Continued Arguement about MSPaint

I decided to move this arguement to the proper place for it.
A debate on Weather MS Paint is up to making good repaints for Train sim. Here in this picture of a Engine that I use to test new ideas on I decided to do a weathered look on the boiler. I used one of my little tricks to make it work and I think it looks just fine. the Section is what is circled by red. Sorry about the look of this engine but it is where I test many of my ideas and aproches to paint and Reshadeing, So this engine may look like a Patch Work of many of my Ideas and Trials.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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Continued Arguement about MSPaint [View All], Boilerbuster, 08:43 PM, Dec-10-03, (0) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Vulcan Foundry, Dec-10-03, 09:34 PM, (1) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, kevarc, Dec-10-03, 09:41 PM, (2) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Vulcan Foundry, Dec-10-03, 09:56 PM, (3) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-10-03, 11:48 PM, (6) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Vulcan Foundry, Dec-11-03, 00:35 AM, (9) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-11-03, 01:00 AM, (10) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-11-03, 01:15 AM, (12) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-11-03, 10:28 AM, (15) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-11-03, 09:34 PM, (17) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Tim Frost, Dec-10-03, 10:34 PM, (4) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-10-03, 10:55 PM, (5) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-10-03, 11:59 PM, (7) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-11-03, 00:12 AM, (8) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-11-03, 01:09 AM, (11) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, ssw, Dec-11-03, 10:09 AM, (13) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-11-03, 10:23 AM, (14) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, pwillard, Dec-11-03, 01:28 PM, (16) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Stooopid_person, Dec-11-03, 10:55 PM, (18) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, pwillard, Dec-12-03, 09:18 AM, (19) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Stooopid_person, Dec-12-03, 09:22 AM, (20) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-12-03, 04:34 PM, (21) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-12-03, 06:58 PM, (22) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-12-03, 08:20 PM, (23) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Stooopid_person, Dec-12-03, 11:16 PM, (24) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, CPR_Malice_96th, Dec-13-03, 02:07 PM, (25) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, sawblade5, Dec-14-03, 00:02 AM, (26) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, GEevolution, Dec-14-03, 02:41 AM, (27) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, sawblade5, Dec-14-03, 03:03 AM, (28) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, kevarc, Dec-14-03, 03:11 AM, (29) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-14-03, 01:52 PM, (32) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-14-03, 09:36 PM, (36) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, heffed, Dec-15-03, 03:00 PM, (41) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-15-03, 07:37 PM, (43) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-15-03, 08:04 PM, (44) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, sawblade5, Dec-18-03, 00:11 AM, (46) Just ignore the clown!, svante, Dec-14-03, 04:29 AM, (30) RE: Just ignore the clown!, sawblade5, Dec-14-03, 11:15 AM, (31) RE: Just ignore the clown!, Boilerbuster, Dec-14-03, 02:07 PM, (33) RE: Just ignore the clown!, CPR_Malice_96th, Dec-14-03, 05:53 PM, (35) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-14-03, 02:58 PM, (34) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Vulcan Foundry, Dec-14-03, 09:54 PM, (37) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-15-03, 00:54 AM, (39) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, wdq4587, Dec-16-03, 11:02 PM, (45) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, smmille1, Dec-14-03, 10:30 PM, (38) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, VRfan, Dec-15-03, 05:03 AM, (40) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, baldwin, Dec-15-03, 05:31 PM, (42) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Stumbl, Dec-19-03, 09:09 AM, (47) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, Boilerbuster, Dec-19-03, 10:03 AM, (48) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, JonN, Dec-19-03, 03:10 PM, (49) RE: Continued Arguement about MSPaint, IcyFire, Dec-19-03, 03:17 PM, (50)

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 09:38 PM (EST)

Nope. Not even close to what can be done with PSP or Adobe Photoshop with their use of layers of varying opacity or with the vast array of tools within each program.You get what you pay for with a graphics editing program. How much did MS paint set you back note:edited with addition of witty comment <g>

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I am glad you added the witty comment. This person refuses to take advice from those who know.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 09:58 PM (EST)

>I am glad you added the witty comment. This person
>refuses to take advice from those who know. Exactly. Especially when you can buy an older version of Paint Shop Pro or Adobe Photoshop very cheaply on Ebay. Even the older versions allow layering and have more features than M$ Paint.I picked up Photoshop 5.0 and Corel Photo-paint Plus 7 for a combined figure of AUD30.00 for a friend just the other day.

