DCForum Discussion Forum - MTS will not run in XP

Has any one else had this trouble. I am running Windows XP pro with the following setup, under Win 98 2nd edition every thing was fine, never had a problem. Now all i get is lock ups, I can get as far as a cab view, then thats it. Complete system lock up.I am running a: PIII 1000, with 252 meg ram. Nvida GeForce 2mx x 32meg card I have all the latest drivers. There are no conflicts that i can see on the system. When I try to run it I generaly have around 60% 70% of system resources free. Virtual mem. is set to Auto. I was advised to try disableing open GL, tried that, no good, just get a few mins longer before I lock up. Tested Direct Draw in Direct x Diagnostics all ok, as is Direct 3d.I am fresh out of ideas now, as are my mates. can any one help out a very frustrated Aussi.Cheers

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RE: MTS will not run in XP, Hack, Jun-03-02, 08:03 AM, (1) RE: MTS will not run in XP, Stumbl, Jun-03-02, 06:03 PM, (2) RE: MTS will not run in XP, SharkNose, Jun-03-02, 06:29 PM, (3) RE: MTS will not run in XP, jm1941, Jun-03-02, 08:35 PM, (4) RE: MTS will not run in XP, FeatherRiver, Jun-04-02, 06:35 PM, (5) RE: MTS will not run in XP, Transcon, Jun-04-02, 08:47 PM, (6) RE: MTS will not run in XP, dgauci, Jun-06-02, 01:57 AM, (7) RE: MTS will not run in XP, derekmorton, Jun-06-02, 04:07 AM, (8) RE: MTS will not run in XP, CyberSky, Jun-06-02, 04:18 AM, (9) RE: MTS will not run in XP, kevarc, Jun-06-02, 12:17 PM, (11) RE: MTS will not run in XP, carlylet, Jun-06-02, 12:06 PM, (10) RE: MTS will not run in XP, jm1941, Jun-06-02, 08:46 PM, (12) RE: MTS will not run in XP, dgauci, Jun-07-02, 01:13 AM, (13) RE: MTS will not run in XP, jm1941, Jun-07-02, 07:47 PM, (14) RE: MTS will not run in XP, dgauci, Jun-07-02, 08:23 PM, (15) RE: MTS will not run in XP, jm1941, Jun-08-02, 03:25 AM, (17) RE: MTS will not run in XP, whleighton, Jun-08-02, 01:03 AM, (16) RE: MTS will not run in XP, pstraten, Jun-08-02, 11:22 AM, (18)

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Silly question - do you have all the current XP critical updates?Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

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also....need more hardware specs...type of motherboard and sound card? etc etcMake a Mess!!
I am

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-03-02 AT 06:29 PM (EDT)Also, did you upgrade your Win 98 to Win XP? MSTS seems to like only clean installs of Win XP. Or uninstall MSTS and re-install under XP.- Andrew PATCO Hi-Speed Line

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G'day Norm,As one Aussie to another, WHY upgrade to Windows XP when your good old Win 98SE workhorse ran MSTS like a breeze. Personally (please no flaming) I would not touch XP, till say if MSTS version 2.0 NEEDS WinXP to run properly. That's a long way away yet in computer terms. (Maybe a year)
XP Pro on your present system will achieve little in MSTS, if anything at all, except just the having, or keeping up with the latest Windows OS. In that case there will be some headaches to get through and from what my cobbers say and what I view here in posts on the TS forum. Maybe different story altogether if you had the latest "super you beaut" PC system.I know this does not help you to your frustrated question, but my motto is, if it ain't broke, why fix it. I like to sleep soundly and keep what hair I have left on with my faithful, yes old Windows 98. Had 98 on since 98 first hit the shelves and is still running nicely and is still using the first original installion, same goes for my MSTS. My system is nearly similar to yours a PIII-850 with Geforce2 GTS card and my MSTS goes very nicely with most everything full on with okay frame rates. Enough said.Norm of course, IF you NEEDED XP to run something else, then please forget the above, my apologies.
Was just sort of saying here to you, maybe is better and with less heartaches, to go back to your old Win 98SE that is tried and proven. Please this is not a dig in any way, just some sincere food for thought. Hope you can get it sorted.

