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"STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU"

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CPR_Malice_96th (77 posts)
Jul-31-01, 02:44 PM (EST) "STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Hey all, This message is for all you guys creating activities out there. I am begging you please to STOP putting units / freight cars etc that DID NOT SHIP with the sim into activities....I have posted this elsewhere before. BUT I will now post it here. HERE ARE SOME REASONS
#1. If we all dont have the unit or freight cars installed on our PC that you are using in your activity...WE CAN'T LOAD IT......Therefore your activity (as good as it may be) HAS JUST BECOME USELESS!!#2. To be honest the first thing most of us do when we get an Activity that we can use ( Cause we have all the downloaded pre-requisits ) Is well, we change them to what we wanna see in the sim.....eg Activity "Train#178" created by the NEC Track Team comes with all default equipment and is a GREAT activity, but the first thing I did was changed the player drivable consist
to my own GO_Transit consist I created for all of you. Its nothing against the consist that came with it, just using my stuff is nicer.#3 All of these people downloading your activities if you REALLY must include that "Conrail GP-38" for example that you love SO much....Keep in mind out of the 2000+ people that may downoad this activity you created, only MAYBE 30% of the people are gonna have that unit. SO the remaining 70% either go look for that unit to install so they can play you're activity ( which by the way is a pain in th ASS unless you have nothing better to do) which leads me to my next point.#4. If you REALLY REALLY have to include that unit that only 30% of the MSTS train simulator population has installed on their PC.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell us where you got it so we can download it.#5. NOW some of you not only add new loco's to activities, BUT then you like to edit all your file extension names that came with that new loco.......NOW SERIOUSLY PEOPLE, there is only a small percent of us who are comfortable enough to go into these files and change everything around without causing the sim to crash when we load it..
Anyhow I myself have no problems changing things // I dont have problems downloading stuff needed, as I have cable & 2 huge Hard Drive's // I may not want your consists cause I can edit them out right away if need be // BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO CANT
Just a thought,
Keep up the GREAT activities otherwise!Tim Kent
CPR_Malice
Winnipeg, CanadaPS... By no means is this whining or crying.......Just keepin my eyes out for the newbies & people who aren't able to edit stuff Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... tomkrist Jul-31-01 1 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... bleuzzmann Jul-31-01 2 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... deejay1020 Jul-31-01 3 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... Nightstar2001 Jul-31-01 4 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... tulsarailfan Jul-31-01 7 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... scand Aug-01-01 13 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... snoopi9 Jul-31-01 5 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... tcatania Jul-31-01 6 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... biggg1fan Aug-01-01 11 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... scand Aug-01-01 14 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... adamw Aug-01-01 8 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... CPR_Malice_96th Aug-01-01 9 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... sniper297 Aug-01-01 10 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... Denny Aug-01-01 12 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... PeeWeeAce Aug-04-01 15 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... KingJPW Aug-04-01 16 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... wheelow Aug-06-01 17 RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'... scand Aug-06-01 18

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tomkrist (22 posts)
Jul-31-01, 03:11 PM (EST) 1. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" In other words:1) Are you a beginner users, then read in the documentation if
you need any addon(you can read the documentation before downloading at train-sim.com). If you need it, then DONT download it. Easy as that.2) If you are a advanced users, then download everything. The activitys that are on the net, that need add-on is the best activity you can find for the msts! If you get any problem, then go to the message area in train-sim.com. Here you will
find most of the answers to the problems that can happen.My experience is that addon activities is very very neccassary to MSTS. If there is no add on, and no activity that uses thoose then what is the point to make a new loc or a new car? Traveling with explore have no realistic means. What i think we need is a beginners guide for adding trains, activity, routes and so. It is the designers who are responsibel that we include a good documentation for the users. If everyone does that, then there should be no problem.
Tom Kristoffersen
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bleuzzmann (201 posts)
Jul-31-01, 03:11 PM (EST) 2. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Yes! I'll second this!
