailfan312, Dec-09-03, 08:01 PM, (15) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, davereage, Dec-10-03, 09:00 AM, (23) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, LAHDPOP, Dec-10-03, 12:04 PM, (24) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, chazlee1, Dec-09-03, 08:19 PM, (16) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, dhammerman2003, Dec-09-03, 08:40 PM, (17) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, jtr1962, Dec-09-03, 11:49 PM, (18) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Frisco2, Dec-10-03, 01:07 AM, (19) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, IcyFire, Dec-10-03, 01:38 AM, (20) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, hhdawrs, Dec-10-03, 02:23 AM, (21) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, precision, Dec-10-03, 07:34 AM, (22) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Grimace780, Dec-10-03, 03:13 PM, (25) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, NW 1218, Dec-10-03, 04:20 PM, (26) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, rdfox, Dec-10-03, 04:34 PM, (27) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, parailfan312, Dec-10-03, 04:42 PM, (28) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Gixxer86g, Dec-10-03, 05:43 PM, (29) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Poltergeist, Dec-10-03, 08:12 PM, (31) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, LAHDPOP, Dec-10-03, 07:50 PM, (30) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, AEM7AC 920, Dec-10-03, 09:32 PM, (32) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, heavymetal91, Dec-11-03, 02:03 AM, (33) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, SD70MAC, Dec-11-03, 01:39 PM, (34) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Boilerbuster, Dec-11-03, 07:39 PM, (35) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, Boilerbuster, Dec-11-03, 07:54 PM, (36) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Dec-11-03, 08:15 PM, (37) RE: Tragedy Strikes, Look Listen & Live People, sd70mac666, Dec-12-03, 05:18 AM, (38)

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Sorry. It was not your fault, but that is little comfort. However, realize that thats a lot better way to die than laying in a hospital bed hooked up to machines as your body slowly quits working. My wife works as an RN and sees people in the last stages of life on a consistant basis. Its never easy. They both went quick, and neither one will be left alone. And yes our prayers are with you.
Mike

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Sorry to hear about the accident, Pete. No matter how hard you try to get the message out about crossing safety, there will always be some people who just can't wait a few minutes for a train to pass.
Was this a lighted or gated crossing? If not, it sure sounds like it would be a candidate for one. You and the engineer will be in my prayers.Jordan L.

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I understand, as engineer, I hit a women trying to suicide... as I was riding at about 210 km/h, she was sure to die! And it was the mother day...
All my fiendship.
JLC

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Sorry to hear this, its not any of your guys fault that these things happen, only bad decisions by others. Again, sorry to hear this.

Andrew O

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Really sorry, you'll be in my prayers.Jay

www.freewebs.com/peterbiltsrule

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Terribly Sorry Pete...i have seen any many close calls while railfanning, i'm always shocked on how people twiddle their thumbs when going over a grade crossing... they know how fast a train goes and can go..yet they still ignore it.You'll be in my prayers...it wasn't your fault, the horn is the only thing u really can do to warn people..sadly it happened this time of the year......
Best of luck to u and the engr.

Brian E. Bundridge
Seattle, Wa
FoamersNW - Eight Ball

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Hard to imagine what that must have been like. I can only agree with the others, that it wasn't your fault, and although it has come at a bad time of the year, you surely had to expect that one day it would happen, just as it did for your partner. You did everything you could, and there was nothing more that could have been done. If you think otherwise, than you are only hurting yourself.Chris Bogley
Syracuse New York
www.msnusers.com/highballphoto

3rd shift production, Krispy Kreme, East Syracuse NY. www.krispykreme.com

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 05:35 PM (EST)

Well this is tragic, but on another angle to this topic, I think that all the kids out there who want to be engineers need to consider that if they actually do get to be hoggers, that it's almost a foregone conclusion that something like this will happen to them during their career, and when it does, the knowledge that it wasn't their fault and they did everything they possibly could will not make it one bit easier for them, even if the victim was trying to commit suicide...Jonathan Nikiforovs.
Milepost 180, CP Belleville Sub.Repainter for Yonder Locomotive Works.

"A crictic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased - he hates all creative people equally." - Lazarus Long

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I'm not of the religious kind, so no prayers from me... But you still have my deepest symphaties. Something like that cannot be an easy thing to live with

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You will certainly be in my prayers.

-----------------------------

Kyle Norek, Milepost 76 on the NS Buffalo Line
MSN Messenger: crsd40@hotmail.com

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>You will certainly be in my prayers. Mine too.

