MSTS The final solution!

LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-05 AT 01:48 AM (EST)

EDIT: one more pic.
It's over!! I have finally had enough of this defective, bug ridden, unsupported hunk of garbage called Microsoft Train Simulator. After another re install, The act editor would give me SdS every other time I made a new service or consist. This along with all it's other bugs which were never addressed by the manufacturer has completely ruined my interest in this stupid prog.TRS2004 on order!! and awaiting TMTS!!! Good riddance MSTS

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RE: MSTS The final solution!, John_Reagon, Feb-20-05, 01:35 AM, (1) RE: MSTS The final solution!, NW 1218, Feb-20-05, 01:37 AM, (2) RE: MSTS The final solution!, CR SD60I, Feb-21-05, 02:05 AM, (3) RE: MSTS The final solution!, ns_sd70m, Feb-21-05, 03:04 AM, (4) RE: MSTS The final solution!, landnrailroader, Mar-10-05, 03:35 PM, (19) RE: MSTS The final solution!, KeltikSylk, Feb-21-05, 09:38 AM, (5) RE: MSTS The final solution!, rabid_david, Feb-24-05, 10:50 AM, (6) RE: MSTS The final solution!, Phil C, Feb-25-05, 00:55 AM, (7) RE: MSTS The final solution!, philskene, Feb-25-05, 06:10 PM, (8) RE: MSTS The final solution!, Phil C, Feb-25-05, 07:35 PM, (9) RE: MSTS The final solution!, Stetrain12, Feb-25-05, 11:22 PM, (10) RE: MSTS The final solution!, Phil C, Feb-25-05, 11:34 PM, (11) RE: MSTS The final solution!, rabid_david, Feb-28-05, 04:08 AM, (12) RE: MSTS The final solution!, Vern, Feb-28-05, 01:58 PM, (13) RE: MSTS The final solution!, rabid_david, Mar-01-05, 05:05 AM, (15) RE: MSTS The final solution!, Stetrain12, Mar-11-05, 10:58 PM, (26) RE: MSTS The final solution!, mitgarand, Feb-28-05, 10:43 PM, (14) RE: MSTS The final solution!, NW 1218, Mar-03-05, 07:33 AM, (16) RE: MSTS The final solution!, philskene, Mar-10-05, 07:46 PM, (22) RE: MSTS The final solution!, BNSF4723, Mar-11-05, 02:35 PM, (23) RE: MSTS The final solution!, AlphaMaster, Mar-11-05, 04:43 PM, (25)

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-05 AT 01:45 AM (EST)

You Little Creep,I hope that your TRS 2004 gives you Hell....

Full Supporter of the SSW 819 "Lets get rollin' again."

Checkout my Websites:
http://www.freewebs.com/adn-trainsim/

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Whatever dude...............................

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.meanslocoworks.com
www.blueridgerails.com
Illinois Railway Musuem Diesel Shop Volunteer, current project: CB&Q SD24 504

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Talk about a way to throw your money away...-Jeff

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Maybe you should have smashed up your computer instead!

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I gotta hope TRS doesn't do anything for him either. I have both, and TRS-2004 is so yucky that I gave up on it, shoved it back in the stack of useless things which my wife says I keep because I am packrat.J. H. Sullivan

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I guess I'm a little too late to ask you to send it to my nephew Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-05 AT 10:53 AM (EST)

Oops. I think you should have waited for TRS to arrive before destroying MSTS! It may be flawed, buggy etc., but it's one hell of a better driving sim than TRS (which is fun to play for a while but the physics, track sounds, and lack of a useable activity editor have consigned my copy to a dusty shelf).

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NO kidding, if i wanted to play with model trains id go to my layout, TRAINZ is fun and all but for about 1/2 an hr.MSTS is much more realistic, and so what its buggy, name one PERFECT piece of software out there...