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I'm running XP Home on a clean install on a new machine (P4-1.8GHz/512MB DDRAM/Geforce2-64MB) and have no troubles. I'm didn't build the system for MSTS, in fact its primary role is direct to disc recording (music) so it's even got some other special hardware and a small dongle train protruding from its rear and the only reason I'm running XP is that "supposedly" some of my music software has exceptional performance in XP vs. 2K and definitely 98SE. I would say though people who have upgraded to XP and not done a completely new install have consistently reported grief with XP exponetially greater than what I experienced. Also the first time I built my own PC. I was kinda impressed that instead of smoke and an electrical fire I got "Looks like you've installed a new processor, would you like to overclock it?" instead - guess I'm not a total screw-up

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-02 AT 08:48 PM (EDT)Ahhh another reason NOT to buy Windows XP!!!My friends across the street bought Age of Empires 2 (Great Game!), but their brand-new AMD Athlon 950 mhz with Windows XP didn't want to install it!Plus third-party programs that certainly enhance Combat Flight Simulator don't work with Windows XP.Face it!!! Windows XP is just NOT worth it!Windows 98 SE is just fine with me! I'd rather put up with 5 freeze ups a month with Windows 98 than no Train Simulator with Windows XP!

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>Windows 98 SE is just fine
>with me! I'd rather put
>up with 5 freeze ups
>a month with Windows 98
>than no Train Simulator with
>Windows XP! That's your opinion and your entitled to it. For me I've been running MSTS with Windows XP Pro since October with the best performance I've ever had. It's been my observation in these forums that everytime someone posts problems running MSTS with XP it's the user, not the OS at fault.If Windows 98SE aint broke why fix it? Thats simple, because Windows 98 is broke. Windows XP is the cure for proper memory management, true multi-tasking and most importantly rock solid stability and incredible performance. All attributes that Windows 98SE, good as it used to be, doesn't have.I like Microsoft Windows, Win XP is the best version hands down.

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Dennis,WinXP won't run on my MSTS box for more that about 1/2 hour without crashing.
It ran 98 fine for 6 months (within the limits of 98 that is).It is now running Win2000 SP2 without any problems, the longest I have had the sim running in the 1 activity is 14 days.Microsoft were very interested in my crashes and requested the full memory dumps. I have yet to hear back from them.Derek

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>> If Windows 98SE aint broke why fix it? Thats simple, because Windows 98 is broke. <<Exactly what I was thinking!

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I have XP Home and love it. No blue screen of death. For programs that do not run under XP, you can set it up to run as if it is win98 on the system. Put the cd in and do not let autoinstall run. Open explorer and highlight the exe file and look at the properties and click with one it prefers. Double check to make sure I have the right procedure to to this. I am not at my XP machine.Kevin Arceneaux

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I have a similar video card (and Win 98 SE) that I bought just to run TS on my old system. My ATI rage pro 8 meg card crashed immediately upon starting TS.I built a new system and the Nvidia drivers did not work. I went to Nvidia and got the latest drivers. Still no go. Fozzy the Bear put me on to 3dguru.com. This site has a library of drivers for nvidia cards. I am using one about three versions back from the latest(27.41 I believe). It certainly helped me.
I will stay with 98 SE until forced to go to XPAMD 1.4 gig
MSI K7t 266 pro 2
512 ddr
Maxtor 15 gig 7200 rpm HD
Nividia Gforce 2 mx 400 64 meg card.Carlyle Thompson
Chesapeake, Va.

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G'day Folks,

>> Windows 98SE aint broke why fix it? Thats simple, because Windows 98 is broke.Sorry, Win98 is NOT broke, it is ONLY broke to those who NEEDED to upgrade their Win98 to the latest.
A lot of us still use Win98 and Win98 still works fine for what we want it to do. I personally find Win98 is an old workhorse that runs all my applications very well on my PC, including MSTS and FlightSims. Of course I do not play other games, that maybe different story.
Win98 will do me for a long time to come yet. Well, till MSTS 2.0 comes along, and if MSTS needs XP to run it, which I rather doubt.
Right now the cost of the upgrade to XP for the MSTS fans would be far, far better spent towards a better CPU and / or Video card to get far greater frame rate results. Unless one has buckets of cash to spare.No Windows version is broke, till that individual who uses it, ceases to use it, here speaking from a normal user's point of view. Of course in the IT corporate world Win98 is and was broke ages ago. But most of us are NOT in the corporate world, just ordinary fellows who are train simmers.

