Probably a stupid question… ready?

Is there any way to get a list of the default rolling strock that shipped with MSTS so that, when I build an activity and wish to specify what, if any, non-default rolling stock I'm using, I can refer to that list? And does that make any sense whatever?Thanks

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RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, kevarc, Jun-26-03, 12:49 PM, (1) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, tomwhite56, Jun-26-03, 07:50 PM, (2) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, Bing, Jun-26-03, 08:04 PM, (3) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, sniper297, Jun-26-03, 08:51 PM, (4) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, robertreedy, Jun-26-03, 09:49 PM, (5) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, tomwhite56, Jun-26-03, 10:10 PM, (6) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, kevarc, Jun-26-03, 10:36 PM, (7) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, Bing, Jun-27-03, 03:33 AM, (8) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, Patfitz, Jun-27-03, 10:01 AM, (9) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, Bing, Jun-27-03, 11:00 AM, (10) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, Paul1953, Jun-28-03, 05:29 PM, (15) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, kevarc, Jun-27-03, 11:28 AM, (11) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, tomwhite56, Jun-27-03, 03:19 PM, (12) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, sniper297, Jun-28-03, 03:01 AM, (13) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, Bing, Jun-28-03, 10:04 AM, (14) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, sniper297, Jun-28-03, 11:31 PM, (16) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, rdawes, Jun-29-03, 11:57 AM, (17) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, heffed, Jul-01-03, 05:08 AM, (18) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, Bing, Jul-01-03, 11:03 AM, (19) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, kevarc, Jul-01-03, 11:08 AM, (20) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, tomwhite56, Jul-01-03, 06:17 PM, (21) RE: Probably a stupid question...ready?, obo, Jul-01-03, 07:02 PM, (22)

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Other than doing a clean install, no.
But you can add a name line to the wag\eng file and put default in the line so that you would know.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Lone Wolf Activities Forum on www.3DTrains.com

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Well, let me ask you this. Assuming that none of the consists in the default activities have been altered (as we've been warned sternly not to do) does ConBuilder give you lists of the consists in each Activity? Would that be a way of getting that info, or does ConBuilder only report a problem?Tom

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Here's what I would do: Go through the Trainset folder, looking for files with the May 7, 2001 date. These are bound to belong to the orignal - default - equipment. You can set Windows search function to list only files of that date. Add the updated sd40-2 and Class 50 to the list and you should have it. If you have modified the .eng or .wag files, the other files - .ace,s. and .sd should still be May 7, 2001. That is, if you have winXP and it decided it would be nice and install ALL the default items. The last two reinstalls on WinXP, MSTs did not install all the cars. The Class 50 "additional content" exe required three tries before XP would execute properly. Why? Only the Shadow knows. And he ain't talking. Bing

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"Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of MSTS?"I got a method, I made a folder in Microsoft Games, named it \Backup. Inside that folder I created two more, \MyTrains and \TheirTrains. After doing a clean install, I copied the entire \Trains folder from \Train Simulator to \Backup\TheirTrains. Then I went hog wild and added custom downloads everywhere. Before I start to create an activity, I copy the \Train Simulator\Trains folder to \Backup\MyTrains, then delete the \Train Simulator\Trains folder. Next I copy the \Backup\TheirTrains\Trains folder, paste it into \Train Simulator, and when I open the activity editor there's nothing in there that isn't on everyone else's disk. After the activity is packaged, copying \Backup\MyTrains\Trains back into \Train Simulator restores all my goodies until the next time.I know it sounds complicated, but it really only takes a few minutes of copying files, and it guarantees I won't make a goof like I did with PO&N 3.1, including an activity that called for a doublehead 2-6-6-2 logging engine as a loose consist.

