Message Areas - "Problem with switches and signals"

Train-Sim.Com Message Areas

"Problem with switches and signals"

Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
Previous Topic | Next Topic Conferences MSTS Activity Design (Protected) Original message
wheelow (7 posts)
Jul-24-01, 11:44 PM (EST) "Problem with switches and signals" Hi everyone. I'm hoping someone out there can help me with this, because it's driving me absolutaly insane now. I'm having a problem with switches, and making them switch when I want. The thing is, they won't do it. I'm trying to make an ongoing activity at Marias Pass. Setting up freight at Whitefish Yard, and setting up actions. I set it up, so I can move cars from one point, to the next. Making a consist for another train to pick up, and take where-ever. If I can actually get the freight moved where I want it to be, I'll remember what cars, and where I put them, then edit the activity, making a new player consist, and setting up new actions, picking those cars up where I left off. That is if I could actually move the cars where I need them to be, because of switches not wanting to be thrown, and signals always being red. If I could only get it like the explore activity, where you can throw any switch, whenever or wherever you want. Can someone please help with this? It would be greatly appreciated.Thanks a million
Josh Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Problem with switches and signa... Hobart Jul-25-01 1 RE: Problem with switches and signa... djaquay Aug-01-01 2 RE: Problem with switches and signa... boxcarbob Aug-01-01 3 RE: Problem with switches and signa... djaquay Aug-01-01 4 RE: Problem with switches and signa... boxcarbob Aug-01-01 5 RE: Problem with switches and signa... djaquay Aug-02-01 6 RE: Problem with switches and signa... SPATE Aug-02-01 7 RE: Problem with switches and signa... djaquay Aug-02-01 8 RE: Problem with switches and signa... wheelow Aug-02-01 9 RE: Problem with switches and signa... flarrfan Aug-03-01 10 RE: Problem with switches and signa... djaquay Aug-03-01 11 RE: Problem with switches and signa... andyz Aug-03-01 12 RE: Problem with switches and signa... wheelow Aug-03-01 13 RE: Problem with switches and signa... Hobart Aug-05-01 14 RE: Problem with switches and signa... wheelow Aug-05-01 15 RE: Problem with switches and signa... boxcarbob Aug-05-01 16 RE: Problem with switches and signa... wheelow Aug-06-01 17 RE: Problem with switches and signa... fhornuk Aug-06-01 18 RE: Problem with switches and signa... snoopi9 Aug-06-01 19 RE: Problem with switches and signa... fhornuk Aug-06-01 20 RE: Problem with switches and signa... wheelow Aug-06-01 21 RE: Problem with switches and signa... djaquay Aug-07-01 22

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Messages in this topic
Hobart (10 posts)
Jul-25-01, 11:29 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Hey Josh,
If you want to run your train out on the main line you have
to create a path for the train to follow. Create a starting
point, and follow the green line to where ever you want it to
go. If you want your path to diverge, right click the switch
(green dot) and choose "take other exit". Main line switches won't work without a path but the yard switches should work even with no path. Hope this makes sense.