>>I like Microsoft Windows, Win XP is the best version hands down.That’s probably very true, for those who NEED XP. A lot out here at present do not. Anyway a lot of us are not Computer gurus and to upgrade can and does has it moments to the un-initiated till we get the new XP settled in, especially if like a lot of us we still have older programs (strapped for cash) to run that are still excellent on Win98. This TS forum alone bear witnesses to upgrading to XP, even if not XP's fault. I myself have no good valid reason to blow big bucks to keep up with the latest Windows, (hey please not knocking XP either) especially when Win98 does the job just fine with what I already got, just for a couple of frames in my MSTS sim. Not best bang for your bucks.
To me IF the NEED arises that MSTS needs XP to run, then fine, I like others will have to bite the bullet and go with the flow. As I said above for Train Simmers the cost of an upgrade to XP from Win98 or SE in my book would be far better spent on a upgraded CPU and / or Video card. MSTS does not need XP to run well. Just see my previous MSTS benchmark Frame Rate posts. I agree with those who run XP, that it is probably the best version of Windows hands down since Windows got started. But Win 98 “ain’t broke yet”, and is far from dead for us others who still use it. Of course Win98 will slowly disappear with time like all things do. BUT just NOT quite yet.Here good question.
If XP is easy to use, why then has not someone with XP installed posted a cure, or an answer for mynamesnorm, the chap who started this thread. He must still be very frustrated, or taken the hint and maybe put Win 98SE back on. All I’m saying is, IF Win98 does exactly what you want it to do, WHY try to fix it further by upgrading it unnecessarily, that will come soon enough. Wait till you HAVE to. Just enjoy your MSTS, even if on the now older Win98 or SE.

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>>> Windows 98SE aint broke why fix it? Thats simple, because Windows 98 is broke.
>
>Sorry, Win98 is NOT broke, it
>is ONLY broke to those
>who NEEDED to upgrade their
>Win98 to the latest. Again this is my informed opinion, not a flame, and your entitled to your own opinion. But Win98 IS broke if you want a true multi-tasking system, that correctly handles memory, resources, a real 32bit file system and last but not least a bullet proof stable system. I like Windows and I used Windows 98se right up to last October, until XP released. I'm also under no illusions to Windows limitations and weaknesses. Everyone who has a system manufactured in the last 3 years needs Windows XP, whether they know it or not. I'm sure there are people who still insist on using DOS only, and hate Windows altogether. This doesn't mean their wrong in liking DOS, but it also doesn't mean that DOS is not an outdated and archaic operating system that is quite obsolete. An American Indian saying I heard recently states, "that when you find your riding a dead horse, it's probably best to dismount.">No Windows version is broke, till
>that individual who uses it,
>ceases to use it, here
>speaking from a normal user's
>point of view.It all depends on your tolerance level for frustration, low performance and setbacks. Personally I try to use what works best, performing CPR on dead horses is not my desire in life.>That’s probably very true, for those
>who NEED XP. Everyone NEEDS XP, whether they know it or not, especially non computer gurus who need a more stable and reliable computer experience. Computer gurus are the ones that keep patching older versions of Windows together with various workarounds and utilities to keep their outdated OS's running. How many times have people in this forum recommended hacks like Cacheman to try to keep Windows 9x systems running with sims.>To me IF the NEED arises
>that MSTS needs XP to
>run, then fine, I like
>others will have to bite
>the bullet and go with
>the flow.People said the same thing when cars replaced horse and buggies, commercial jets replaced prop passenger planes -- old and tried is not necessarily better or more efficient.>MSTS does not need XP to run well. But it does run much better on XP with the exact same hardware.
>Here good question.
>If XP is easy to use,
>why then has not someone
>with XP installed posted a
>cure, or an answer for
>mynamesnorm, the chap who started
>this thread.The problem is most likely with the way he installed XP. The bottom line is back up all of his data, re-format the drive using the Windows XP CD as a NTFS system, and then install Windows XP onto the clean disk. He will have to re-install everything, but this is always the best way to install a new operating system.My system specs aren't that different than his and both my MSTS and Windows XP Pro run great.Dell Dimension XPS-T600 / PIII 1ghz SECCII Slot 1
Dell P990 19" Triniton monitor
Windows XP Professional
768mb ECC Ram
GeForce3 TI200 64mb DDR / Nvidia Detonator 29.40
130gb 7200 rpm ATA/100 HD
Promise ATA/100 Card
Hitachi GD-5000 8x DVD
Yamaha CD-RW CRW3200EZ
Zip 250 ATAPI
SoundBlaster Audigy MP3+
Altec Lansing ADA880 speakers
3Com 56K hardware modem
LinkSys 10/100 Ethernet card
LinkSys Cable/DSL Router
Hauppauge WinTV USB
(2) Belkin 4 port USB hubs
Logitech Mouseman Wheel
HP 6350C USB scanner
APC Back-UPS 500