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I got MS Paint for the increadable low price of Free. it came with my computer. Let me see right now in my pocket I have lint. How much has your pocket lint bought you lately.
I have a Truck I am running and funny I dont own the damn thing but I am poring money into it anyway. Cause my Boss is just as broke as I am. What money I do see I have to spend it on what I have. So unless one of you were willing to buy me PSP or Photoshop I will never see it.
Besides with what memory I have left on my computer another program would be unwelcome as I have dumped about 10 programs as it is just to make room for Train Sim and Flight Sim 2004.NO I am not asking anyone to buy me a program just using it as an example of just how poor I am.
Like I mentioned before I am lucky to make 11,000 dollars a year and after living expences that leaves me with very little spending money.
I have a Car sitting in my drive way with a Blown Engine and it has been sitting there for 3 years. I would love to have the money to put it on the road again, so I am left with a Choice. Buy a Engine wich cost will Be 250 dollars and all that is wrong with it is it is the Basic Block Head and internal parts..... nothing external. or by Paint Shop.
What do you do for a Living, I bet you make 10 times what I do so money isnt a Wish I had thing with youDon Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-03 AT 00:38 AM (EST)

> I got MS Paint for the increadable low price of Free. it
>came with my computer. Let me see right now in my pocket I
>have lint. I picked up Adobe Photoshop 5 for AUD15.50 which is USD11.00 off Ebay. I would suggest you have a look and see what you can find.>How much has your pocket lint bought you lately. Let me see, based on todays exchange rate It would buy me around 10grams of carpet fluff and a small piece of dried bread I found behind the couch. Why not sell some of your dumped programs in order to buy a better graphics program.> What do you do for a Living, I bet you make 10 times what I
>do so money isnt a Wish I had thing with you What I do for a living and what I make is nobodys business but my own..you mind your manners and instead of launching an attack on me keep to the subject on hand which was the comparsion of MS Paint to other programs.The are two kinds of people in this world. Thermometers and Thermostats. Which one you choose to be is your decision.Have a nice day

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Other Times I have mentioned other programs that I do have and do use. These programs Used with MS paint do achieve anything that photo shop pro will do. First off I have Ulead Photo Express. With fonts and ageing and weathering abilities I have with that program it is where I age and Number my Engines. it also has color, tint, Sharpening, and Lighting, and Contrast abilities. It also has Several efects that I can produce with the paint work if I want. And I have Microsoft Picture it wich also has Efects and stuff I can use. This last program I am still learning but it is working good and layers well. here is a repaint I did with it (Note it isnt Train sim but still A repaint that I have done with it)Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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With this post you are acknowledging that MS Paint is very limited and you are using other programs with more advanced features to help make up for what's missing in MS Paint.--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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The only Reason I used another program for that repaint is cause MSpaint wouldnt open the format that the Bird Of Prey was painted in. Microsoft Picture IT would open that type of texture file. what I painted on it was the feathers on the wing. in the orignal they were Green and the Star Trek TNG and OS Bird of Prey they were Red.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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You said you used Ulead photo express for it's blur and sharpening tools.--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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Hard to beat MSPaint to do simple alpha textures in my own (albeit limited) experiences but for complex designs or weathering you need something more complex... What you have there is decent but it would really make it to the next level with some more work...Tim Frost
The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 10:59 PM (EST)

This is done with photoshop 5 using multiple layers with varying degrees of opacity for the effect. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I doubt anyone could match this with MS Paint.--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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They seem close enuf for my taste. Note in the Pictures of the real engines there is no sign of Weathering eather and they didnt use Photo Shop Pro eatherDon Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3fd7f90c65e91e76.jpg