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>Is there any way to get a list of the default rolling strock
>that shipped with MSTS so that, when I build an activity and
>wish to specify what, if any, non-default rolling stock I'm
>using, I can refer to that list? And does that make any
>sense whatever? This probably won't help much, but it is a listing of all the default consists (not names of rolling stock) and the default folder names (once again, not the individual names). Also, this includes the 1.2 updateRobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.comConsist\yard_one_player_consist.con
Consist\1xus2carre2.con
Consist\2 x class 50, 12 carriages.con
Consist\2 x class 50, 8 carriages.con
Consist\2 x dash 9, 20 intermodal.con
Consist\2 x gp38-2.con
Consist\2 x kiha 31.con
Consist\2000std.con
Consist\2d937oil.con
Consist\2d950chm.con
Consist\3 x SD40-2, 50 mixed.con
Consist\30000exe.con
Consist\310.con
Consist\380.con
Consist\380eng+tender.con
Consist\4 grain, 3 hopper.con
Consist\4xk140s.con
Consist\5 refrigerator.con
Consist\6 cement.con
Consist\acela.con
Consist\acelahhp-8stndrd.con
Consist\acelastd.con
Consist\ai310.con
Consist\aihservice2.con
Consist\airoscot.con
Consist\aisecape.con
Consist\Autocar.CON
Consist\barcarch.con
Consist\barcarso.con
Consist\caboose.con
Consist\class 50, 8 carriages.con
Consist\class50.con
Consist\d9.con
Consist\d930gran.con
Consist\d937oil.CON
Consist\d950chem.con
Consist\d9gds.con
Consist\d9imod.con
Consist\D9Oil.CON
Consist\d9r.con
Consist\d9rev.con
Consist\Dash 9 - 40 cars (mixed goods).CON
Consist\dash 9 - 50 cars (mixed goods).con
Consist\dash 9 with 23 chemicars1.con
Consist\dash 9 with 50 chemicars.con
Consist\Dash 9, 2 x SD40-2, 35 grain.con
Consist\dash9 x2 with 20 autocar.con
Consist\dash9.con
Consist\dash9_single.con
Consist\dash921gran.con
Consist\dlesson1.con
Consist\flying scotsman8.con
Consist\fsloco.con
Consist\genesis.con
Consist\gp38.con
Consist\gp38-2 lumber.con
Consist\gp38-2, 3 boxcars.con
Consist\gp38-2, 5 hopper cars 1 box.con
Consist\GP8-2, 17 Cars.CON
Consist\hhl lone.con
Consist\hhploco.con
Consist\hotbox.con
Consist\innsa2.con
Consist\InnSASU.CON
Consist\isaburo .con
Consist\ITRDash9.CON
Consist\kalwhtfshloc1.con
Consist\kalwhtfshloc2.con
Consist\kalwhtfshloc3.con
Consist\kiha 31x4.con
Consist\kiha140.con
Consist\kiha31.con
Consist\kiha31a.con
Consist\local_one.con
Consist\local_one_consist1.con
Consist\local_one_logconsist.con
Consist\local_one_oilconsist.con
Consist\local_one_playerconsist.con
Consist\local_one_singlecar.con
Consist\local_one_traffic_consist.con
Consist\local_one_trafficconsist1.con
Consist\local_two_consist1.con
Consist\local_two_consist2.con
Consist\LongWest.CON
Consist\metroliner.con
Consist\mxdgoods.con
Consist\nnmxdgds.con
Consist\oeloco.con
Consist\oenoloco.con
Consist\oeroyal.con
Consist\oestrd.con
Consist\pendennis.con
Consist\playtest_forpickup.con
Consist\Playtest_Mixed.CON
Consist\PnDnPass.CON
Consist\royalscottsclass.con
Consist\royalsct.con
Consist\sainnwn.con
Consist\sainnwn2.con
Consist\scotsman.con
Consist\scotsmandurable.con
Consist\scotsmanspeedrec.con
Consist\sd40.con
Consist\SD40-2, 2 gon, 1 cab .con
Consist\SD40-2, Dash 9, 25 mixed.con
Consist\SD40-2, Dash 9, 30 mixed.con
Consist\SD40-2.con
Consist\series7000.con
Consist\sprbowl.con
Consist\whtfshydswcars1.con
Consist\whtfshydswcars11.con
Consist\whtfshydswcars2.con
Consist\whtfshydswcars5.con
Consist\whtfshydswcars6.con
Consist\whtfshydswcars7.con
Consist\yard_one_aiconsist1.con
Consist\yard_one_chemcars.con
Consist\yard_one_consist1.con
Consist\yard_one_consist2.con
Consist\yard_one_consist3.con
Consist\yard_one_consist4.con
Consist\yard_one_consist5.con
Consist\yard_one_consist6.con
Consist\yard_one_eloggingcars.con
Consist\yard_one_loggingcars.con
Consist\1xboxcar.con
Consist\yard_one_siding5_consist.con
Consist\yard_one_siding7_consist.con
Consist\yard_one_singlecar.con
Consist\yard_one_traffic1.con
Consist\yard_one_traffic2.con
Consist\yard_one_trafficconsist.con
Consist\yard_two_consist1.con
Consist\yard_two_consist2.con
Consist\yard_two_consist3.con
Consist\yard_two_consist4.con
Consist\yard_two_consist5.con
Consist\yard_two_consist6.con
Consist\yard_two_consist7.conListing of foldersTrainset\SERIES7000
Trainset\310
Trainset\380
Trainset\ACELA
Trainset\CLASS50
Trainset\DASH9
Trainset\DEFAULT
Trainset\GENESIS
Trainset\GP38
Trainset\HHP
Trainset\KIHA140
Trainset\KIHA31
Trainset\METROLINER
Trainset\MK1CARRIAGES
Trainset\PENDENNIS
Trainset\ROYALSCOTSCLASS
Trainset\SCOTSMAN
Trainset\SD40
Trainset\SD402
Trainset\SERIES2000
Trainset\30000
Trainset\US2BNSFCAR
Trainset\US2CABOOSE
Trainset\US2CHEMICAR
Trainset\US2DBLEHGTFRGHTBL
Trainset\US2DBLEHGTFRGHTRD
Trainset\US2EMPLOGGERCAR
Trainset\US2FCARRE2
Trainset\US2FCARRF2
Trainset\US2FCARYE2
Trainset\US2FCARYF2
Trainset\US2FREIGHT6
Trainset\US2FREIGHT7
Trainset\US2FREIGHT8
Trainset\US2FREIGHTCAR1
Trainset\US2FREIGHTCAR3
Trainset\US2FREIGHTCAR4
Trainset\US2FREIGHTCAR5
Trainset\US2FREIGHTCARYEL1
Trainset\US2FREIGHTCEMENT
Trainset\US2FREIGHTREFRIGE
Trainset\US2FULLLOGGERCAR
Trainset\US2GRAINCAR
Trainset\US2HOPPERCAR
Trainset\US2WOODCHIPPER