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I see that all the time at the Amtrak station here, me and the conductor just watch it. And wonder what kind of brain cells these people have.One time I was in the school bus with a load of kids, on a fielsd trip and I was about to go, but then I heard the bell ring and I had to stay. This idiot that's right behind me thought it would be nice to pass me on the left cause I had the right lane blocked off. THe train missed him by about maybe 10ft. If the engineer would've hit him I would've been hit too assuming he hit anywhere from the hood to the door. Snce my bus has a radio I can keep in touch with the dispatcher with on NECR (who is a close friend of my wife's), I radioed the engineer and asked if he was okay because he hit the emergency brakes. He was going about 25mph when this happened. He said yeah I'm fine are you okay, I replied in the affirmative then he asked if the kids were okay. Because he knew what time I'd be passing by (cause it's an everyday thing, I get to the crossing as he's leaving or just about to leave). Again I replied in the affirmative.
Then there are some people when I'm in the bus that will stop right on the tracks and wait to see what I will do. I'm like Go you fuc*ing piece of brainless shi* Never mind what I'm doing. I don't have my lights on, don't sit on the tracksBut anyways my thoughts are with you
Dr. SatanI'm otherwise known as the SatanTrain

High on the booze
fade to blue
nine inch howl brave tonight
chopper coming in you hope
Orange Crush: R.E.M.

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I am deeply sorry to hear about this. My prayers go out to you, the engineer and the family of the elderly couple. As you said, the only thing you can do is sound the horn a lot, which you did, there for it was an accident! Take care of yourself mate, as I said, my prayers are with you! >Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com

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Yes man sorry to hear about that, I saw it on the news, they showed a piece of the car. And the sad part is that the family was trying to blame the train crew for "running too fast". They claimed that "if the train wasnt going so fast, their people might still be alive". That really made me mad. Im sorry that it happened, but placing the fault on the railroad, as all tv stations do, was wrong.
Not without first investigating all circumstances. But Pete im sorry that it happened and i'll be by to see you one day this week.
You'll certainly be in our prayers.

The best railroad there ever was

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So sorry to hear about this...I still cannot understand why people don't pay attention at crossings. Nine times out of ten, the crews are not to blame. BTW, what railroad was this on?

Tim Herman (parailfan312)
MP 98 - Norfolk Southern Harrisburg Line
Hershey, PA USA

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>And the sad part is that the
>family was trying to blame the train crew for "running too
>fast". They claimed that "if the train wasnt going so fast,
>their people might still be alive". I know that family is going through a rough time, but it's really terrible of them to blame to train crew. The car entered the crosing when the train was only 11 car lengths away, going a bit slower wouldn't have made one bit of difference.Few things make me angrier than people who try to blame other people for something, when it was actually their stupidity (or the stupidity of the one they're defending) that caused the incident in the first place.I know it's small comfort Precision, but at least you know you did nothing wrong. My thought are with you.

Dave Reage
Halifax, Canada

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What TV station was it? Call letters, please.
Thanks,
Pop

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Sorry to hear that, my friend.....people just don't realize what happens to the crew when such an accident happens, especially around this time of year....my prayers are with you, and I know that time heals all wounds. Sometimes getting back with your friends at work can be the best medicine around. Take care...

Happy Rails,
Chaz
(BNSF Engineer)
<>

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Wow, sorry to hear about this. This incident reminds me of the Cary/ Fox River Grove train crash (train vs. school bus). In case you don't know what happened let me tell you. About 9 years ago along the C&NW-NW line now UP-NW , there was a school bus that was too big. Picture this between stop light and rr tracks there is 15-20ft gap between them and the school bus was bigger than that so it extended onto the rails. What happened was the Metra train that went through hit the bus and killed 30+ kids that day. Now they installed stoplights before the xing so cars will stop at the light before the tracks. I remember that my cousin was supposed to be on the bus that day but instead he got a ride (thank God).It just goes to show you that car vs. train vs. pedestrain don't mix.
You'll be in my prayers.Dave H.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 11:53 PM (EST)

I know the knowledge that you and your engineer did nothing wrong is small comfort here. The sooner all grade crossings are eliminated the better. Educating the public on grade crossings seems to be hopeless, and I was particularly annoyed when someone here said on the news they were trying to blame the train for going too fast. You were 1 mph under the speed limit. I hope this fact finds its way into the news as well even though it's not as sensationalist as everything else the news regularly reports.In any case, you have my sympathies and I really hope you'll get through this all right. I know it may not mean much when I say that you didn't ruin somebody's Christmas, they ruined it for themselves, but that's the truth of the matter here. As I've said many times on these forums, grade crossings just plain shouldn't exist any more. Nobody should have to go through what you're going through on account of someone else's impatience or stupidity.

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Pete, I’ve been sitting here just stunned, not sure what to say to you. By you sharing with us you may probably saved one or more our lives by making us think about the next time we approach a railroad crossing as a driver it is my responsibility to stop, look, and listen. Thank You for saving my life.I will keep you and your coworker in my prayersDave

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I'm gonna sound cold and Methodical Here, But so be it.Train has the right of way, It's thats simple.
Frankly, If people want to disregard safety -- regardless of age.. The deserve what they get, My sympathies go out to the crew, and the vehicles passengers, The true Victims. Not the idiots behind the wheel.