Regards
Hobart Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djaquay (31 posts)
Aug-01-01, 11:03 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" >Main line switches won't work without a path
>but the yard switches should work even with no path. Hmm, do you mean mainline vs yard, or is manual vs automatic a better description? This is something I ran up against last night, in my first activity creating attempt. Leaving Whitefish yard, I setup a path, and the switches (which I assume being yard switches and mainline crossover switches were a mix of auto & manual) were lined up properly.Then I got to Columbia Falls, and wanted to make a setout at, oh I forget the name of the spur, but the switch off the mainline was manual and trailing point, so I needed to throw it by hand to back into it. The switch into my spur was not manual, though, which makes me think that I need to have a reversing path directed at that spur to get the switch to throw.Is this correct? If I don't want to mess with reversing paths, do I need to avoid auto switches, and use spurs with manual switches only?Dave
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
boxcarbob (5 posts)
Aug-01-01, 01:49 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Dave,You need to know which switches are manual and which are not. Explore the area that you are interested in and examine the switches. The manual throw switches will have a handle next to them, generally on the inside of the curve (opposite of prototype}. You need a general path to guide your activity, but when you encounter a manual switch you engine can go off the path. You will be all right as long as you return to the path sometime in the activity. Try making a path from the diesel shop in Whitefish up the main line, make a reverse point beyond the crossover on the westbound main back into the yard. Make another reverse point in the middle of the yard track the path is on, then back out to the main, another reverse point on the main and back to the diesel shop.Once in the yard you will find you can switch to you hearts content, as long as you have placed some cars on the yard tracks. Then, when you are finished, bring your engine back to the west end of the yard, make sure you are on the path you originally created (you don't have to go to the turning point), the signal should go green, and you can leave the yard, reverse on the main and go back to the shop to tie up. The only problem you may encounter with this, if you go past the governing signal that takes you from the westbound main into the yard and it doesn't give you a proceed indication, then ask for permission to go past the red signal, permission will be granted, but you will be restricted to 15 MPH while in the yard. This is pretty prototypical (SP?) but sometimes inconvenient.Hope that is clear. This is the my first post.Bob Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djaquay (31 posts)
Aug-01-01, 04:48 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" > You need a general path to guide your activity, but when you
> encounter a manual switch you engine can go off the path. You
> will be all right as long as you return to the path sometime
> in the activity.So let's see if I understand what a path is actually used for. A) To set the default state of all switches, manual and automatic; B) to let the sim throw automatic switches for you, i.e. when you hit a reversing point; C) to let the sim know what signals it needs to set for you, i.e. when you're returning after having hit a reversing point.I'm guessing now, but is it correct that for the sim to throw an automatic switch, you must cross a reversing point in front of it?This still leaves the concern with heading into spurs that are behind automatic switches. The path needs to enter into and reverse out of those spurs to have the switch thrown for you, (and the sim won't let you throw them yourself). So do you need to explicitly follow the path in those cases, i.e. do we activity designers need to communicate the need to the user to switch industry A first, then B, then do all the yard work you want to in yard C, or things will go kaflooey on them?Thanks much for the assistance,
Dave
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
boxcarbob (5 posts)
Aug-01-01, 05:13 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" You've got it pretty well figured out now.The path MUST be used to take you into tracks accessed by automatic switches. The path must have a turning point in the track if you want to exit the same way you went in.The Sybex book "Strategies & Secrets for MSTS" has a pretty good explaination. I learned most of what little I do know from the book and from studying this forum. I have found that many of the participants in this forum seem to have an excellent grasp of the Activity Editor and are really good at explaining the ins and outs of building an activity. When I would run into a problem I discovered that by browsing the forum I would learn that I wasn't the first to stumble.Bob Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djaquay (31 posts)
Aug-02-01, 09:28 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Indeed, reading every word of the Activity Editor help file and the past couple months of postings here before starting to play with the editor made it darn near a pleasant experience, and is why I have half the clue I do. (Looks like I should do likewise before getting into the Route Editor, although it means maybe 10 times the reading...)Thanks for the help,
Dave Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SPATE (22 posts)
Aug-02-01, 02:49 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Hello,
I'm new to this, but I wish I understood what what was implied here, do you have a detailed reference regarding paths, signals and switches, particularly regarding their logic ???
Many thanks,
kind regards,
SPATE Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djaquay (31 posts)
Aug-02-01, 03:11 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" That's something I've been looking for as well. So far, I haven't played with true reversing routes, (i.e. Whitefish to Columbia Falls, then back to Whitefish) or with traffic patterns, so I haven't really given the sim dispatcher anything interesting to cope with, (but I've heard he's not too bright).And especially if I ever get into route creation (which I hope to RSN), knowing how the signals work to set them up properly would be very helpful.Dave
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wheelow (7 posts)
Aug-02-01, 09:35 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Hey again everyone. This is Josh again, original poster of this topic. Ok, here's an example of my very wonderful problem. I make an activity, I've been making those from the very first day I've gotten the game about 3 weeks ago. I start from Kalispell, and go toward Columbia Falls. I have only a small consist to take to Columbia Falls. There are two sidings that I'm wanting to drop cars off at. Those sidings are, Columbia Falls Lumber Spur, and Columbia Falls Gas Spur. Ok, here's what happens. I make it to Columbia Falls, and I pass the very first siding before I get to the two I want, which is Columbia Falls Chip Spur, and I check to see if the Chip Spur will switch, it does, no problem, the thing is, the two sidings I want to switch, DON'T. I even have reverse points set up past those two sidings I want to back into. Still won't switch. Every other siding behind those sidings, all the way to Kalispell, will throw. These two, won't. I don't get it. Save me from my insanity, please. Hah. Anyway, if you know what's up, please help. Thanks again.
-Josh Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
flarrfan (191 posts)
Aug-03-01, 05:42 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-01 AT 05:45 AM (EST)Are you sure you're pulling your train far enough to trigger the reverse point? And why don't they have some kind of subtle signal in the sim when you do? Edit--to answer my second question partly, I suppose you could have a pop-up tell you when you've reached a reversing point (perhaps a "that'll do"), but that's not exactly a subtle signal. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djaquay (31 posts)