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The only Problems that I realy find is that 2504 is supposed to be a GP35E and I used a GP38-2 and 6231 is supposed to be a SD39 and I used a SD40-2 since both Engines were not available at the time that I made them. I took the time to paint them by hand and they look accurate enuf thought there are some small nitpick items that one can pick at from the pictures of the real ones. However since most of you have never heard of Kyle and I was the one asking for them to be painted in the first place I am the only one here in this forum that realy cares what they look like anyway.
You all said 2 years ago when I first asked for them to make them myself and here I am, I made them. There they are for all to see. Compleat and done with a simple program. I am glad they are done and I owe none of you nothing for them. I asked for no help on them. and in my limited Knolege, Painted them and they turned out just as I wanted them to turn out. not only that but with multiple Road numbers so I have 5 differant KYLE engines to choose from Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-03 AT 01:13 AM (EST)

It's a simple fact that the capabilities of MS Paint are far less than PSP or Photoshop. Sure you can make textures with MS Paint, but they won't look as good as textures done with a full blown graphics application. At a quick glance, I've already noticed some problems. (such as the blocky colours, jagged edges, etc...) If you had PSP or Photoshop, you would be able to do a better job. It's as simple as that.BTW, if you are worried about money, etc... Either do what Vulcan Foundry said, or keep an eye on computer magazines. An Australian mag recently had the full version of PSP 5 on their coverdisc for only A$9.95. I would be suprised if the US mags didn't have similar things from time to time.--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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That GP38-2 looks like crap plain and simple. The sides are pixelated, and you can still see green showing through there. with Photoshop or PSP, you could have fixed that.

Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas
I Support MSTS IRC Chat. http://chat.dtimsts.vze.com
Member #3, Trainorders Refugee Association - http://evans.railfan.net/TORA.htm

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The sides are pixulated because of a mistake I made that I corrected on the SD40-2. the GP38 I made the mistake of enlarging the small sections of the mat that I made and it pixulated on me. With the SD40-2 I didnt enlarge the mat and got a much smoother paint. a Lesson that I learned between the two paint jobs. MS paint can eather give you a terrible paint job or it can give you a smooth paint. I will get some closer Screen shots of the SD40 so you can see for yourselves that it is a far better paint job then the GP38. it is all a matter of Technech on how it turns out and I tryed a differant approch to the SD40 then I did the GP38.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-03 AT 01:47 PM (EST)

Let's examine what someone else said... "Hard to beat MSPaint to do simple alpha textures". Really? As a matter of fact it's easy as hell to beat the crap out of MSpaint for doing simple alpha textures. It remains a very manual task in MSPAINT.I can create an alpha mask in "affordable" PSP, (Any version since at least version 4), in 3 steps, from my MAIN texture without touching a SINGLE PIXEL in the mask. And it works right the first time, everytime.Let me explain. We are not saying it's impossible to do good work in MSPAINT. But there is a limit to what you can fine tune and adjust if you make a critical error early in the development cycle, for example.Say you chose a really saturated BLACK for your boiler and you got all your rivets and details done including weathering... (I'm not talking about using a PHOTOGRAPH either. There is hardly any work or skill involved doing that!) Going back and tweaking your work is not a trivial task in MSPAINT. How are you going to go back and fix BLACK part of your boiler without messing with all the other work you have done... In a true "graphics editor", you only need to either repaint that "layer" where the boiler color was, or use a Color Replacer if it's trivial. No more than 30 seconds wasted.
ANALOGY: MSPAINT is a MANUAL TYPERITER. It *WILL* let you type your homework onto 8 1/2 by 11 inch paper in a nice readble format.In contrast, Paint Shop Pro is a Word Processor. You get the same results... but you don't have to get out the "WHITE OUT" or start completely over if you screw up.

The skinners talk about layers... Simple... once you start using layers, you will NEVER EVER EVER go back to doing anything serious in a graphic editing tool that does not support them. It's a simple as that.By the way. On Ebay, you can buy version 7 of Paint Shop Pro starting at a whopping $6.00. SIX DOLLARS! You spend that much on LUNCH!Not a single one of the people that are using Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro or any other more than semi-serious graphic editor are going to support your PRO-MSPAINT arguments. It's just not going to happen.The time you WASTE because of all of the *missing* time-saving operations in MSPAINT you are never going to get back. When you earn a living with the results of YOUR time and effort you begin to evaluate how much time you spend on something is worth.I've said this before, I'll repeat it here. Back when Windows 3.0 came out, I uncovered a reproducable bug that would crash the system while using MSPAINT. (I no longer remember the specifics). I called Microsoft Support. (I know they have a Knowledge Base website now, but this was 1990! The Internet was not Synonymous with WWW at that time.)Anyway, they guy on the phone seemed quite surprised I was calling to complain about MSPAINT. He said, "Fix it? Heck no, it's gimme product. If you want to do serious graphics work, buy a serious program. MSpaint was only there because Apple had MACDRAW. My problem might get resolved in the next release of Windows... but MSPAINT was only created to fill in the gap while you decided which REAL program you wanted to buy. Like something from ADOBE." Pete Willard


http://www.trainsimstuff.com for beta releases, fonts, and project news.