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Well, this all looks like good info, and that long long list is an excellent resource. You guys are very helpful and I really appreciate it. The reason this comes up is that the Newark and New Jersey route uses a LOT of non-default stock, which is fine, but there's no indication of what it needs until you get into trying to use the route and its activities. And my idea is that if I'm going to write an activity for a non-default route, or a default route with non-default stock, I'm going to have a readme with it that will warn the user in advance what they're going to need. Common courtesy, you know?Thanks a lot for all your help, folksTom

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-03 AT 10:49 PM (EDT)

Teemu has the required list in there somewhere. I hadit installed at one time and saw the list. Let me dig around and see if I still have it handy.
48-40pk2.zip 48ft tankers 40-in-1 pack
cnjcoa11.zip CNJ coaches
cnj-tm.zip CNJ H-24-66 #2401
eastbx1.zip East coast 40ft box car pack1
ec40ftp2.zip East coast 40ft box car pack2
el40ftbs.zip EL 40ft box car pack
us2ftx.zip 50 Foot Box Cars Pack 2
elflats2.zip Erie Lackawanna Flat Cars (with loads)
gon14in1.zip Gondolas With Various Loads
hbseqp.zip HBS equipment (contains the box cabs and two cars)
lv305.zip LV GP18 #305
pcgp9.zip Penn Central GP9 #7048
coilgon5.zip Coil loaded gondolas
pcsw1500.zip PenKevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Lone Wolf Activities Forum on www.3DTrains.com