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Hi Phi C --I use and enjoy both simulations, so I usually try not to get involved in these sorts of discussions.But "MSTS is much more realistic". Mmmm - a front coupler on locomotives that does not couple, couplings between rolling stock that sometimes behave like elastic bands, wheels on cars that rotate backwards and bogeys that rotate anti-directional when the direction of haulage is reversed, turntables that don't turn, switches that don't switch, steam locomotives that either run out of puff completely or run away at impossibly high speed, a two dimensional cab, ... . If this is a definition of "realistic" - well!Not to mention, of course, a Route Editor that produces fatal errors and an extremely hostile Activity Editor.The problem is, of course and as you say, the alternative actually is "fun", though as a user and a route builder I'd dispute your "1/2 hr" assertion.Cheers,
Phil

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Thrilling but still you miss the point..compared to trainz, msts is more real world.
so what it has problems, the only ones I have ever run across in my dealings with it are some missing cab files, but at least we get different cabs, sounds, and some of the BEST routes and the BEST looking equipment etc. The cabs in TRAINZ are more 2d than the ones in MSTS, and they get better every new developmentthere is a reason TRAINZ isnt nearly as popular.
The route editors in both programs blow, one is too complicated, the other is just moronic and limited.
I have both, i spend the majority of my time with MSTS, simply because theres more available for my interests, and (like the majority of people) like MSTS better than TRAINZ.

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Not getting into the MSTS/Trainz debate, but I was wondering exactly where you get your numbers? Last time I looked there are 1/2/3 posts a day in the Loco design section of this forum. On the trainz forum, thjey actually had to split the two forums into two sections( development and annoucements) to keep posts from being sent to page 2 within a day. Also, at the time of this post, there are 132,162 registered Trainz members. Just hang out at the Auran forums for a couple hours, watch how there is actually more than 1 post per half hour

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! post per half hour>if you subscribe to the threads you post in maybe you will see how wrong you are..i get 10 to 15 emails an hour on posts in threads on this board, in route design, screenshots, logo design and the general MSTS board..i get my numbers from what I see, and what i have SEEN.Trainz has bored me, yes i said before i have it but i dont see a need to play with toy trains on my computer, when i have a fairly large HO layout, and i can actually get my hands on it.i have sever all on routes to trainz and they all suck (except the canadian one that has a ton of animation)... but even still it just bores me..yeah everyone has their own thing, but dont think that TRAINZ is a superior product.

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Trainz would definitely be installed again if like MSTS there were packs available with a professionally built route, the appropriate rolling stock and most importantly stuff to do - ACTIVITIES! Personally I don't have the time to build routes (although I've tried), I just want a convincing driving experience. Two things have always bugged me though and that's the track sounds which need to become customisable in a future service pack, and the sound origin of locomotives could do with moving away from the front - most disconcerting when driving diesels and electrics when the noise should come from behind. Another big no-no is the "intelligent" AI system which would be better replaced with a path-based solution à la MSTS, as it has never performed correctly and requires zillions of scriplets to tame. I real life trains are pathed by the operating dept/signal towers, drivers do not decide for themselves which is the best way to go. Kinda gives the whole thing a gamey feel rather than a simulation. Sorry but that's how it is!

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As stated above, MSTS/Trainz is a hotbed of discussion that usually requires significant dousing. As someone who has built the odd mile or two of route in MSTS and indeed Trainz I have to say Surveyor particularly with the expanded track textures and custom objects in the latest TRS has some very powerful features.Unfortunately it's all very fraught for people like myself who want to create at least a passing likeness of a prototype route.No way of extracting all your tiles/baseboards at once and the insistence on using 720 x 720m sections rather than logical 1000m x 1000m sections. This means for a long route every baseboard has to be individually added. Only HOG available to import approximated DEM data via greyscale image and then with variable results (and then only on a square or rectangular baseboard formation).No interface with TS Tools or a similar utility to accept terrain data via contour tracing or to add markers to accurately lay out the permanent way and other features such as roads or rivers. Oh, unable to slope water.Very difficult to get curves looking correct, no way to specify an exact radius throughout resulting in icky looking doglegs. To be fair, splines are more useful than dynamic track for joining odd ends and the few times I've dabbled with Surveyor it has always seemed quite stable.However what clinches it, is if you labour away at your route for 2 or 3 months when you present your 75 mile masterpiece to the world unless you can deal with the scripting, you're back to what we had in Trainz 1.0 - a very nice train/tourist ride through the route but no proper activities or structured timetable operation.

