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tomkrist (23 posts)
Jul-31-01, 08:27 AM (EST) "Couple broken problems" I am designing a activity at Marias Pass. At a point i get
a couple broken problems, it is between essex and Marias. I dont remember exactly the locations, it has a milepost and there is two signals. When i drive to the second signals(i am driving from Whitefish and to the shelby directions), even in a very small speed, i get the couple broken. I can also see that the loc(two loc used) are bouncing suddenly, but if i slow the speed, this doesnt happen, however, the couple problems is there still, no matter what i do.How do i get rid of this problem? I have beein testing this activity for about 30 hours now(i have had others error that i had to correct), and then i got this very very irritating problem. When it is ready it will be a very good activity, so please , help me out of this one, so that i can release it soon.Tom Kristoffersen.tommym31@frisurf.no Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Couple broken problems CPR_Malice_96th Jul-31-01 1 RE: Couple broken problems CPR_Malice_96th Jul-31-01 2 RE: Couple broken problems flarrfan Jul-31-01 3 RE: Couple broken problems CPR_Malice_96th Jul-31-01 4 RE: Couple broken problems tomkrist Jul-31-01 5 RE: Couple broken problems flarrfan Jul-31-01 6 RE: Couple broken problems tomkrist Aug-01-01 7 RE: Couple broken problems djaquay Aug-01-01 8 RE: Couple broken problems tomkrist Aug-01-01 9 RE: Couple broken problems Norton Sep-03-01 10 RE: Couple broken problems Dokkensound Sep-03-01 11 RE: Couple broken problems Norton Sep-04-01 13 RE: Couple broken problems Norton Sep-16-01 14 RE: Couple broken problems bnsf4794 Sep-03-01 12

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CPR_Malice_96th (174 posts)
Jul-31-01, 12:30 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Couple broken problems" I have a fix for this,BUT Im at work right now and cant send you the file...And when I get home I have band practice....BUT when I get home after all of this in about 10 hours I will help you out..K WAIT, gonna see if I can go find the old forum post and I'll attach the link here..Back in a BitTim Kent
CPR_Malice
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CPR_Malice_96th (174 posts)
Jul-31-01, 12:36 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Couple broken problems" Copy and paste the ENTIRE url listed below..This will bring you to where I explained this to someone before.The second post by me is the one you want ( the bigger one )Good LuckTim Kent
CPR_Malice
Winnipeg CanadaAny more probs, leave a post here n I'll get back to ya
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flarrfan (295 posts)
Jul-31-01, 12:45 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Couple broken problems" While this is my preferred way of solving the coupler problems at Cutbank and MP 1152.2, Activity creators need to be aware that many MSTS users do not know about or do not want to go editing eng and wag files. Others claiming a desire for realism have refused to do it. Any activity intended for distribution that goes over the north track east of Cutbank and at 1152.2 is going to have some unhappy unpackers. I have a revised WB Pig Train activity that I regularly send to people who want to know why it's uncoupling east of Cutbank. After politely replying with the coupler bug fix (editing the files), I give them a choice--let me know if you will edit the files or if you want the revised Pig Train using the south track. So far it's unanimous, they all want the revised, they don't want to go editing files.Bottom line--if you plan to distribute a Marias activity to the general community and your path is through Cutbank or 1152.2, USE THE SOUTH TRACK. I've seen no reliable reports of uncoupling problems yet on the south track. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPR_Malice_96th (174 posts)
Jul-31-01, 02:04 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Couple broken problems" Good Point,I never think to tell people that cause my couplers never break..Tim Kent
CPR_Malice
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tomkrist (23 posts)
Jul-31-01, 02:07 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Couple broken problems" When you say south track, do you mean that you always have to make a route from shelby to whitefish...or do you mean the other line(its two there) ? Correct me, but if you mean the last thing,
i have used the line on the left,if you zoom on the maria pass, ...do you mean i should change it to the right one? I have thinked about this if that could help. The only thing is that i have to do all of the testing again, and it takes around 3 and a half hour just to get to that point, but, anything for a good activity,hehe. If so, then i have to change at cutbank to, and every traffic is using the right track there, so i have to make new paths to....boy, but i want to avoid to edit thoose files,as beginners would think more than one to do this.
T.K Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
flarrfan (295 posts)
Jul-31-01, 04:59 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Couple broken problems" Not sure I understand, Tom, but let's talk compass directions rather than left/right.Westbound from Shelby, the normal prototype practice would be to use the north, or right-hand track, and that's the way a prototypical activity would be designed. However, it's the north track with uncoupling bugs at Cutbank and 1152.2. Therefore, any future activities I do for distribution (as opposed to for myself) will always route trains on the south track.And as to testing, you can simply create a new short activity to test any segment of the route. I'm testing right now for manual switch operations between Whitefish and Essex. I create a short-path activity for each segment with switches I want to check. You could do the same thing to check out track segments with uncoupling bugs. No need to have a full-length path if you just want to check out one or two sections of track. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tomkrist (23 posts)
Aug-01-01, 09:48 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Couple broken problems" Hepps...I have to send you a big thanks for helping me out with this problem. I have fixed the track,choiced the right one instead of the left(South track)... then i testet it again, and yes, i had to test it all the way from the start, because when i created a test-activity on the same place, with the same train, and in the same track, the couple broken problem did'nt come. No problem at all. However, i started from scratch and directed the train to the south track, drived it there all the way, in about 3 and a half hour, and woila.....nema problemo amigo
I only have to drive to cutbank now and finish it before releasing it(having saved it,hehe)...This one will last, maybe 5 or 6 hour....and god, belivie me, i WON'T test it again! T.K
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djaquay (50 posts)
Aug-01-01, 10:47 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Couple broken problems" >I only have to drive to cutbank now and finish it
>before releasing it(having saved it,hehe)...This
>one will last, maybe 5 or 6 hour....and god, belivie
>me, i WON'T test it again! Y'know, this brings up an interesting point. You really should be able to test out part of an activity without running the whole thing. I'd like to put together a longish activity like this, too, but 5-6 hours means a whole week of my gaming time.I understand that factors earlier in the activity may cause problems later on, and that can only be prevented by a full run, but is there a way to create parts of the activity and combine them later into a full set? Would that help with some of these types of problems? Of course, as I type this, I'm realizing that that means combining paths, and I doubt that path files are text and/or easily combine-able; guess I'll have to check and see.Along the same lines, I'd also like to write some kind of program to semi-automate activity generation, but the above might make that impossible, too.Any thoughts?