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>I've said this before, I'll repeat it here. Back when
>Windows 3.0 came out, I uncovered a reproducable bug that
>would crash the system while using MSPAINT. (I no longer
>remember the specifics). I called Microsoft Support. (I
>know they have a Knowledge Base website now, but this was
>1990! The Internet was not Synonymous with WWW at that
>time.)But there wasn't M$ Paint in Windows 3.0! It was Paintbrush!

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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Are you trying to say it's a different program... they added 2 or 3 features and called it MSPAINT.
Pete Willard


http://www.trainsimstuff.com for beta releases, fonts, and project news.

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>
>Are you trying to say it's a different program... they added
>2 or 3 features and called it MSPAINT. It's the same program, and added 2 or 3 features called in M$Paint in the next version of Windows(Win 95 I think).

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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Kyle 6231 Painted in MS Paint with exception to the Numbers. the Numbering was done in Ulead Photo ExpressDon Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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> Kyle 6231 Painted in MS Paint with exception to the
>Numbers. the Numbering was done in Ulead Photo Express
>These skins are nothing special and they seem to be rather blotchy with poor colour gradients. If you were using a full blown graphics application, you could just put a little bit of noise into the textures to fix some of the problems. Also, again you said you used another program (Ulead photo express) to help make up for the lack of features in MS Paint.--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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Why not just forget about painting them all togather and just use photos of the real thing to make the textures. Frankly I think the best looking engines are those that use pictures for textures. Wich by the way takes far less time and only requires MSpaint to do. The end resoult are Locomotives and Rollingstock that look true to life.
And instead of going out and getting Photo Shop I am going to eventualy get A digital Camera and use pictures I take with it to do all my textures. Frankly From now on I have decided that all my repaints will use Photos as the textures.
These engines are my first repaints and frankly there as good as I am going to make them since they are not in the file liburary and never will be. I made them for my personal use. As far as any others that I had made they have long since been removed from the file liburary and will never be put back on.
I may at one time choose to share them with a select few others who I deem should have them but no others. BTW I never had any intention to reliese any engines or rolling stock that I have shared pictures of, As I had said months ago I will show screenshots of what I repaint but noting more. But however hardly anyone seems to care anyway so I will quit wasteing my time.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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>Also, again you said you used another program (Ulead photo
>express) to help make up for the lack of features in MS
>Paint. Paint can actually type anti-aliased words, from font sizes 6 and below and over 14. Font sizes 7-12 have no anti-aliasing. Fonr size 13 anti aliasing is bad. From size 14 onwards it is much better.

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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Photoshop / Paintshop Pro = Good !!MS Paint = Bad !!Later

Tim Kent

=*=BIA=*=Malice

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But Photo shop is the most exensive program. I belive it costs around $5,000 I have heard. That is why I use Infanview it has some goood quality features and it is free.

Chris Knight
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$400-$600, I believe

The Santa Fe Super Chief

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-03 AT 03:16 AM (EST)

I don't have that much money for Paint Shop Pro. I don't see advantages over the $10 paint program I use known as Photo Suite (Which can do the cabviews well), the Freeware program InfanView (Does tons of stuff like expand and srink images), and last but not least MS Paint. When I done my Amtrak PH-V Superliner Cars I used Infanview to expand the texture to 1024x1024 then I used both programs to add the stripes the logos, and last I used MS-Paint to apply the Numbers and Words. Now I can still work some nice stuff trough what I got. I also noticed this topic talked about Weathering. I will never again use MS Paint to Weather My Locomotives or Rolling Stock. I'll find a way to do it with some other Program like Photo Suite. The Price for PhotoShop Pro is more than I make in 1 month. Not everybody has that type of money. Anyway I have better things to spend $600 on and its not a simple program like that. In fact you can probally find clones or simular software to Paint Shop Pro for less than $30 that does many of the basic needs plus stuff like weathering, color editing, and photo hacking.

