Bad weather

How can I avoid the problem you see on the picture? It looked good in TGATool, but when I open the engine in MSTS it looks horrible. I used Photoshop, made a new layer, used the Clouds effect, put transparancy back to app 40%. Like I said, looked good in TGATool, but not in MSTS. Any of you an idea what to do about it?Thnx
Rob

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RE: Bad weather, ATF1224, Sep-28-04, 02:48 PM, (1) RE: Bad weather, Robkeb, Sep-28-04, 03:11 PM, (2) RE: Bad weather, yellowdog, Sep-28-04, 04:38 PM, (3) RE: Bad weather, scottb613, Sep-28-04, 05:04 PM, (4) RE: Bad weather, Robkeb, Sep-28-04, 05:27 PM, (5) RE: Bad weather, Mousy, Sep-28-04, 07:39 PM, (6) RE: Bad weather, Robkeb, Sep-29-04, 04:16 AM, (7) RE: Bad weather, fallnflags, Sep-29-04, 11:40 PM, (8) RE: Bad weather, EMD_GE, Oct-02-04, 08:13 PM, (9) RE: Bad weather, Robkeb, Oct-03-04, 04:02 AM, (10) RE: Bad weather, scottb613, Oct-03-04, 01:05 PM, (11) RE: Bad weather, Mousy, Oct-03-04, 10:01 PM, (12) RE: Bad weather, wiscentral, Oct-04-04, 01:39 AM, (13) RE: Bad weather, NW 1218, Oct-04-04, 07:17 AM, (14) RE: Bad weather, scottb613, Oct-04-04, 08:54 AM, (15) RE: Bad weather, yellowdog, Oct-04-04, 11:32 AM, (16) RE: Bad weather, scottb613, Oct-04-04, 12:30 PM, (17) RE: Bad weather, scottb613, Oct-04-04, 01:51 PM, (18) RE: Bad weather, Mousy, Oct-04-04, 06:18 PM, (20) RE: Bad weather, scottb613, Oct-05-04, 04:35 PM, (21) RE: Bad weather, Mousy, Oct-05-04, 05:06 PM, (22) RE: Bad weather, Mousy, Oct-05-04, 06:52 PM, (23) RE: Bad weather, scottb613, Oct-06-04, 09:04 AM, (24) RE: Bad weather, TAMR159, Oct-04-04, 03:56 PM, (19)

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Try exporting as ace -trans?

Jake Mensel

The Norfolk Southern Winston-Salem District

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Thnx, Jake for your answer. I tried what you suggested, but can't see a lot of difference. Still lookes like an army camouflage.Rob

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The problem isn't with TGATool, your paint program, or your method of converting to ace. The problem is MSTS sucks at creating texture files that also have an alpha channel. You have to be extremely careful when mixing some colors, otherwise you get what you got rather than a weathered unit. Weathering is rather difficult to acheive, which is why so many of us paint "clean" models. Others of us are pretty darn good at it, but won't share secrets. Marc Nelson has OK weathering instructions over at www.3dtrains.com, but these are rather old methods that have been outdone by some newer repainters. Some people also use photographs to acheive weathered effects and that works OK as well. Keep trying and you'll come up with something that satisfies you (maybe).

Clayton

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Hi Rob...I use PSP9... I get much better effects trying to achieve the variation - I believe you are looking for - with the "lighten /darken" brush... If use a light brush effect - opacity - and - density - turned way down - you can easily create the variations on the skin - found in the real world... PSP let's my left click lighten and right click darken... In a minute or two - I get very realistic looking variation in the skin... Experiment is the KEY - as Clayton noted... If you don't like it - hit undo... Try different brushes and settings... If your program is anything like PSP - the combinations are endless... Find something you like - save the setting...Regards,
Scott

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Thanks guys, I'll keep trying. I changed the edit programm for TGATool to PSP 7. It has an airbrush, which I couldn't find in Photoshop. Rob

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>It has an airbrush, which I couldn't find in Photoshop.It's right here......

SD40-2: the best locomotive EMD ever made!
______________________________________________
Fort Worth Locomotive Shops
ENG & WAG Technician & Lighting Engineer

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Oops, how could I missed that????ROb

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I have found that using a very small air brush/spray tool to work best. While you paint program will feather and blend your overlay nicely, MSTS just doesn't seem to handle those blends well at all (witness your paint job). I also use very light paint...i.e. opacity of your color. Just like in real live many "coats" of lite painting works better than one heavy coat.
Don

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Hi Rob,Have you tried adjusting the Opacity "level" to a lower denominater?...say 15% to 30% and using the "paintbrush" adjust the "hardness,opacity",density of the brush(in tool options w/psp7).Here are some examples of the CSX sd70 i painted,obviously the weathered bitmap,and the clean bitmap.I think the shape file can also have alot to do with the results...meaning how many LOD's were added,or not added?and the distance levels in the LOD's.These LOD's can be adjusted in the shape file,but i wouldn,t know how.Good luck

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Thnx guys, for the tips. I guess I want to see results too fast. I have to be a bit more patient to achieve some results.Rob

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Hi Rob...LOL - you got that right - a good weather job takes years to perfect... Just kidding... I think weathering is the hardest part... Say it takes me a week to get the base paint job where I want it - I will usually spend another two weeks - to get all the lighting hi-lights and weather effects - to a point where I am satisfied...It takes a little practice and some effort - but - in my opinion - well worth it... How many clean locomotives do you see in the real world ???Looking forward to see how this turns out for you... Keep at it !Regards,
Scott

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Hows this for "Bad Weather"?

