Virtual Skinning Primer 101

Skinner Dudes:Okay, let me throw some things at you for a question/answer session. Perhaps this will not only help me understand what's ahead, but maybe some others that are in the same boat as I am, as well.First, let me upload three prototype pics of engines that I hope to someday "conquer" and add to the Ft. Smith Sub that's under construction for MSTS. (Hopefully the pics will follow this paragraph!)First, let me ask about what will need to be accomplished within 3D manipulation software, and what would be handled by the photo software.* The basic GP7 details (i.e. louvre placements, no dynamic blister, no winterization hatch, etc.)... are those be things that will have to be determined within the 3D realm?* Will the different spark arrestor exhaust stacks have to be handled within 3D?* The non-typical canvas visors: 3D or photo shop?Now, let's talk about paint scheme. Note there are two different black and yellow paint schemes. The one with the most strpes we Friscophiles call the "Original" black and yellow scheme. The one with less stripes is called the "Phase 1" simplification. Will it be possible to make a basic skin of each phase, and then overlay the lettering/number? OR, even phase skins that include the "FRISCO" script, and only change numbers on the cab sides and bug boards?I've included a shot of a faded orange & white scheme the Frisco began using in 1965. Will I need to use different texture colors for the hood doors, louvres, etc, on a unit using orange and white, as opposed to a unit that will be in black and yellow?Lastly, let me see if I can successfully upload a pic of a MSTS F unit that is already skinned for the Frisco... (hopefully the pics appear somewhere along here!)Now, whomever did this reskin has given me a fantastic start on some Frisco F's in the "Original" black and yellow scheme. (Some units retained this scheme up until the early 70's). However, there are a couple faux paus that this Friscophile would like to correct on the models I will be using. First items would be the yellow headlight and yellow pinstripe that borders the green anti-glare panel atop the nose in front of the windshields. When I open the .tga file for this engine... I cannot figure out where to replace the yellow with black, for the pieces are all disjointed and spread out like a blanket. (See the enclosed jpeg conversion of the .tga.)What would I replace on that quilt full of disjointed images to remove the yellow around the headlight and the yellow pinstripe?Lastly, the number is wrong (Frisco's EMD F's were in the 5000 series)... can I simply replace the numbers taken from a scan of the correct number style? Will they be "illuminate", or is there something that needs to be addressed to keep the numbers "illuminated"? Okay. This concludes my first lesson. It's a biggie... but that's the way I do things: Jump in with both feet and learn as much as fast as you can. Thank you for any input you will be willing to share! Andre "Coonskin" Ming

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RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, CSX_Jim, Aug-28-02, 08:38 AM, (1) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, Coonskin, Aug-28-02, 10:52 AM, (2) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, unklu, Aug-28-02, 12:16 PM, (3) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, unklu, Aug-28-02, 12:29 PM, (4) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, unklu, Aug-28-02, 12:46 PM, (5) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, Coonskin, Aug-28-02, 04:40 PM, (6) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, Hack, Aug-28-02, 10:00 PM, (7) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, Coonskin, Aug-29-02, 01:30 AM, (8) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, Hack, Aug-29-02, 01:54 AM, (9) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, unklu, Aug-29-02, 09:52 AM, (10) RE: Virtual Skinning Primer 101, Coonskin, Aug-29-02, 11:19 AM, (11)

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Andre,I would think that the yellow around the headlight is on the left side of the .tga file you posted. There are two circles surrounded by yellow...that would be my guess.The yellow stripe is another guess. Are there any other .tga files for this model. There may be a file that has various body parts on it and that is where the stripe might be.