Aug-03-01, 08:11 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" I've noticed that the f4 window changes direction once you've hit a reversing point; does that meet your requirement for subtle?As far as Josh's original (and 2nd) postings, it still doesn't sound like you're adding reversing paths into the sidings. (Unless I just read it wrong...) You have to reverse your path into both sidings to get that particular switch (and others like it) to line up properly.FWIW, I'm going through the sim cataloging switches as to manual and sim-controlled; hopefully I'll be able to post something by this weekend or so that'll help reduce the hair-pulling and sanity-losing.Dave
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
andyz (1 posts)
Aug-03-01, 10:40 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" After many hours of trial and error testing reversing points, I have discovered the following:1. At the exact time the 1st engine crosses the reversing point (and only then) the switch is checked for occupancy. If any car is still on the switch, it will not be thrown. Therefor the distance between the switch and the reversing point is critical, and must be greater than the entire consist.2. Approaching a reversing point when driving forward, the reversing point will vanish from the F4 track display when the 1st engine passes it. (I dont know if this is true when driving in reverse).I hope this is some help solving your problem.andyz
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wheelow (7 posts)
Aug-03-01, 03:16 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Ok, well, those things should be happening. I've set reverse points into those two sidings, I have the reverse point set, and then I make sure I click, "take other exit", and make the green path line, go into both of those sidings. I've also driven right over the reverse point, and nothing happened, I drove so far over that thing the end of the train probably went past it, still, nothing happened. I think, when Microsoft releases its first MSTS patch, that they should have something that makes every switch in this game manual. Just an idea. Hah, thanks for the help once again. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Hobart (10 posts)
Aug-05-01, 07:58 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Hey,
Just thought I would add another 2 cents worth. When you
create a path, your consist has to point in the direction of
your path otherwise it will not work at all. That's cool about the switches with stands working manually. If I could have read that in the help it would have saved me a lot of grief.regards
Hobart Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wheelow (7 posts)
Aug-05-01, 09:00 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! FINALLY!!!! I finally got it to work. I've finally gotten the reverse points that I've been placing this past week, where they need to be, and to do what they need to do. *Releases torn hair from hand* Thanks for all the help guys. Now maybe I can start having fun with this freaking game. I hope so anyway. I have like, one handful of hair left on my head. I'd kind of like to salvage that. Hah, anyway, thanks guys. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
boxcarbob (5 posts)
Aug-05-01, 11:04 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" You know, I just noticed something while going back over this thread. I think the Chip Spur at Columbia Falls is a hand throw switch. You don't really need to route yourself into that spur and don't need to place a turning point there. I think .... that the only two switches in the Columbia Falls area that are IA Dispatcher contraolled are the oil track and the lumber track.In all other cases, you can go in and out of the spurs controlled by manual switches throw as many times as you want to without any problems.Bob Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wheelow (7 posts)
Aug-06-01, 00:00 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Yeah, those are the two sidings I wanted to go into. I finally got it to actually work though. Very frustrating. Like I was saying, Microsoft should bring out a patch that makes all the switches manual, like in the explore route. I guess that could lead to complications though. Running yourself into oncoming traffic and what not. -Josh Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
fhornuk (6 posts)
Aug-06-01, 02:56 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" I nearly went bald just trying to get the points/switches to change whilecreating a path - the take other exit button would not work!! If this is your problem - click on 'view' then check the 'path points' option. After doing this all the points/switches on your path on the 2d map and can be changed!!Hope this is o some help to some-one, I know it saved my sanity!!Cheers,Bill
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
snoopi9 (8 posts)
Aug-06-01, 05:01 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Unless I missed something, you never told us HOW you fixed them so they would work! Did you move the points, use different reversing, or what? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
fhornuk (6 posts)
Aug-06-01, 06:02 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" I got them to work by setting up paths in the activity editor. I had accidently de-selected the 'path points' in the drop-down view menu in the path editor. Once I'd set up the paths with the reversing points marked (they MUST be put in in the correct sequence or the path wil not work) all the points/switches did what I expected them to do in the activities when I played them.For me it was all about getting the 'take other exit' thingy to work in the route editor. You will know if it is working OK because the points/switches on yor path will be high-lighted in green.I hope (if you can make head or tail out of what I've just written!) this is of some help!!CheersBill Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wheelow (7 posts)
Aug-06-01, 06:42 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" Well, I finally got it to work by doing what everybody suggested. I mean, I did those things, but it still wasn't working like I wanted it too. Ok, let me see if I can explain this without losing anyone, or losing myself. Ok, the first siding I wanted to get into and drop freight off was the Columbia Falls Lumber Spur I believe. So I set up a reverse point just after that siding. Then, by right clicking on the green dot right on the siding, I clicked "take other exit" which would now alow me to reverse into that siding. Then, I placed another reverse point in the siding, so I could get back out onto the mainline, and continue to the next siding. You have to put a reverse point in the siding itself, so you can do the same with the other siding that's up the line. In other words, so the green path line comes back out of the siding and onto the main line, so it won't just stop at the first reverse point you placed. I did the same with the other siding I wanted to get into, which is the Columbia Falls Gas Spur. I placed a reverse point just after it, clicked "take other exit" which made the green path line go into that siding as well, then placed a reverse point in that siding, so the green path line would go back out onto the main line. I then tried it out, praying that it was going to work, and to my amazement, it did. I went over the reverse point, and it disappeared, and I put the reverser into reverse, and the switch that was always not wanting to switch, was positioned for me to back into the siding. I laughed hysterically, because it finally worked. Anyway, I hope I made sense. Thanks for all the help everyone.-Josh Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djaquay (31 posts)
Aug-07-01, 12:22 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Problem with switches and signals" And just for the sake of reference, as I mentioned in another thread, I intend to be posting maps of Marias Pass, screencaptured from the Activity Editor, that show which switches are manual and which are automatic, for the benefit of us poor misfits that are creating switching activities.They should be up tonight or tomorrow morning. Will post a new message once they're up.Dave
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic