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seern (211 posts)
May-16-02, 08:20 AM (EDT) "Path end position" I am playing around with the activities editor just to see what happens with various senerios using KHP. I noticed yesterday that the location of the path end can cause problems with the path in question. It seems that if the path end point is within 2 blocks of where the train on that path encounters a red signal then the red won't ever change back to green. Just moving the end point past the next signal location allows the train to get a green once the path is clear. Further strange things with the editor.Sharon Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Path end position and some tips... lnghairedwizard May-16-02 1 RE: Path end position and some tips... bewdley May-16-02 2 RE: Path end position and some tips... lnghairedwizard May-16-02 3 RE: Path end position and some tips... rgarber May-16-02 4 RE: Path end position and some tips... lnghairedwizard May-16-02 5 RE: Path end position and some tips... autonerd May-16-02 6 RE: Path end position and some tips... lnghairedwizard May-17-02 7 RE: Path end position and some tips... seern May-17-02 8 RE: Path end position and some tips... lnghairedwizard May-17-02 9

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lnghairedwizard (844 posts)
May-16-02, 09:05 AM (EDT) 1. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" Hmmmm, thanks for that info....I never noticed that before. I seen plenty of weird activity when making activities so I will keep this in mind if on of mine has such symptoms! As a tip in return...when I want to place a train to appear to be doing switching chores as your player train passes by..... I usually start the "Eye candy" train (as I call it!) about a minute before the player train comes within viewing distance. THe next thing I do is to use a lot of reversing points to keep the "eye candy" train visible as long as possible due to the unpredictability of any one given player (this also gives the impression of actual "switching" with the reversing). Problem is when this "meet" is supposed to occur well into the activity, then it becomes difficult to predict the timing....(it kinda sucks to have a train off to the sid switching then have it disappear right in front of the player as it reaches its end point.) A simple solution,however, is to place the last "reversing point" very close to a switch which will stall that switching train for an indefinite period of time ....therefore, if you have an unusually slow player,.... the "eye candy" switcher job will still be there when the player arrives and will negate the possibility of a AI "disappearing act"!!!!BTW....Seern, ....I tried your 1955 activity for the KHP and found it to be quite excellent & enjoyed myself playing it!!!....Lets hear it for more prototypical activities!!!
Longhairedwizard Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
bewdley (44 posts)
May-16-02, 09:31 AM (EDT) 2. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" That's a good tip. Another little trick to keep in mind is that with the right location and under the right circumstances you can use a building as camouflage for where the train would normally appear and/or get wiped off the map. With careful timing you can repeat the appearance of the train (have two or more instances of the same service) so that you give plenty of leeway for the player to arrive and depart the scene, and still be able to see some activity. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
lnghairedwizard (844 posts)
May-16-02, 10:16 AM (EDT) 3. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" Yes, I've done a bit of both actually.....A good example is Rich Garbers O&WV route.
If you start a player train at Zanesville,... you will eventually pass the Steelmill branch which passes at a 90 degree angle to the mainline...what I do is start an AI path just out of view from one side to the other......then you can have the same AI train pass over several times every few minutes, but from the players point of view..they just happened to catch the branchline train no matter if their ahead of schedule or way behind.As far as sidings disappearing behind buildings....this is a great way to simulate actual switching manuvers....when the player train is passing through an area with a slow speed limit...one can have the AI train backing into a siding (with the end already behind a building where it is assumedly dropping or picking up a car(s), then have it pull back out after assumedly having made it's drop or pickup.) If you set the AI trains "player performance" very low such as 20-30% as opposed to its usual 75%, then You can usually get a realist slow speed!!!Maybe next post we can share secrets for getting AI trains to pass the player train from behind on a single track main....I have done this on Rich Garber's East metro route, but it required several magic spells and a couple of voodoo dolls that beared Rich Garbers resemblance...LOLLonghairedwizard Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rgarber (1651 posts)
May-16-02, 11:23 AM (EDT) 4. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" "but it required several magic spells and a couple of voodoo dolls that beared Rich Garbers resemblance..."Is that why I keep getting these pains in my neck? RG Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
lnghairedwizard (844 posts)