Everytime someone uses non-default cars (and doesn't say anything about it) it SCREWS up the works. Sometimes even going BACK and adding the cars after the unpacking FAILS to resolve the problems caused. Keep to using default cars/trains, we'll change the consists.IF you decide you're going to use non-default rolling stock....then you might consider as a courtesy INCLUDING them with your zip file.I've had 3 installs/uninstalls myself (and a fourth coming). Train database file is now screwed, so I know its a matter of time. bill

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deejay1020 (6 posts)
Jul-31-01, 05:25 PM (EST) 3. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Well...I guess I won't be uploading the 10 activities I have created over the last several weeks of various freight runs on the Pass and the NEC. All of the activities use more than one, sometimes up to 10, add-on locomotive or rollingstock. Nah, I'll probably end up uploading them anyway and let the USER decide if he/she wants to go ahead and unpack and entertain themselves with the activity. If people aren't going to read the docs first before they start unpacking activities they'll quickly learn that they'll need to. I'd rather make an activity as realistic as we can get at the moment, rather than have consists in a region where they just should not be. I go out of my way to include detailed instructions on what needs to be done in order for this activity to function properly and I expect the same, at least in part, when it finally comes to all of you downloading and installing it. I've only released one activity thus far (AVSIM) since getting MSTS and I just couldn't believe the e-mail I received from users who could have answered their own questions had they simply read the docs or the briefings thoroughly. To tell you the truth, I've gotten a bit tired of the default rollingstock, locomotives included, and I've gone to pretty much using the add-on rollingstock, and perhaps just a few default cars. It takes you deeper into that feeling of almost being there and not in your office at home which is what I like to think most of us do this for anyhow. And that is usually what the user wants. Let it be up to them whether or not they want to try out the activity and to download any new necessary add-on that is needed for the activity, rather than start setting guidelines on what we can create. That will quickly take all of the fun out of it for everyone. If there is to be a guideline for these activities, let it be a note in the description of the file (in the library) that warns the user that single/multiple downloads are required (usually there now) and that he/she must have an understanding of how to install those necessary files as per requirements. That should warn off any person out there that does not know how to accomplish that as of yet. If you read this far, thanks for staying with me and expect a whole rack of new activities either this weekend or early next week. And for all of the developers out there, keep up the great work. I've having a lot of fun keeping up with you all!! ;)Regards,
Dan Zollner Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Nightstar2001 (22 posts)
Jul-31-01, 05:32 PM (EST) 4. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" I agree. Let people choice gezz. And maybe if you feel like it in the discription just say that this activity uses add on stock cause myself I would prefer to use the stock I download cause isn't that the point of having add on stock. To use it in add on activities etc. Maybe I'm wrong about the stock maybe its just made to look nice. But oh well.Andrew Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tulsarailfan (16 posts)
Jul-31-01, 10:18 PM (EST) 7. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Well, all of the activities I've uploaded contain non-stock locomotives. In fact I'm the author of one of the activities that requires that dreaded Conrail GP-38.I looked at activity design from a different angle I guess. I thought one reason to design an activity, was to enable people to use the engines and cars that these great people on this site are continually developing! I agree that one approach would be to distribute only default equipment and let the users edit the consists with the activity editor. Then again if they were this comfortable with the activity editor, why did they want my activity??Many people (I think from what I read in the General forum and from emails I receive from those who have downloaded my activities) download activities exactly so they can use some of this add on equipment without simply doing the 'sandbox' mode, i.e. explore a route.I wrote an Empire Builder activity that uses a driveable AMD103 and all the authentic cars, thanks to other contributors of this fantastic rolling stock. What good would that be with a dash 9 and all sightseer lounges? I DO agree with two of the main points though: the file description should clearly state when non-default equipment is needed, so those who don't want to deal with that don't have to waste the bandwidth to download the activity. Also, I agree that the readme that comes with the activities should clearly state where to get the add on equipment, how and where to install it, and what to name the folders, etc. I do all this in the documentation I distribute w/ my activities.A wish list item for MSTS: I really wish instead of all the shared consists, paths, services etc. folders that each activity would reside in it's own folder and hold all the related conists for that activity. Also I wish you could 'pack' the locomotives w/ the activity packager so users could easily unpack EVERYTHING they need to enjoy an activity.My .02. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
scand (54 posts)
Aug-01-01, 08:14 PM (EST) 13. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" The trick to this is to print out the readme file and read it BEFORE unpacking the Activity. If addons are necessary check your trainset and see if you have the exact locomotive in exact wording and punctuation. If not, check trainsim and see if it's there. If not, up to you what you do. As long as you did not unpack it, there will be no problem with MSTS. For example, Holliday 142 WASH- PHL requests a download of GP 38 and the 9576 switcher. Is it the standatd GP 38? Also there is no Switcher # 9576 but a switcher 9578 on trains sim. The information is too vague and it ist not going to be UNPACKED on my PC until further information is received. By being certain of the activity before unpacking, a lot of problems will be prevented.