Chief Track Welder

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>However what clinches it, is if you labour away at your
>route for 2 or 3 months when you present your 75 mile
>masterpiece to the world unless you can deal with the
>scripting, you're back to what we had in Trainz 1.0 - a very
>nice train/tourist ride through the route but no proper
>activities or structured timetable operation. I don't think that these "foibles" will likely be corrected in the near future as it would probably require a rewrite from the ground up. What's interesting is that the pro outfits like 3DTrains, 3DTS, MLT etc. to name but a few, don't appear to want to touch it with a barge pole. A shame but understandable as there is always the danger that by creating something for TRS2004 SP4, it may not work with the next version iteration! The only thing I've seen approaching anything reasonably organised is the Razorback Railway which is a good effort but is still a little like a giant Australian model railway than a representation of a particular era or place.

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>I don't think that these "foibles" will likely be corrected
>in the near future as it would probably require a rewrite
>from the ground up. What's interesting is that the pro
>outfits like 3DTrains, 3DTS, MLT etc. to name but a few,
>don't appear to want to touch it with a barge pole. A shame
>but understandable as there is always the danger that by
>creating something for TRS2004 SP4, it may not work with the
>next version iteration! The only thing I've seen approaching
>anything reasonably organised is the Razorback Railway which
>is a good effort but is still a little like a giant
>Australian model railway than a representation of a
>particular era or place. As far as activities, there are utilities released from a group called TPR which allow you to create scenerios without the need to be a scripting guru (or know scripting at all). As far as compatibility, it has been outlined by Auran that they will work to keep all products until RS(H/P) backwards compatible for most major assets (such as routes etc). Some scripting changes have been made with servicepacks, but mostly those require a change on the part of the scripters. RS(H/P) will be a complete rewrite, which will allow them to fix the many flaws of Trainz that have been unable to be removed since they have been piggybacking each new version off the next. RS(H/P) will be a fresh start, and hopefully be a much better finished product.

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I guess it's too late to mention that you could have auctioned it on eBay?

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Now I know I have said what I think before, but appearently, I will have too say it again. To me, MSTS is more of a realistic simulator. I know how to play with it and things like that. TRS2004, on the other hand, is like a model railroad. I am unable to find the pure realism in it. A few other reasons I stick with MSTS is, because when wanting to just simply run a train in TRS2004, you have to go into the route editor, place all necissary locomotives and cars all over where ever you want them. I do not want to have to labor over trying to set up a consist when for MSTS, I open Conbuilder, make the consist, load the sim, and go. Another thing would be that I have been unable to find/access the original sound files that came with the game, i.e. prime mover sounds, horns, bells. MSTS, thats easy. Just go into the engines sound folder and there they are.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.meanslocoworks.com
www.blueridgerails.com
Illinois Railway Musuem Diesel Shop Volunteer, current project: CB&Q SD24 504

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Guys –Just chill!!I know that some of the views expressed are provocative, but remember that unsupported assertions do not equal facts and personal preferences do not equal universal truths. This applies to both camps.Phil

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Well, that was pretty stupid/dramatic. I don't usually crack open the CD's of games I don't like and then throw them out. Yah... that was pretty stupid.

Intel P4 1.8Ghz
ASUS P4P800SE
768MB PC2700 DDR (running at 2100 limitation of CPU FSB)
nVidia geforceFX 5200 Ultra 128MB
Windows 2000 Pro SP4

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>Why don't all the MSTS fanboy get the heck out of here?
>It was his choice to brake piece of crap software that sell
>for $5 at EB.
>2nd this is Trainz forum, please go back to your MSTS forum
>to post how great
>MSTS is where only few people will read it, this is Trainz
>forum.
Do not do this again. Up until this point, the discussion was proceeding just fine.Continue, guys.

Danny - Pittsburgh

There's a light at the end of every tunnel, just pray it's not a train.

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