Dave Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tomkrist (23 posts)
Aug-01-01, 11:45 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Couple broken problems" I think the best way of doing this is to make one main activity,with the events included. When testing it, you separete it with different names with different test paths. (Use save as, and save it as part 1, part 2).Place the paths between the different area that you want to pickup/drop cars, and of course, remember how the train is, what cars are on, and what are you going to drop? Could be a little tricky that...hehe...But then you will find out quickly if your reverse-point works or not.When finish, you only have to complete the main path in the main activity.... Why did'nt i think of this before??????The activity i made is supposed to be hard. In the test i have noted times between places, and i will include the timetable in the activity, then you will now if you are to late/early between stages. I will also set a timeevent to complete it, so this one can be quite funny,hehe.
T.K
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Norton (6 posts)
Sep-03-01, 00:11 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Couple broken problems" Does the broken coupler problem apply to AI trains as well as the player train? In other words, do I need to route AI trains on the south track at Cutbank and Marias to avoid ending the activity? Thanks for your help. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Dokkensound (94 posts)
Sep-03-01, 02:21 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Couple broken problems" No the AI trains will stall if underpowered but they don't suffer broken knuckles. I really hope that one of the things in the first patch we get is a better Marias. I won't use the titanium couplers. I don't see the point of fixing one inaccurate thing by creating another. I want my rolling stock to be capable of breaking a coupler if mishandled and I'll work around these problem spots until we get some real routes. Then I'll be spending alot more time running those and won't have to spend hours re modifiying all my rolling stock yet again. I just wish you could run Westbound through Java without the mystery snap. Its single track so theres no way around it at that location.
R. Easterday (DokkenSound)
"But these go to "11""
Spinal Tap Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Norton (6 posts)
Sep-04-01, 06:40 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Couple broken problems" I agree with you on the coupler issue. I was going to reroute around the problems at Cutbank and Marias(mp 1152.2) to get from Shelby to Whitefish, but I didn't know about a problem at Java. If it's single track then I guess I'm screwed. I thought I had run thru Java on one of the factory activities with no problems but I must have been mistaken.Thanks for your help! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Norton (6 posts)
Sep-16-01, 01:23 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Couple broken problems" Have you guys had any problems at Piegan? I have an activity from Shelby to Whitefish. I took your suggestion and set my coupler break at 5.1. I finally made it thru Cutbank. As soon as I went past the crossovers at Piegan, my estimated speed went crazy. Before I could notch back, the activity ended with a broken coupler. I double checked my files to make sure I didn't miss changing the values on any cars, but I'm going to check again. I guess I could set the values higher. Any ideas? Thanks for your help. Norton Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
bnsf4794 (45 posts)
Sep-03-01, 06:05 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Couple broken problems" I've been having the uncoupling problem on a route I made for myself. I set up a small test area so I could study the problem. I haven't figured out how to fix it, but I've figured out where it will happen. Here's what I've discovered so far. 1. In the picture I'm heading eastbound past (not through) a righthand crossover (train was moving from right to left relative to the screenshot). It's on a slight downhill grade. The red lines you see are the bounding boxes as described by a shape's .sd file. Also, for some reason, the track .sd files are referenced from the Global\Shapes folder, and not my route folder. Strange.2. The slower I go, the worse the problem CAN get. Less than 10mph and I can watch a car completely stop for a split second. This jerks the train causing the uncoupling problem.3. Not all cars in the train will jerk. To test this, the train you see is a solid consist of the US2Hopper car. I ran thru this many times, it seems to be random, on one pass some cars will jerk, and on another pass other cars will jerk.4. And now the interesting part. Whenever a car jerks, it happens EACH TIME when the car is HALFWAY over the problem-switch's bounding box. I ran this many times and confirmed it. The picture shows the location of the car a split-second after it jerked. Also the strength of the jerk seems to be random. Sometimes it's just a light nudge, other times it's huge!5. With this in mind, about halfway through a car is its origin point (0,0,0 xyz). Also, since it doesn't always happen, this tells me that there is a value constantly changing that when it changes to just the right number, somehow it interferes or collides with the switch. This would also explain why the train will jerk at differing strengths.6. So what values are changing? Well, you've got the wheel rotation, and also the trucks (or bogies) can move. Then there's the physical coordinates of the car in the world. Under movement this would be constantly changing.That's all I can figure out for now. I had another spot similar to this one, and somehow I fixed it by pulling the switch out and relaying it. I tried that here and no luck. I even pulled the x-over completely out, laid in straight track and it still jerked ever so slightly. I tried every possible change and no luck. I can't see a pattern in this, other than it happens when the car is halfway past the bounding box.John Greenstone
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