Jim

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Hi Jim, Thanks for wading through my long-winded post. Regarding the tga's:Yes, there's the top/sides tga, but it stops at the front cab window. There's also one tga each for a the roof fan, numberboard, pilot, some undescrept little black square thing, and a patch of solid black. See that green patch on that tga pic I posted? Would that be what the program uses to "paint" the anti-glare panel in front of the windshields? If so, note there's a little yellow pinstripe along the edge... could it be that if that is removed it will eliminate the pinstripe portion?(Sort of a crap-shoot, eh?)What'cha thunk, Big Guy?Andre

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Coonskin & skin dudes; I have looked at the same kind of situation you are trying to get through now. I have since come with something that helps and I'd like to include it here. (see attachm't below.) I primed each skin of 3d T's F7 demo. F7aa, nose, and F7ab, side and roof wrap. I drew a matrix of different colored lines on the nose texture in both the X and Y directions; spaced equally, you know. Tossed them onto the engines, in the sim, for something to refer to; on the engines and in the sim. Paint over a fresh copy of the primed bitmap or even the grid. Keep a copy of the grid .bmp handy in the same folder you're working from for a quick reference. This whole thing tells me where things on the skin texture are going to end up on the finished engine. Note, also, the checkerboard up the side of the nose texture. I figured out how much of the 'skin' shows up on the finished eng. and blanked that out with B$W checkers. A Blue & Orange check pattern was then drawn up the side of both bitmaps revealing the fact, that, the number of pixels doesn't match between the two at the seam. A little more work is involved there then. 3D T's new version of F's will be easier to paint, as they mentioned. I hope this is one of the things they worked on. I've done this on the Geep as well, but I thought I'd send the F unit along as an example. The 'F' really gets funny in the outside, lower corners of the windshield. The Geep isn't so bad though. This isn't a cure all by any means but it seem to keep one from wandering around in the dark. Render in the sim, look at the lines and which color they are, figure out which direction you want to go in and count pixels.
Works for me! 'Talk to you again. Lu.

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Coons.... Yeah, you know; No attachments---AGAIN. Here thay are.

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Coonskin; One more! The yellow stripe on the bottom of the anti-glare on top of the nose is that yellow stripe under the green rectangle you painted just above the black part of the nose. I think that if you just painted the stripe green, it should end up just right. The bottom of the yellow stripe on the engine, to me, looks like it's where it belongs. Lu.

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Hey thanks for that idea Unk Lu.Say, once I have that tga loaded into my photoshop, and the changes made, it will save as a tga. Now, will it go back through the Tgatool 2 and end up as an .ace file, or will I need to convert the altered tga into an .ace file in someway?Thanks! Won't be long and I'll have some Frisco F's that are a bit more accurate.Andre

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While not perfect, the newer templates for the v3 F-Unit are a far cry from the v2 and v2.5 skins. I spent a lot of time tweaking the maps to line up properly, and 95% fits perfectly. Exception is the nose top and numberboards, as there is a distortion issue over a compound curved surfaces to contend with. Nevertheless, the new skins will be a breeze to paint, and stripes for most liveries will sharp and clear. Things line up where it counts...
The rear diaphram map is raised to allow for other details not shown...
Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

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Wow... they sure do.My commerical F's I currently have from you are the 2.5's or something... I think?Hopefully your new V3's will be even easier for a rank skinning newbie like myself to be able to get a handle on quicker.Andre Ming

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Hi Andre,The current Pro Series is v2, while the ones included with Cajon are 2.5. The main differences are that the v2.5 model has changed quite a bit (and done so for Cajon), but still use the old image maps. v3 locos are remodeled and use a new set of maps, but will be oodles-easier to reskin. They'll also have some new sounds and cabs. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

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C'skin; To answer you question about 'Make ace', I think that if your TGA Tool has located 'Make ace', then the conversion is automatic and done by (T' Tool) itself. BTW. Your upper headlight is painted by the area at the upper L. hand corner of the bitmap. Use the top one,. I've painted the lower one and found it not show up anywhere on a finished engine. The lower h'light is acctually painted by the area inside the nose door outline. Pattern in a little green to finish off the 'glare' panel and your done! Hope this helps. Write back to let us know how she turned out. Lu.

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Thanks for all the input guys. Lu... I'll give that a try and see what happens! Alas, it will need to be later tonight, I'm on call right now and don't need to get involved in something of that nature.Andre Ming

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