FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?

I have read several tutorials and messages in this forum through relevant searches, and found many helpful discussions. Can you clarify a few questions for me? What affects FPS most in an activity:Number of cars on player train?
The loco and car files one chooses to make the player train?Number of cars on AI trains?
The loco and car files one chooses to make the AI train?Number of cars in standing cuts?
The loco and car files one chooses to made the standing cuts?If a particular loco or car file is complex and significantly slows down performance, does it matter if it just appears once, or I have a whole string of them? (in other words, once the complex car file is used does that slow things down whether it shows only once or several times in the activity?)Does it make a difference if the cars or consists are actually in view or not. (Will things improve once the cut or train passes out of the current view, or will it continue to slow the activity's performance?)How can one tell which loco or car files are more complex, and are likely to slow things down if used?I did catch onto the trick of not running AI trains the entire length of the activity route, but beginning and ending them only in windows of viewing opportunity.Appreciate your collective experiences.

Marty
Box Elder County, UT
Home of the Golden Spike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, buzzbenz, Dec-02-03, 03:49 PM, (1) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, msoholt, Dec-02-03, 09:39 PM, (2) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, goonybird, Dec-03-03, 12:56 PM, (3) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, msoholt, Dec-04-03, 00:21 AM, (4) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, heavyd, Dec-05-03, 01:47 AM, (5) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, msoholt, Dec-05-03, 09:14 PM, (6) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, kevarc, Dec-05-03, 10:08 PM, (7) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, msoholt, Dec-05-03, 10:30 PM, (8) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, kevarc, Dec-05-03, 10:42 PM, (9) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, msoholt, Dec-05-03, 11:12 PM, (10) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, goonybird, Dec-08-03, 02:22 PM, (12) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, kevarc, Dec-12-03, 12:45 PM, (20) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, goonybird, Dec-08-03, 01:23 PM, (11) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, kevarc, Dec-08-03, 02:22 PM, (13) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, goonybird, Dec-08-03, 04:02 PM, (14) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, kevarc, Dec-08-03, 04:19 PM, (15) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, goonybird, Dec-08-03, 04:55 PM, (16) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, msoholt, Dec-09-03, 00:02 AM, (17) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, chp56, Dec-12-03, 03:21 AM, (18) RE: FPS rate affected by car files or number of cars?, goonybird, Dec-12-03, 12:39 PM, (19)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Um, all of the above!It is nearly impossible to say which will affect FPS more. A few notes:
- EACH instance of any car or loco will affect the FPS. Even if only one car is used 6 times, that is still 6 cars that the video card has to display and 6 cars worth of physics the CPU has to calculate.
- It DOES make a difference whether cars are in view or not. You can test this yourself by running a string of cars that are quite complex and switching to an external view. You'll see that the FPS increases and decreases as you pan around depending on what is visible.
- A trick with large yards is to help with performance is not to actually fill the yards. Instead, arrange cars in such a way that you cannot tell the yard is mostly empty. Say a long string of cars one or two tracks deep right next to the player train, and a few cars at the very ends of each track. Takes some practice to get the hang of, but you can create impressive illusions that you have a yard full of cars when in reality it's mostly empty!
- The more details a car or loco has, generally the more FPS intense it will be.I tend to use lower-poly stuff in areas that i'll either by zipping by at track speed, or in areas like yards and such where you will still need several cars.Hope that helps somewhat!------ BUZZ ------

-- Power For You --

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Buzz,Yes, it does help greatly. Thank you.Is there a convenient way to compare poly count from one car to another so I can choose the less intensive cars?

Marty
Box Elder County, UT
Home of the Golden Spike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hmm, I can't answer many of your questions above.I have an activity that lasts for 90 minutes wherein 108 AIs appear. The route that it's deployed on yields favourable FPS rates. Sometime later within that very activity, which in itself seemed to never compromise the FPS rate, I placed its very first loose consists, about a dozen in all. These subsequent additions interfered with my FPS rate.For me, this discovery confirmed my guess: loose consists are what appear to be the most remarkable interference that an activity maker can cause to diminish the FPS when driving.I also find that diminishing the number of different types of cars that make up any consist (be it player, traffic, or loose) doesn't bring down the FPS rate as much compared to consists with many different types of cars.Cheers,
goonybird consistshttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Gooneybird,Hmm, that's interesting. How do you have your huge AI traffic pattern pathed? Do you run all trains the entire route, or have them appear then disappear at strategic points just so you can see them when you should be passing them?