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G'day Dgauci and other folks, better make yourselves a coffee first.WOW.. you have a very good computer system.I would not take your post as a flame anyway. On the contrary, I really do appreciate and respect your opinion and in no way am I saying your wrong whatsoever. In fact, your quite correct about XP. 10/10. I do not question that, and we are BOTH entitled to our points of view. I do thank you for your informed XP post, as I do see your valid point, just hope you can see mine, at least a little bit.All my point am trying to make was if your older Win98 works fine for you and your happy with it for what you DO with it, stay with it.

> I'm sure there are people who still insist on using DOS only, and hate Windows altogether. This doesn't mean their wrong in liking DOS, but it also doesn't mean that DOS is not an outdated and archaic operating system that is quite obsolete. Correct…. Win98 is obsolete in comparison to XP, I have not denied this. IF a person finds DOS does what they need it to do, then why waste their hard earnt cash upgrading to XP to do same thing. Same goes for Windows For Work Groups 3.11. IF a person finds it still does what they need it to do, same applies, and so on. Please I don’t dislike XP, I just find at present Win98 does what I need it to do, and does it fine. I do not need to upgrade to XP just YET, and same for others would be in same boat as myself. Win98 is not dead and still has some life in it for a little while to come, though obsolete in latest computer terms.

> An American Indian saying I heard recently states, "that when you find your riding a dead horse, it's probably best to dismount." Interesting saying, Does not quite fit the scenario though, (not being clever here either) as I’m still riding nicely on my old workhorse I call Win98 and getting to where I want to go. When my old horse does finally die (need to upgrade) then I’ll dismount like the wise Indian did, and purchase the better horse (XP) to go on my way till XP runs out of puff for WHAT I want XP to do.Had to smile at your:- > People said the same thing when cars replaced horse and buggies, commercial jets replaced prop passenger planes -- old and tried is not necessarily better or more efficient. Interesting analogy the first part.
Okay for those who can AFFORD the upgrades versions to their program applications as they come out to keep up with the flow. Some people just buy every new model car each year to keep up with the latest for whatever reason. Fine, no problem with that. There are some of us who have to keep there cars 10 years or more. (there is the well off and the no so well off) Both the old and new cars will get to their destination at same time and just as easy, only perhaps new car is a bit more efficient in doing it, but the older model is just as good for what you use it for, so why trade it in, till you really NEED a the newer one. Interesting analogy the second part.
I am NOT saying old Win98 is better or more efficient, no way.
I repeat, Win98 just does what I NEED it to do and does it well with what I use it for. All my applications beside MSTS and FltSim(s) are nearly as old as Win 98, a couple are even older and I’d be very surprised if XP liked them all without also having to upgrade some of the Applications programs as well. More darn expense that one like us beggars cannot afford as well. My apps work perfectly, in fact I only NEED a high end PC for MSTS and FltSim. The apps I use go like lightning on the PIII-850 now.From what I’ve read in PC magazines XP is not very backward compatible, maybe wrong here, I’m not a guru, meaning not an computer expert like yourself, computers were and are not my bread and butter. I just want to sit at my PC, press the on button, start-up whatever I want to use or do and the computer through Win98 in all fairness does to this just fine. When Win98 fails to do this, then out with the Format and it's upgrade time.I always read your posts with much interest whenever I run across them and I can see your really into computers and I do much value and respect your points you make. Odd times I may disagree a little, but I DO usually try to see your point of view. I’m not anti XP, just a 61 year old retired railwayman who has learnt to fiddle with computers for last 10 years, built my own system which is very stable and runs happy, still using an old AT-Baby box and Win98, all goes great. I use no memory managers, nor patches (except MS’s) nor various workarounds or utilities to keep this outdated (yes) OS running. My Win98 is just plain old vanilla Win98, and my MSTS goes fine with my PIII-850 and 64meg GeForce2 GTS card with 256 megs RAM as you would have seen by my MSTS Benchmark basic frame rates. That’s all I ask of it. Okay granted I’ve had an odd blue screen which everytime was my own stupid fault, but a reboot and all is well every time. Actually cannot remember when I had my last blue screen it’s that long ago.Here is a little comparison of your and my MSTS frames from the past using XP and Win98.
Of course under the skin XP is running better, but at the monitor screen where the action is Win98 was doing just as well. I will certainly not argue on a couple of frames, that is bugger all.