My .02 worth.Alex Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
snoopi9 (8 posts)
Jul-31-01, 06:17 PM (EST) 5. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" I agree 100% with you Kent. Unless there is some very unusual car/wagon to be used (like a wrecker), then why not make the activity using the original stock cars. If you really want to use a different car, please include the car requirements attached to your program. It is a real pain to take the time to download the activity and discover in the notes that it requires xyz cars, or, to see a great activity, where you want to use your own cars, but are required to download special cars, and, as you said, have to then go 'hunt' for them, somewhere out in never-never land.
Please, we enjoy you taking the time, but if you take that little tiny, EXTRA time to add the 'special' car, it will make our lives a little easier.
MSTS has enough frustrations because of the bugs in the trackwork that just a slight addition to your activity programs would make it that much easier for all the rest of us.
Thanks for your time. Have a good one. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tcatania (27 posts)
Jul-31-01, 10:17 PM (EST) 6. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" If you must use non-standard stock, please, please, not only the filename and where to get it but also the folder name you used. I just d/l two NEC activities. Both require Conrail GP38. One wanted it in the CON_GP38 folder. The other one needed the CONRAIL_GP38 folder. The eng was cr_gp38 and of course I had the engine required but I placed it in the cr_gp38 folder, the same folder name as the eng file.
I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe the stock providers should strongly suggest a folder name so that everyone is on the same page. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
biggg1fan (14 posts)
Aug-01-01, 12:14 PM (EST) 11. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" >If you must use non-standard stock, please, please, not only the
>filename and where to get it but also the folder name you used. I just d/l two NEC activities. Both require Conrail GP38. One wanted it in the CON_GP38 folder.
>The other one needed the CONRAIL_GP38 folder.Guilty as charged. First time out, I wasn't sure what to do about folder names. I screwed up when I installed the conrail gp-38 on my machine, because the folder name *WAS* in the zip file. Activity designers should get together and figure out what to do about standardizing folder names for equipment. If the designers include the folder names in the zip files, use them.Also, if you are designing an activity and use the wrong folder name, you're stuck with it. I even tried to correct my error and the activity editor just kept crashing. It was a pain, so I gave up trying to use the cr_gp38.Is it worth the investment in time to go back and re-make these consists in the activity after a clean install? I'm going to be doing more scenarios in the NEC, and until the rumors of BNSF buying out NS turn true, it just looks wrong to have the BNSF on the NEC. I'd rather (especially with the CR Geep) try to adhere to a de-facto standard.I'm open to input, especially from those of you who have holiday #142.Derek Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
scand (54 posts)
Aug-01-01, 08:18 PM (EST) 14. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Derek,
I just posted a reply up a "a couple of notches" on this topic.
You may find it of interest. BTW, did you figure out 142 yet?Alex
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adamw (43 posts)
Aug-01-01, 04:47 AM (EST) 8. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" I too absolutely agree with Tom. I've downloaded the AMD 103 and when I wish to drive it, I obtain an error message like this:
Unable to read file amd103.eng. I'm already tired of those add-ons which are someway buggy in their .eng files.
As about the Train #178 activity; it could be outstanding if only I have a Cray Supercomputer, since on my P4-1500 with GeForce 3 and Windows ME, I obtain a "slide show" performance of 24 FPS in the cab and sometimes barely 8-15 in outside view.