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Pete:Wish there was something meaningful to add to help you and your driver. Thinking about you both.Herb

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Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. Im doing better now thanks to you all's uplifting comments. Yes I wish this would not have happened around this time of the year, especially this time. But I really got all hot under the collar when ssw called me and told me about the "speed of train" comment. I beleive if I had been present there would have been a real big commotion.
When you hire out, they warn you of things like this, but you're usually like "uh yeah ok". But when it happens its a totally different ballgame. But thank you all and each anmd every one have a merry christmas.

If you're gonna do it, do it with precision.

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Pete,Whatever you do, do not spend time wondering about what you could have or should have done. The driver of the vehicle made a mistake and unfortunately paid for it. My prayers are with you.
Gary Cameron
Grande Prairie "The last civilized stop before Alaska," AB
Canada

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Pete, I am so sorry man. The horn is the only way to keep poeple out of your way and you did all you could. I am not religous, but my deepest sympathies go out to you, your engineer, and the family of the dead couple.Later John Means
KLW Sound and Activity Designer
LONG LIVE THE F40C!

Visit my website at www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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Let me add that, while I just saw this for the first time (went a couple of days without checking the forum), my thoughts are with you, too... I've seen my share of near-misses at grade crossings from my car, and every time, I start telling myself something that may seem cold, but which I find helps me deal with a tragedy caused by idiocy: "It's Darwin in action." As I said, it's cold, but it helps me deal with that sort of thing.To try and get a positive out of this... I wholeheartedly recommend to everyone on the Forum... if you ever see a grade crossing signal malfunctioning in any way, contact the railroad to inform them of the problem *immediately*. Obviously, if a signal fails to operate when a train passes, it's dangerous... but there's a hidden danger in signals that are in fail-safe mode, as many motorists simply ignore them. If you call the railroad and let them know, they can get a maintainer out to inspect and fix the signal... and, more importantly, they can put out a slow order for that crossing, so that trains won't be coming through it at track speed.The number shouldn't be hard to find. Class 1 railroads are required to have an emergency contact number on every grade crossing signal; even shortlines tend to have some form of identification on them, and their phone numbers can easily be found online.RDF

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Here's a picture from my own photo archives, of the emergency contact information on a grade crossing signal in Hummelstown, PA. This is along the Norfolk Southern Harrisburg Line. I wanted to post it to give anyone who hasn't seen one a chance to know what RDF is talking about.

Tim Herman (parailfan312)
MP 98 - Norfolk Southern Harrisburg Line
Hershey, PA USA

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3fd79313050e3a40.jpg

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Precision,I'm sorry for what you have to got through.Thankfully,during the 3 yrs I worked for the NYSW as a signalman,I can remember only a handfull of fatal incidents involving the railroad.But there were a lot of minor crashes,especially east of Butler,NJ and in Paterson.Our crew was only 4 guys for the whole southern division,so we all got to investigate grade crossing accidents.It was always the vehicles fault,and the railroad always settles anyway.It sounds like this was an unprotected crossing.Maybe that needs to change.But,unless a crossing is marked "exempt",it legally is considered a stop sign.I've got a ton of great memories from working on that RR,but a few sh***y ones too.

"Hold tight,feel the drivers bite,hear the whistle moan.Engine rockin' to the left and right,vibratin' in my bones.Once the locomotive steals your soul,you got a Casey Jones!"---Ian"Lemmy"Kilmister

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Sorry to hear about the incident Precision. I know its not much comfort but I believe that you did all you could that day, and if you pray to Jesus about it, I'm sure he'll give you a shoulder to cry on. Its tragic when people think they can beat a train that is hauling tons of cargo. I hope you will seek theraphy and let your family and friends help you through this. You will be in my prayers.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
"The voices, the voices, I hear them, they're with me, so I follow I follow..." ~Eminem's "Guilty Conscious"

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I'm so sorry, Pete. I'm glad to hear you're feeling at least a little better than when you originally posted this news. I hope as time goes on, you'll become even more satisfied that you were doing "all the right things," and that nothing you could have done would have changed the outcome. I know you'll always feel sad for the family involved, but don't let guilt accompany your sadness. Feeling sad is natural and appropriate. Feeling responsible for the accident is a burden that is not yours to bear.\Also, if you or ssw don't mind, what was the TV station that ran the story he saw? I'd like to read the text of their story, and possibly send them a comment or two about trains "running too fast."Take care, and God bless,
Bret

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 09:33 PM (EST)

Wow I am very very sorry to hear about the accident i know it is a soft topic I hope i never have an accident like that. But on the bright side you did all you could and that was to sound the horn and apply the brakes there was nothing else you could do when your driving a train. People need to noticed the difference from trains and cars, trains take some time to stop and people should lean by now stay off the tracks. God Bless your heart!

