Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please read

i want you to cretique the loco livery
darkended:
original livery color:

which is better? i'm asking you this since you are a repainting master. i even used your technique to make the loco's metal appear shiny as on your models.
Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb 17 year old train sim repainter, autocad 2002 3d modeler

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RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, controll, Jul-01-02, 08:58 AM, (1) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, Stumbl, Jul-01-02, 09:18 AM, (3) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, TexasWestern70Mac, Jul-01-02, 10:07 PM, (7) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, controll, Jul-02-02, 01:16 AM, (9) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, TexasWestern70Mac, Jul-02-02, 02:52 PM, (10) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, controll, Jul-01-02, 09:17 AM, (2) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, zhivago47, Jul-01-02, 12:55 PM, (4) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, Cell0518, Jul-01-02, 05:15 PM, (5) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, TexasWestern70Mac, Jul-01-02, 10:02 PM, (6) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, zhivago47, Jul-01-02, 10:36 PM, (8) RE: Rick lamp, i know your out here and online, please, TexasWestern70Mac, Jul-02-02, 02:53 PM, (11)

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LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-02 AT 09:06 AM (EDT)

Hi Bill,First off I am just repainting a scheme that Verne Horton of TA has so artfully created to look realistic, he is the artist that gets all the credit for each of my repaints looking so good as he made it easy for us to repaint the units to begin with....AS for your repaint....(don't take this too hard, cause it looks good but could use some tweaking to look great)...In the image I show some of the things that can make the repaint better and more realistic....additionally you can create shadow details under each handrail to represent lighting hints so that the viewer gets more of a "real" feel on the unit....In PSP you can create objects the same dimensions as the rails and lights and numberboards, then place them at the same locations and create a shadow on the new object....make a copy of the rail light or numberboard and then paste the new object onto the location and cover it with the original part so that it overlies the rail light or board and then gives the impression of shading beneath the part...
here is an exampleIn the case of doing the TA units and the numberboards you would not actually place the numberboard over the shadow, but put the shadow onto the location of the nose where the numberboard is going to appear so that the shadow and board line up correctly on the final model scheme.But using the above example for handrails you can put shadow detail beneath them and under the headlights and anywhere else you think that shadowing can be effective....sand fillers, rails near roof line, window overhangs...etc...use your imagination for this and trial and error to get the locations exact....Also in the case of your repaint, the rivet detail appears to be gone on the final repaint...if it is you can go and place the greyscale image of the rivet detail over your model and use transparency to get it to merge into your color scheme....The following images are how I come about getting any paint scheme into a repaintable form so as to make it easier for me to repaint it. First - pick the image you want to paint.
(this image was created by merging the two seperate paints of the E7A unit into one image)
Second - Using TGATOOLS2 send it to the paint program and convert this image to a greyscale image, (I convert it to an 8-bit greyscale image and then convert this 8-bit image back to a 24-bit image for repainting).adjust the greyscale 24-bit image for contrast and brightness so as to get the areas that abut each other into similar brightness and shading.Third - I then use various methods to color parts of the unit so that I arrive at the desired scheme.....I use a combination of all the tricks above for creating detail to get the scheme right. Experiment with ways of coloring parts of the greyscale image so as to arrive at your desired color....(This attempt was done using the selection tool and selecting the stripe area, then using color balance to get the color I wanted)(This method leaves more of the detail than the following example)

(This attempt was done using the object placement tool and placing a colored object the size of the stripe area onto the model and using transaparency to make it seethru to get the desired result)
This image is not associated with the color stripes above, but this is the finished working repaint of the GM Demo E7A....
You can see the rivet details and some shading around objects was done also the blending of the colors at the joint where the two paint sections are going to split for the TA_701 and TA_704 ACe files can be accomplished with this method.
(this image is 765 pixels wide and 512 pixels high, when I use it to form the ACE files I get one image of 512X512 and one image of 253X512 which makes up the TA_701 and TA_704 parts.)I know this is a long and drawn out semi tutorial but, for the repaints to come out looking great a lot of effort and care needs to be taken to preserve the original image details as much as is possible....and sometimes adding details needs to be done on models that have no detailing for them....I hope this helps you and if you need more info let me know.Rick

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Thanks Rick , great post , I learned a lot

"I do what my Rice Krispies tell me to do"

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Rick do you have a greyscale one for f units?

Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb 17 year old train sim repainter, autocad 2002 3d modeler

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Yes I have the F7A and The F3A and E7A all in greyscale....Rick

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can you please post an f7a in greyscale? would appreciate it very much.
Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb 17 year old train sim repainter, autocad 2002 3d modeler

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LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-02 AT 09:22 AM (EDT)

Bill,As far as the darkened versus the lighter colored loco scheme, I like the darkened better but you can make the body color dark and lighten the stripe to a brighter color that would give more contrast to the model and make it look better.Also try using a stripe that is only color and no shading to see how that looks it may give a more vivid contrast between the two colors.Experiment with options and see what you like best. Remember you are your worst critic (most of the time) and you are the one you should please with the repaint...others will like it if you like it.
Rick

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Great stuff Rick.......those are exactly the things that I thought were wrong with Bill's reskins.......no detail mostly.....but you did a much better job of explaining it to him then I ever could.......which is why I didn't respond until you did.....Your method is the method I use and I am glad to see that I am doing it the correct way.......
As for Bill, I will give him an a plus for effort and concern.....at least he is trying to get it right which is more than I can say for some others......so hang in there Bill and use Rick's techniques..you will be amazed at the results......and then all these people out here will get off your back.......and you will have some great looking engines.......The most important thing to remember is that the train is not a solid sheet of plastic.....there is a tremendous amount of detail and shadow in it.....and you need to emphasize it, of course you are sometimes limited by the designer but for the most part that isn't a problem......And good luck and hope to see your next attempt....but don't give up....it will come to you.....
Thanks again Rick, I am sure everyone learned something from your short tutorial.....it was right on with regards to Bill's model....
Keep up the fine work you do.........I have all your reskins and hope to see more soon.....Tim
Appalachia RR

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Nice tutorial Rick. Shows why you repaints are so good. BTW Do you EVER SLEEP. the new amtrak special looks good. Thanks for the great work. Keep it up
Chris
Love MSTS
TA Rocks
TA, Please Do 611 & 1218
Wanting 4005 Big Boy , GS4, 1522, ETC.

Big Boy

611

A Y6

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LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-02 AT 10:05 PM (EDT)

wow Tim! somebody that has ALL my stuff?!
are you wanting the texas western locos and cars?(passenger train)
curious, how many different appalachia rr loco liveries do you have? i can recall at least 10 different ones. Apparently you were like the Pennsy; could never settle for just one rr livery on thier locos!

Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb 17 year old train sim repainter, autocad 2002 3d modeler

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Bill, Bill, Bill, you didn't read my last post closely, apparently! I said to Rick that I had all of his reskins, not yours......Actually, I don't have any of yours yet, but doesn't mean that I won't in the future once you apply Rick's tuturial help.....And no, I don't have ten different liveries of my Appalachia RR engines......I only have 6 or 7 engines as of this time and there are only two different liveries.....there are variations of the liveries based upon the type of engine that I have skinned but that is due to several factors, one, an upgrade to a new livery, which most railroads do and have done for years.....went from solid maroon to maroon and white........also the type of engine can allow or disallow stripes due to configuration and appearance.......ie. stripes on an RS3 just wouldn't make it.....If you check you will find many many railroads running many many different liveries depending upon numerous factors.......but the main livery for ARR is and will continue to be maroon and white, with variations depending upon the engine........
Bill, you need to read messages more carefully (as I do too) and not jump right to the forum to reply without thinking about what you are saying or in getting the facts straight........
I know you are eager to be accepted here, but you need to learn to control your enthusiasm.......People here are willing to help you here, including myself, I do understand exuberance but you need to control your emotions and just take your time and not stir up more controversy........
I am old enough to be your grandfather, please take this grandfatherly advice......Calm down, do your reskins, ask others for advice, apply that advice, share your work with everyone and get their opinions, don't take negative replies to your work as a personal attack and just keep working at it........but most of all Bill, don't post until you have a good reason to post......no one cares if you have 5 or 5000 posts........as long as the post is relevant and accurate.......PS but you can't call me gramps Keep working at it Bill, you have the talent to do excellent skins......just apply it.....
Tim
Appalachia RR

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eee ,errr, uhhhhh, whoops!

Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb 17 year old train sim repainter, autocad 2002 3d modeler

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