Maybe there is a way to tweak it a little.Adam Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPR_Malice_96th (77 posts)
Aug-01-01, 10:07 AM (EST) 9. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Thats odd,Becuse on my AMD Athalon 1.4 / 256MB RAM / GeForce 2 with ALL the sliders on max, my FPS NEVER drops below 20....Just ran the whole thing last night to find out....This is using mainly Cabviews and Headout views....I am also using the GO_F7 and coaches I created to replace the default on this activity & generally when you use add on equipment with the files being nearly double the size....IT RUNS SLOWER....So maybe
I've just got a really well configured PC....Anyhow....Train178 although yes a little hard on the proccessor is still a GREAT activity.Tim Kent
CPR_Malice
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sniper297 (134 posts)
Aug-01-01, 10:35 AM (EST) 10. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Second. Oops, sorry, somebody already seconded, i'll take the fifth. Seriously, I thank you for the post, and add this: I created and uploaded a route a few days ago, and included two simple activities so the newbies would have a starting point without having to play with the editor - I wanted something that, in the model railroad parlance, was "ready to run". Being a switching route I started to use the SW 1200 switcher as the default engine, and the same thing occured to me that not everyone would have the switchers, so I changed it to the Geep, which is not as realistic, but anyone who wants can change it to a challenger if they have one. But then, after I posted it (haven't seen it in the library yet, I dunno how long it takes nels to do these things cuz this is my first time) it occured to me that I should have mentioned IN THE DESCRIPTION that is shown on the website I should have mentioned that it requires COMBOREF or ALL_OBJECTS.REF and all the objects from all the routes, plus a lot of disk space after everything is copied in. Word of warning, if you see the port ogden and northern, the zip is small, but it gets really big, and being my first effort it don't include any automation for the copying (working on that now) so it requires that you be comfortable with explorer and paths and stuff. So, when you share anything that requires anything special, it would be wise to mention it in the file description. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Denny (127 posts)
Aug-01-01, 04:54 PM (EST) 12. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" As a budding activity designer and burnt activity downloader, I thought i'd toss my 2 cents into the matter of equipment.
I agree with tim's comments regarding the designer's use of non-default equipment without providing that equipment as an add-along, so to speak.
If I had only wished to create activities for my own use then I would use all sorts of non-default equipment to enhance the activity for my own enjoyment. But when i decide to post an activity for sharing with other users, then I must consider them.
Perhaps the best activities are those that just require a trouble-free unpack and then jump right into the activity. the user of course would have the freedom to use change any equipment or skins that they wished to. Part of this debate lies in the limitations of the activity builder itself.
In the case of the activity "Train#178" that i designed, after having so many unpacking glitches trying to use add others activities, i knew the most important thing was to use default equipment, cosists and renamed files. and let the user know that. I didnt realize what a frame-rate hog i had created. it's difficult while running in the cab and seeing this "empty" track ahead of you not to want to throw in "just a few" oncomings or a "couple of" static consists. what i didnt do was to "compute and save" before packaging the activity. i just did that with my copy and i wish i could mention here that it increased the frame rate. it didnt.
so, to end this, i have to say that if i were to include any non-default equipment i probably would include that equipment either in the zipped file with the activity or as separate zips so the user wouldnt have to run all over the web to use the activity.
and i also agree that we designers should give all the pertinent info that we can in "designer notes" as part of the zip even saying what skins and equipment we had envisioned during creation.
Denny
NEC Track Team Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
PeeWeeAce (5 posts)
Aug-04-01, 10:20 AM (EST) 15. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" I have had to reinstall MSTS three times because of incorrect info in the download file or lack of info. If you design an activity that requires addon stock, at least make more than one activity so our program isn't loaded with material that is only used once. There have been errors in some of these activities that were discovered after they were posted. That means a re-install to get rid of the bad files. Let's not get so carried away with different cars and engines until the method is better perfected. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
KingJPW (235 posts)
Aug-04-01, 02:48 PM (EST) 16. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" Wow! Just look at the anarchy and frustration that MS has created for us. Let's just all calm down and realize that ACTIVITIES WERE NOT MADE TO BE SHARED! Sad but true...KingJPW Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wheelow (7 posts)
Aug-06-01, 09:59 PM (EST) 17. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" >Wow! Just look at the anarchy
>and frustration that MS has
>created for us. Let's just
>all calm down and realize
>that ACTIVITIES WERE NOT MADE
>TO BE SHARED! Sad but
>true...
>
>KingJPW Haha, no kidding. It's a hassle enough making one myself. I'm not all about making one, then uploading it, and screwing someone else's life up with a mistake I made. Not worth it. Addon's are good to be shared, but I have to take KingJPW's side on the activities.Laters.
-Josh
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scand (54 posts)
Aug-06-01, 10:23 PM (EST) 18. "RE: STOP DOING THIS PLEASE.......I'M BEGGING OF YOU" I agree wit all the above. I want to add one more thing try not to require BETA version of rolling stock and POWER. It is bad enough dowloading a completed unit rather than mess around with.eng, s.s .sd files and end up making a mistake and screwing up the system.It takes time for everyone to get the hang of the editor and by doing a little at a time we will finally master the system.
Also, before uploading try out route/activity etc. on your system to get the bugs out of it and leave the forums to help "mechanical engineers" assist designers. It will be apprevciated by all!Alex
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