May-16-02, 11:37 AM (EDT) 5. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" Actually, I put the pins in the ah , well....posterior........since your so "anal" with these improvements and upgrades....LOLBill Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
autonerd (28 posts)
May-16-02, 02:39 PM (EDT) 6. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" >the
>"eye candy" switcher job will
>still be there when the
>player arrives and will negate
>the possibility of a AI
>"disappearing act"!!!! I got round this thanks to your help with waiting points - in my case I have an AI train patiently waiting at a siding for the player to pass by. I noticed that "disappearing act" right away (man do I hate that!) so I set the start point and end point way far away from the meet point. Then again, I am dealing with through passenger activities so that makes a difference.Also, I have tried placing static consists as "eye candy", such as locomotives sitting at a depot. It ads some interest but I don;t have to deal with making an AI train work. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
lnghairedwizard (844 posts)
May-17-02, 00:02 AM (EDT) 7. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" RE: "I noticed that "disappearing act" right away (man do I hate that!) so I set the start point and end point way far away from the meet point"Sounds like your doing it the way I used to....I had always assumed that the more AI trains "active" over the route at one time then the bigger the framerate hit!!!....this is NOT SO!!!!I used to shedule my AI trains to start a few miles before the meet and the end point a few miles after...this way there is usually only 1 AI active on the route at any given time. Problem is that the further into the activity, the greater the chance for AI trains to "Appear" or Disappear right in front of the player!!! this may also cause some meets to never even happen if the timing gets too far off!The correct answer here is to use One path for all the Opposing traffic (usually,...but there can be exceptions to this). Then you just schedule the first AI train well before the start time of the player service and scedule each AI train in 10-20 minute increments (this is a matter of taste and trial & error). The fact that there will be several AI trains over the route simultaneously will NOT affect framerates or performance as I first thought.....Only an AI train that comes within the player's "frame of reference" will have to be "drawn" or rendered by the graphics engine so the existence of the other AI trains (the arent drawn yet) take up very little resourcesThis technique makes activity writing a hell of a lot easier In my opinion. all you have to do for a good mainline-run type activity is to set your player path, set the Opposing AI path and schedule all the AI services in increments. You can then run your VCR playback to see how things work out. you may find that you need to space your AI services in larger increments of time to avoid "stalemates" or you may have say.....traffic1 at 12:00, Traffic2 at 12:10 but traffic 3 at 12:35....etc (to get the kind of "meets" you desire!)You will still have other AI paths to define for AI trains that diverge off the beaten path,...or for "Eye-candy" trains....AI Passenger trains, in particular, may have to diverge to reach a station!!...this can be very advantageous as you can be passed by a passenger AI and then YOU pass IT later as its on a separate siding waiting at a station.... Of course, now I'm digressing back to the AI train passing the player train on a generally One track main (such as the East metro).If you wish to see how this can be arranged,...try my East metro Hot-metal train activity for Rich Garbers East metro route. Open the activity up in the AE and run the VCR playback and you'll see what I mean!!!The secret seems to be to have a faster, longer train coming from behind and when you get to a siding that is shorter than the passing trains consist, then you will get a red and the other train will pass you from behind......you may have to wait a bit longer than usual but the effect is great!!! Unfortuanately, there seems to be a lot of senseless little "rules" you need to follow to get this to work such as where to start & end paths.....Ai paths crossing each other can throw this effect off...if fact I have a chessie activity for the east metro that I'm releasing soon that features 2 occurences of being passed from behind but inexplicably, its giving me problems even though no changes have been made.Man, I hate it! when some works smoothly in the VCR playback but fails when you test the activitiy in the sim.Longhairedwizard Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
seern (211 posts)
May-17-02, 00:29 AM (EDT) 8. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" I keep saying that we need a wizard close by when designing activities. Mybe a Longhairedwizard will fill the bill.Sharon Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
lnghairedwizard (844 posts)
May-17-02, 02:18 AM (EDT) 9. "RE: Path end position and some tips on "Eye candy" for custom activities!!!" I dunno....with the eccentricities of msts and the activity editor & the AI dispatcher.....I may have to change my name to Baldwizard after I get through ripping all my hair out!!!..LOLLHW Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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