Chris Knight
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That is easy to answer - quality.http://www.jasc.com/shopping/catalog.asp?Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Never Mind them sawblade they want you to go spend a fortune to do a few repaints to make you look like a fool for spending so much and you will never see a return on investment. that is the point I have been trying to say all along. Paint Shop pro is expencive and I wouldnt buy it if I had the money. I can get a Engine for my other car wich has 6000 miles on it for $250 and have the car on the road again. but they would have me spend that kind of money for a program that would take me nowere cause it also requires you to know how to use the program in question. My Point is that you can own a Ferrari and you can look good in it, but if you dont know how to drive one you will prove nothing by having one. One can turn out just as crappy work in Paint shop pro as they can in MSpaint can they not. It isnt the program that makes the paint look good, its the person behind the program that does the work. A Ferrari or a Pinto will both get you there it just Depends on the route you take to get there.

But trying to argue about not buying the More expencive programs is like farting in the wind it just gets blown back in your face.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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>Paint Shop pro is expencive and I wouldnt buy it if I
>had the money. Jasc Paint Shop Pro 8 is currently available on the Jasc website for US$79 download or US$87 boxed. It's no where near the US$5000 that some people around here have been saying! Even Adobe Photoshop isn't anywhere near that much!Anyway, there have been a number of people in this thread who have suggested that earlier versions of these programs are a good way to go for those on a budget, but you refuse to listen. I got PSP5 on a magazine for A$9.95 and I would be extremely suprised if this doesn't happen in the US from time to time.--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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> Never Mind them sawblade they want you to go spend a
>fortune to do a few repaints to make you look like a fool
>for spending so much and you will never see a return on
>investment. that is the point I have been trying to say all
>along. Talk about missing the point!Nobody is asking you to spend a fortune.You made a post arguing that M$ Paint is great for repaints. People have just been telling you that there are indeed better alternatives.If you fail to realise this, that's your problem.There is a very good reason professional graphics designers don't use M$ Paint.-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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Yes there are lots of good Alternitives, I wish I could afford them but as far as it goes for what money I have to spend MS paint wich came with windows is suffiecent enuf for me. I wish I could afford to go out and buy Paint shop pro. Trust me I would get it if I could, I dont want to buy it on ebay it may be scratched all to hell and I would have wasted my money. If I buy it I buy new.
Being that the GP38 is my first real repaint and the SD40 being my second I think I did good. I have seen far worse but I am not saying that it is worth gold. I know my work could be far better and I am not saying it is the best. It seems that everyone els missed my point.
Yes there is a very good reason Professional Graphics designers dont use MS paint, They have more money to spend for better programs for one, and two if they didnt no one would buy what they make.
My work on the other had is not Professional as I didnt take any schooling on it nor have I had any training, I didnt even have any help from noone on it. I did it myself with no help nor advice, nor any training of any kind.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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Gimp is free and it's better than MS Paint.Gimp for windows:
http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/gimp/--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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Speaking about taking classes I took a course on Macromedia Freehand. That is a program I wished I had, but I do now have half the idea to work the program called Gimp. Because I hadn't messed with the professional stuff in years I am having to learn the stuff over again. Well, I decided I wanted to list the stuff I'm using to do my repaints. 1. MGI Photo Suite 3 (I have only been using this for cab repaints for my SD40-2 and Switcher Fleet. Other than that I find this program to be worse than MS Paint.)2. MS Paint (I use this for Copy and Pasting, and placing numbers and textures to my repaints.)3. Infanview (I have been using this to resize and enlarge images. This program offers a wide list of filters to make excellent quality enlargements.)4. Softy Fontmaker (This is a fontmaker program I use in case I have to edit my True Type Fonts and make new fonts. It also has a feature to trace bitmaps so I can take a texture and turn into a typeable font in Windows.) You can download this shareware program at http://www.soft-ware.net/multimedia/schriften/designer/index.asp .There are 2 programs I am currently looking into and playing around with right now that was mentioned in this thread. These programs are Gimp and Dogwaffle where I found thier website at http://www.thebest3d.com/dogwaffle/ . I do not have plans to by a very pricey program to do my repaints. I do not intend to do Payware repaints at all so I don't find it necessary at all to do this.