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I'm always sorry when I hear about stuff like this. A lot of people don't realize that a train cannot stop quickly, and there are those that have a death wish. A few months ago i was driving with my wife and kids and our neighbor an her daughter and we came up to thios crossing, the gates were down this idiot kid on foot about 15-16 years of age ran across the tracks right in front of a train doing about 45 mph he barely made it after the train past we saw him on the other side of the tracks laughing about it. I couldn't believe it that someone would be that stupid, unfortunatly it happens everyday. My heart goes out to you and the engineer. You didn't do anything wrong my friend sounds to me like you did all you and the engineer could.Joel

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Thats why there should be gates at all railroad crossings to make sure people stop, there trying to make it law here in Michigan that all grade crossings have gates and they have been replaceing alot on the Mount Clemens Subdivision of the Canadian National.

Benjamin E. Matchett
Canadian National
MP 22.0
Mount Clemens Subdivision
Mount Clemens, Michigan 48043
matchett1701@hotmail.com

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Its not just a Rail thing. I drive Truck and from my cab I see alot of people doing really stupid things. A truck like a train dosnt stop on a dime. I run Grain and am often overloaded by a few thousand pounds as weighting at the limit just dosnt pay well eunf to run. Brakes are not as good sometimes and when there cold they are less effective. People will stop in the middle of the highway right in front of me and there was a few times I had to almost take the ditch to miss them. It happins more often then you think and I keep saying that they should require people to drive a Truck Atleast one week in there life to know what they can and cant do. In my mind I know that if it happins to me that someone does something realy stupid infont of me that there isnt much I can do to stop it short of wreaking the truck. At least I have that option you guys on the other hand are stuck on one path and cant change that. I keep in mind at all crossings to not only wait on a train that is not even there yet but to stay back about 50 feet incase of a Derailment, Cause when a train leaves the track there is no saying what it will do. I go over a Crossing everyday and I keep in mind that it is a high Crossing with drop offs on each side, Grain Hoppers dont have much clearance and can high center realy easy causing a Truck to become stuck on the track. Union Pacific and I have noticed this at that crossing has a Phone Number and Crossing number on a sign to call incase someone is stuck. I would not hesitate incase someone gets stuck on this crossing to call that number and warn them of it before it happins.
there are a group of trees there that make it hard for a train to see the crossing till there right on top of it as well and I understand it.
Best Reguards to you and that Engineer and sorry it happined to you. Eduation about Trains and Trucks should be a mandatory thing, but when People get in cars there concept of Fatatility changes and they seem to forget just how Fragile life really is.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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I say that being on the Reciving end of A Grade Crossing Accedent. My Fathers Cousin Was Returining home after A party. They were drunk and it was Foggy out that night. Mike Mclean was his name and when they came into town here a Grain train was going thru town. They didnt know the train was there and seemd to not know they were that close to town. They were going so fast that they nearly made it thru to the other side of the track under a Hopper Car. They were killed instantly and without warning. So it is a lesson to be aware of that one must be extreamly Carefull at a Grade Crossing and never drive drunk at that eather.
Besides I would rather wait at a Grade crossing and get a few pictures of the train instead of try to beat it across.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-03 AT 08:16 PM (EST)

I'd just like to offer my prayers to you and you're friend. I can try to imagine the pain you must be in, but I'd never fully grasp the whole truth and the whole pain. I just hope you understand that it wasn't you're fault and there was nothing you could of done. It would of happened to any of us here on the fourm, Brian, me, Nels, Snipper, Kevin, anyone. I just hope you receive the prayers my family and I are sending for you and you're friend.EDIT:
This may seem stupid, but I keep both NS and CSX's emergency numbers in my phone, just in case.
Greg
HighV0lt6ge - AIM/AOL
gregoryis411@hotmail.com

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Yeah I hold a CDL with a School Bus and a Passenger endorsement and let me tell you I excercise extreme caution at railroad crossings. I make the kids 10 minutes late for school once, because I stopped at a crossing and waited. On one of them, a house blocks the view of the first and second tracks. I could hear the train but could not see it. I decided to put the parking brake on and wait. Sure enough the train comes through. Get a call from the school saying I'm late and I said I'm sitting here waiting for a long freight train to finish crossing.
the lights and bell aren't even on and I will sit there until I get a signal to go or otherwiseDr. SatanI'm otherwise known as the SatanTrain

High on the booze
fade to blue
nine inch howl brave tonight
chopper coming in you hope
Orange Crush: R.E.M.

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