Marty
Box Elder County, UT
Home of the Golden Spike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

This is what I have
DELL 8200
P4 1.8
768 MB ram
Geforce 3 200TI 64MBI have been playing this game for a long time, making activities and such. I love to include as much AI traffic as possible and try to have as much "stuff" around in the activity. Through trial and error, (mostly error) this is what I have found works all the time.
1- Never have more than 200 cars or engines in any scene at any time, my system will crash, or won't load.
2- Trains with 5 or less engines seem to be ok, any more and some engines don't have any sound. Also if I have two trains, both with 4 engines, the sound kinda goes funny till they pass.
3- My activities don't load if I have more than 30 AI trains programed.
4- Actual FPS don't start to suffer until trains are more that 50 cars.
5- When AI trains are longer than about 50 cars sometimes they freeze the game when they are loading in, less than 50 cars no problem.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Your list of guidelines is quite handy. Thank you, I'll save and keep this thread when it's done.

Marty
Box Elder County, UT
Home of the Golden Spike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Not really, I have places where I have 3 115 car trains, each with 3 engines without problems.I also have activities with 35-40 AI, it just takes a long time to load. 5+ minutes.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-03 AT 10:32 PM (EST)

Hi Kevin,I was hoping you might jump in on this one.
Whats the easiest way to determine poly count on an individual car or engine file - so I can prioritize what to include in my activity?BTW I've got your activities tutorials at 3D marked. I just found them and will review them shortly. Thanks for all your help to us never-ending new-comers.

Marty
Box Elder County, UT
Home of the Golden Spike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Beats me. I never worry about that, I use what looks good and what I like.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

OK, thanks. I like that philosophy.

Marty
Box Elder County, UT
Home of the Golden Spike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

(Whoa! More than five minutes? Wouldn't this lengthy loading time be more attributable to your route files that in themselves have an abundance of track-database-associated objects, because that's been my experience? Actually, come to think of it! , about half of a minute into activities that have tons of cars for all their AIs, my game freezes for approximate couple of minutes for each one each time. Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

No, it is the amount of AI loaded for the activity. I have checked it with the same activity with various amounts of AI traffic.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>or have them appear then disappear at strategic
>points just so you can see them when you should be passing
>them? msoholt, I follow the second (above-quoted) of your two methodology.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

You can do that, but you need to be extrememly carefull in setting them up like that. Not everyone runs at the same speed or skill. This requires very close attention to timing. Longer paths are much better.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

The only part I disagree with is longer paths being better to any degree. My primary reason for this is from all the stalemate nonsense that can be caused by junction-located signals in either custom or default routes when you play the activity. I've saved myself countless activity-setup distractions by dividing a (e.g.) 150-mile long traffic path into, say, four segments.I don't know if anybody else has said this, but I reckon the activity editor is more of a pain to us than the route editior and all its components are.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Longer paths are better. After setting the player path and running it and setting up a dummy activity using a AI path and running it, you know about where the meets should take place. If a person is a hard chrger, running flat out at the speed limits, opposing AI may spawn in the wrong place leading to a head on. And if a user is a slowpoke, train my dissappear in front of his eyes, which will look bad, but also screw up the signalling.I have done a lot of testing for this as I used to use short paths all the time. But I found that this has little to no effect on computer performance and having the problems as outline above, I quit using them in all but specific cases.What is one of your activities? I'll try it out and see.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Thank you for offering to try out one of my activities. However, it'd be next to impossible to share any of them with anybody because I use custom cars I downloaded, many of which I alter the engine files for improved performance.Shortening the opposing traffic path for my activities greatly improved my FPS rate. My adherence to the critical timing you pointed out earlier as being necessary is what's caused no train to vanish before me. I also set up the ends and starts of AI paths such that they never share the same signal block and that the AIs never straddle a junction when being either spawned or terminated.I find it interesting and amusing learning the vastly different ways that we simmers pursue to get things done or to meet our needs!Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Indeed, I'm beginning to appreciate that there are few hard and fast rules which work for everyone - but the guidelines both of you have suggested have shed a great deal of light on my experiences so far. Appreciate the cautions both of you have suggested.Thanks,

Marty
Box Elder County, UT
Home of the Golden Spike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

The one thing that affects my frames more than anything is when I'm facing a yard or area with a lot of track...I remember a small route I downloaded, I think it was all on just one tile, with very mountainous terrain. I couldn't understand why my fps would take a serious dive when I was facing a certain mountain range, until I looked around it and saw a lot of track in a concentrated area...
I didn't even have to SEE it for it to slow everything down, without another train anywhere on the route!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yeah, it seems that an abundance of track-database associated objects, terrain, and transfers also each have a play in draining the FPS.Cheers,
goonybirdhttp://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Bayou/4804/ a fictitious network serving London, Weymouth, and points in between

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.