Chris Knight
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Just ignore the clown. By replying to his posts you give him what he craves, attention.....His crappy repaints made using crappy MS Paint aren't worth the attention he gets.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-03 AT 11:29 AM (EST)

I didn't just use MS Paint. I used it for adding text to the textures and Copy and Pasting. I used the Other Programs like Photo Suite for Color Changes and I used Infanview for Enlargements and TO Shrink Images for better quaility. In fact If I want better Quality all I have to do is work a 2048 X 2048 texture I can work that in MS Paint and then When I'm done I can Shrink it down using Infan View to 1024 x 1024 and produce some nice results. Now If I'm having Trouble with Texturing All I have to do is place the text in a larger form on the same background color and shrink it down. Infanview does an very excellent job on this. For enlargements Infanview provides Variouse Filter I can use to enlarge them. The slowest filter doesn't always work just right so I try the other filters to to make sure I get the best results. I'm am also pointing out that MS Paint is not 100% crap like some people may think or have been thinking on this thread. Some of them do have Paint Shop Pro and that does simply makles their MS Paint obsolete, becasue the program does the same stuff as it and Very Much more. I just don't know spending more than what I have to spend in a month is worth it. BTW On EBay I saw Paint Shop Pro 5 LE for real cheap on EBAY, this is what I can afford. I am Wondering how well that works and how nice the filter are on this? I am also wondering if it does have the Magic Wand Tool for color editing ETC?OH BTW, Read all the way through my posts before calling me bad names.

Chris Knight
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Its Comments like this that makes me wonder what kind of Community this really is. you call us Clowns for using a program that is available to us despite we both have stated that we dont make enuf money to buy the good programs. I am flat @$$ broke how much nicer can I put it then that. I dont make enuf money to buy it even at Ebay prices. and that is no Joke. So I am a Clown for not making enuf money to buy such programs. What do you do for a living, Were you fortunet to be born with a Silver spoon up your @$$ that your family sent you to collage. I wasnt and then you say well there are grants to get thru collage. So you like people living off of your Tax money your saying. I often here people complainging about welfare and other handouts and I flat out refuse to go that route cause of it. I would rather die then to take out handouts from someone. If I cant make it on my own then what is the worth of it. Sure I took one year in A community collage but they didnt offer such programs as Paint shop and Graphics there. they were lucky to have a Class on how to Use windows wich if you cant use that and need Classes you shouldnt even be alloud to touch a Computer.
I didnt start this thread to insult anyone nor did I expecct anyone to insult me over it.
IF at anytime I do get Photo Shop I know now that the work I will eventualy do there will be for only me and noone else.
I will start to pick what people really want and just show them screen shots of it and say see you could have this but unfortinatly I am a Clown so I will not let you use it.
Granted my work isnt the best and I never have clamed that it is.
But I only see that what I call good work is those engines that use Photo Texturing and that makes all other Repaints look just like what they are, Cartoons, 3D Cartoons that is all anyone here is making except those who use Photo TexturesDon Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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>His crappy repaints made using crappy MS Paint aren't worth
>the attention he gets. LOL,Hey Svante ........ nice to see you.If your not around again for awhile .. have a good XmasLater

Tim Kent

=*=BIA=*=Malice

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In my book Photo Texturing is the best. it looks more realistic and you dont have to worry about weathering. you get that effect by finding a well weathered engine in wich to take pictures of. both engines and the Rolling Stock on this train are all Photo textured and I think are among the best looking of the downloads out there. these are freewear and I got them here at train sim. Texturing like this dosnt require a fancy program, Just a good Camera a Scanner and MS Paint
I have been working on a Ex SP tunnel Engine that uses Photo Texturing but I am not finished with it yet and all the work there is being done with MS PaintDon Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3fdcc06225f52315.jpg

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3fdcc0bc27454dad.jpg

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-03 AT 09:55 PM (EST)

Frankly those textures are shite. If you want to be taken seriously take the advice of every reply you've had from people about this topic and while you're at it stop whinging about how life has dealt you a raw deal.Get of your arse and do something about it !

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I am doing something about it. I drive a truck for a living. I haul Grain and its a hectic type of run as if you dont haul overloaded you make nothing doing it. I get payed comission wich isnt much but fortnatly I dont have the added expence of owning the truck.
as far as doing something about it. I have tryed for 5 years to find something else but its all there is other then working on a farm, and those jobs are all taken. That leaves me with COOP and they arnt hiring in the winter they are most likely laying off there workers.
I live 160 miles from Denver and there are no jobs between here and there and I cant afford to move to Denver nor would I want to.
I am not Complaining about my Condition its just I have priorities on where I spend my money. but it seems with some of you you dont have to worry since you all seem to have lots of money just to blow on nothing.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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>Just a good Camera a Scanner and MS Paint Unless you take the photo youself and can take many times as you desire. Use photo as texture is much difficult. Otherwise there will be fill with such skin. But the fact is not. And basically photo as texture is out of ability of MSPaint! Unless you photo don't need any adjust. Hope you have such luck. MSPaint may be only better on draw line.

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Forgive me for only skimming in case a similar point has already been made.I don't really understand the point of all of this arguing. the output of all of the graphics programs for the purposes of MSTS is the same - RGB data. It's the relative ease with which the program allows you to achieve the desired goal. MS Paint CAN be used to produce high-quality repaints. A hex editor CAN be used to produce the very same level of quality, although I certainly don't recommend using that method. I suspect enough freeware tools can be amassed to complement MS Paint, if not replace it entirely. I've never used it, but GIMP is supposed to be quite capable, albeit a little odd since it's a Linux port. But it's free.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-03 AT 05:03 AM (EST)

Gimp is pretty powerful, but the windows version runs a little slowly and it will take non-linux/unix users a while to get use to it. However, it is certainly much better than MS Paint. It also has exactly the same price as paint (ie: $0.00)--Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/Australian Bulldogs for MSTS! B, S, GM & 42's now available!

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There is another free program, Dogwaffle, the earlier version 1.something. Handles layers and alpha as well.mervyn.

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PSP costs.... yep
mspaint free....yep
photoshop costs...yepyou use mspaint cos it's free, uhhhh is a camera free?
or a scanner if it isn't digital? film?Boiler,
no one is demanding you go buy anything. The only clown part I see is that you persist in saying that paint will do everything the others do.
Sorry.I do know someone who skins exclusively with paint, and does very well at it too. He does have more practice than you do tho.
BTW... threatening to take your toys and go home will usually get you a line like
"Don't go away mad, just go away"note the quotes

"I do what my Rice Krispies tell me to do"

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I never said that it will do everything that the others said.
All I ever implyed is that it will turn out good paint just like anyother paint program.
Considering that those two engines are my first and second repaints ever I think I did a good job considering some others firsts out there.
Granted its not anything like Hack's work but for a start it is good.
I had requested those Kyle Engines when I first joined this forum 2 years ago under the screen name Captiandon, they like alot of other times told me to paint it myself and I did. Now they insult the end resoults, cause I used MS paint, When I painted them I didnt have a dime to my name and was between jobs.
Of corse they are not the best hell I took only a few days to paint them.
Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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Well, I used MS Paint for my first two repaints, but those were mostly another person's work anyway. I just renumbered and added some text, but the main paint scheme was not my work. If I had not discovered how to use Photo Deluxe (which was part of my printer's software package), then I would never have tried doing "original" repaints. I'd rather release nothing at all than release crap.Jonathan Nikiforovs.
Milepost 180, CP Belleville Sub.Repainter for Yonder Locomotive Works.

"A crictic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased - he hates all creative people equally." - Lazarus Long

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I think we'ev sucked any useful life outa this thread..Locked.Shawn Kenselaar, shawnssk@yahoo.com
Texture Toucher & Ad designer for TKW & YLW, Forum Mod. Feel free to e-mail me.
Holiday Plans: Spending time with that special No one (Just like the last 19 years),
Closing the orphanage, and Evicting helpless people & Raising Taxes Muahahahahh!!!

The NYO&W.. Running from somewhere to nowhere, But never forgotten

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