SD40-2: the best locomotive EMD ever made!
______________________________________________
Fort Worth Locomotive Shops
ENG & WAG Technician & Lighting Engineer

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How did you do that?

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Those engines need a run through the washrack. Ew.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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Hi Mousy...Always looking to improve my techniques... Would you share how you got those streaks down the side ??? I routinely use a wind blast - but - it seems to blur when I use it... Your streaks have good clear definition... Great job...Regards.
Scott

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-04 AT 11:34 AM (EDT)

For streaks (In PhotoShop), pick the airbrush tool, then pick the airbrush shape that looks like someone has done a messy job of erasing a chalkboard (I'm away from PC and don't have pics, sorry). Pick a color to streak (grey, white, black, whatever), applying various degrees of opacity. Hold down the mouse button and pull straight down on the texture and you should get a pretty good streak effect. EDIT: Personally, I think the streaks picture above are OK, but streaks are only a part of good weathering. Mousy, may I suggest that you remove specular lighting on those models, too, and add other colors rather than black to complete the effect? Just a suggestion.

Clayton

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-04 AT 01:10 PM (EDT)

Hi Clayton...I like this topic - right up my alley... I use PSP9 - the problem I have found when using a normal brush - it is very hard for me to keep very straight line up and down... There is always some variation that makes it look just not quite right...I have recently purchased an add-on product called "exact mouse" - which gives me the ability to lock the motion of X and Y axis... I can't believe PSP forgot to include this ability - it is very much needed... However this becomes real tedious when drawing a large number of lines... (lock - paint - unlock - move - lock - paint)I am in total agreement with you - that streaks are only a small part of the overall paint... Every little detail added - contributes greatly to the model as a whole... Even a small little label in some obscure location - helps a great deal - to make it a believable model... In my opinion - I think the key - is to never just have a solid color.... You never see that in nature... Even brand new locomotives have a great deal of variation on the surface... Just normal daylight creates many darker and lighter areas... As I stated above - I find that "Lighter / Darker" brush effect invaluable for that...I'll post some pics of a pair of Southern RS1's I have been working on for the last month or so... I am just finishing up with them now... You know - a few lighting mods - touch ups - and getting the package ready for upload... They are pretty heavily weather'd...405 is about done - a few touch ups...
409 still requires some work... Regards,
Scott

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Hmm - one shot didn't come across...

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-04 AT 06:21 PM (EDT)

Actually, here's what I did:If you got PhotoShop......1.Select the brush tool and load the Calligraphic Brush set.2.Then, choose the one the is vertical and has the number 28, and says Flat 28 Pixels (I got some clever feature that hides my cursor when I take screenshots, but it's kinda obvious which one it is).3.Set it up in Normal or Multiply Mode, and set the size at 25-75 pixels in diameter. Set the Opacity somewhere around 10-50%, and uncheck the Wet Edges box.4.I got these results using dark brown and black, at the following settings for the Flat 28 pixel Calligraphic Brush: Normal Mode; 36 % Opacity; 50 pixel Diameter; 0% Hardness; and Spacing at 250.Hope this helps
I just found this neat little brush a few days ago. Just wait 'til I learn to use layers and the masking function.

SD40-2: the best locomotive EMD ever made!
______________________________________________
Fort Worth Locomotive Shops
ENG & WAG Technician & Lighting Engineer

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Hi Mousy...Thanks for taking the time for a great detailed explanation... It looks like you can lock the motion in a verticle direction - and - if I understand correctly - it looks like you get multiple little lines in a single stroke... I played around with PSP last night - and - sadly - I was not able to replicate what you did in Photo Shop... Keep up the good work - that's the fun with this software - there are so many differcnet things to try... Back to the old drawing board... Regards,
Scott

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Actually, I don't lock the motion, otherwise I woulda mentioned something about that. What I do is move it horizontally, then go back over with a slight wavy motion. I would think that locking the motion would really give you a hard time.

SD40-2: the best locomotive EMD ever made!
______________________________________________
Fort Worth Locomotive Shops
ENG & WAG Technician & Lighting Engineer

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>may I suggest that you remove specular lighting on those modelsHow would I do that? I would prefer a manual method, if that's possible.

SD40-2: the best locomotive EMD ever made!
______________________________________________
Fort Worth Locomotive Shops
ENG & WAG Technician & Lighting Engineer

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Mousy,I believe you can remove the specular lighting via the "Shape File Manager" program... You first need to uncompress the shape - then it gives you options to control the specular lighting on all the surfaces... If you are unfamiliar with this program - the other GREAT thing it does - is allow you to manipulate the LOD's on a model... When TA built that SD40-2 model they had a pretty severe LOD config - in an attempt to keep the frame rates good on lower end machines... For those with boxes that can handle it - we eliminate or reduce the LOD effects on that model... It makes it look alot better... Here is a link for the software...
http://www.railpage.org.au/steam4me/trainsim/tutorials/sfm_faq.htmlRegards,
Scott

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-04 AT 03:58 PM (EDT)

- - Nick WilsonPS: This is one of Danny Beck's earlier models, an SP B39-8. Being SP, I felt it needed a serious weathering job applied to it to make it look atleast semi-realistic.

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