dgauci PIII - 1gig Geforce2 MX400 64, Frames, 24, 21, 19, 18, 41, 25, Win XP
jm1941 PIII - 850 GeForce2 GTS, 64, Frames, 25, 24, 20, 18, 60, 27, Win 98Okay these are only a basic benchmark and not hard and fast to write home about, but for me Win98 with MSTS goes fine in comparison to XP, at present so I need no upgrade, as the gain is so marginal.My point all along for those on budgets and if your Win98 goes fine and does what you want it to do, and if your frames are the problem in MSTS, put the hard earnt cash into upgrading the CPU and Video card. You can buy and put XP on anytime later on. (XP might even be cheaper then. (Joking)) For with my old Win98 that run my Applications and MSTS okay I will stay with at present. Actually I will keep this Win98 system and not upgrade it. Later on when MSTS 2.0 comes out I will get or make a new ATX box which will probably only have yes XP installed with MSTS 2.0 on it. Nothing else, easy fixed. For time being I sit back, play with MSTS with Win98 and save my cash with the interest as well. Hopefully when MSTS 2.0 is ready, a P4 - 3 gig plus will be around.dgauci I do appreciate your post and your answer as I think others will as well, yes very informative. Lets both appreciate each others views and reasons and leave it at that. Neither of us are wrong given the wider picture, is more a question of one's circumstances.I word of thanks here for showing mynamesnorm how to install his XP, will be interesting to see how he goes. Norm if you get to read this, please let us know how you got on just out of curiosity sake. You did not start a war with this thread, just a very interesting conversation.Now this old horse needs a drink after all that.

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>dgauci PIII - 1gig Geforce2 MX400 64, Frames, 24, 21, 19, 18, 41, 25, Win XP
>jm1941 PIII - 850 GeForce2 GTS, 64, Frames, 25, 24, 20, 18, 60, 27, Win 98One thing to point out about those benchmarks, the motherboard in my system is 3 years old, an old Intel 440BX chipset, so the AGP supported for my card is only 1x. If I was using a current 4x AGP capable motherboard the results would be much higher. You may or may not be in the same boat. >Okay these are only a basic
>benchmark and not hard and
>fast to write home about,
>but for me Win98 with
>MSTS goes fine in comparison
>to XP, at present so
>I need no upgrade, as
>the gain is so marginal. Don't fall in to the trap of thinking FPS is the end all. I get fairly consistent frame rates, plus rock solid stability. I used Windows 98se and recommended it to everyone for years over the other Win9x versions, so I'm not dumping on Win98se (The Second Edition update to Windows 98 is a definite improvement over original Windows 98).Windows XP, since it released is just much better. I incrementelly upgrade all of the components on my base system all of the time. Since the time I posted that video benchmark, I've already upgraded my sound card and video card as reflected in the system specs I just posted.>You did not start a war with this thread, just a very interesting conversation. This is a friendly conversation, the way it should be.

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G'day dgauci,I did not fully realise till just now that you and I had very much same system, balancing the CPU & Vid card & m/board probably why at the time of those benchmarks we were basically the same and our frames were pretty good considering our systems. As I said I have no plans upgrading this system anymore for I feel it's as good as it is going to get and for time being am quite satified with it, till I put together the next system when MSTS 2.0 comes out.I wonder if you could do me a favour and do another basic MSTS test and put it into this post:-
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID1/687.html as in this later thread "More BASIC FRAME RATES" is pretty empty. This thread was started by mistake by someone else, but would serve the purpose.If you haven't got original basic set-up, here is address to that earlier post:-
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID1/686.html
This one getting a bit bigI enjoyed our conversation.
Catch ya later.

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Norm,I have virtually the same system as you (except maybe for an Asus mobo) and I haven't found a program that won't run on XP. I do enjoy the absense of "the blue screen of death"

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Hassle, hassle, hassle. My rule of thumb for the last 20 years (which unfortunately I've broken a couple of times since DOS 2.1) has been never to upgrade an OS. Wait until you are ready for a new computer and buy it with the OS already installed--preferably a second edition. Why beta test for Microsoft (or anybody else) more than you have to?PaulS

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