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You want some real fun, try some of the activities from UKTS. I am currently working my way through a download of 14 loco files, plus 18 wagon files. All for one activity.One of the loco files has an incorrect ID number, meaning a manual search (I found it) and three of the important wagon files no longer exist. They have apparently been replaced by similar files, same tank car types and owners, undoubtedly the .con files for these traffic trains is going to be a lot of fun.Why bother? It got to be a challenge. To make it even more fun, most of the locos have the old extraneous zero in the enginecontroller line, many of them have brakes which don't work, one loco had a max output ten times what it should be meaning at 2% power it goes to 120mph. That's not all, but its a start, indeed it is. Oh ... most of the sound files don't work, either.Well, its probably an old activity, right? It was published March 10, 2003. Three months. I doubt the tank car files ever existed in the UKTS file library under the names shown in the ReadMe.Those British blokes really know how to have fun. Not complaining, not really. I am going to get that activity to run. Bing

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Sounds like a case of the "Royal Screw" to me. Activities in the download section should have caution notes (non-default equipment, payware, etc. required) in the initial descriptions. This would save a lot of people lots of time and frustration. Or better yet, the activity developers work out distribution deals with the creators of the non-default stock, etc., and include it with the activity. Personally, I think that should be an upload requirement for MSTS activities...well, at least the "caution notes" part, for sure. I'm working with some creators right now regarding a distribution deal for the engines/cars used in one of the activities I'm developing. When the activity is released for download, the zip file will include all engine, car, consist, and traffic pattern files to successfully run the activity (immediately after download)...no need for people to scour the web for every little piece. The consumers will thank me.Good luck in getting all that stuff to work!

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I've been beating the drum for some time , trying to encourage activity developers to package non-default equipment they are requiring with their activity. Bob Siederer has done a wonderful job of this with the release of MP31. As a result, we are able to run the activities at our leisure. If we don't have the time right now to install and check all of the 42 "authored" inclusions we can go back any time. The activity will not be "outmoded" because a required equipment file is no longer available. Said it before, will say it again: No one I have seen has done a better job of packaging a freeware add-on for MSTS. I don't think anyone on either side of the pond is deliberately trying to make their activity unplayable. I see this happening with other entertainment apps, particularly in the wargame department. There are people who enjoy making their scenario so difficult no one in their right mind would have anything to do with it. I've seen lots of them. I have beta tested a few of these. Sometimes the designer accepted the criticism, changing the scenario to make it usable for ordinary mortals. Usually that wasn't the case, they were getting a kick out of snowing the unsuspecting player, it is the way they get their jollies. We don't see much of that in MSTS, occasionally I come across a "gotcha". I simply close the activity, delete it and move on to something else.I don't feel it is a "screw job", rather I believe the designers are incredibly sloppy. Not fixing the extra point-zero on the enginecontroller line cannot be acceptable so long after the date of the original release. How could anyone let a max output ten times normal slip by? Sometimes I think it is brought on by the acknowledged male personality characteristic of "I can wee-wee higher on the tree than you can ..." - they don't care what is inside the file, they want to show their trainsimmer buddies they can post a Class Whatchamacallit locomotive same as the other guy.I'll get the equiopment to run. Heck, I gutted a Alphaline DMU to convert it to a hydrualic transmission and full three-range braking system. This other stuff just takes time. I like the FUDE route quite a lot; to me it is worth the trouble to revise the .eng, cabview and sound files.What really gets me, though, is it has become pretty much standard practice for the Britishers to include a line in their loco or car file: Once installed, do not delete this piece of equiopment from MSTS. Why not? Blotches and bains, an invasion of toads, my hair falls out? Why wouldn't I check consists via ConBuilder to see it I had forgotten a .con file containing a reference to the deleted item? We're all supposed to be uninformed? Everyone except them, that is. I think its funny, not offensive. Where they get the ideas is beyond me. Bing

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Your suggestion is a good one. However , my server has a limit on the size of the files that I can upload, so that effectively scuppered that idea. Had to go back to listing the required downloads, but I am trying to limit these as well. I want to give the user enough leeway to change the consists from MSTS default to whatever more closely matches their own situation. In other words while I might have an act centered around one of the excellent shortlines here, my personal preference for Class1 RRs with trackage rights can/will run counter to someone elses' preferences for the same route. I might run UP on the FBL, and you might prefer the Santa Fe. Paul

" I hear my train a-comin'"
Jimi Hendrix

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-03 AT 11:29 AM (EDT)

As far a a deal with skinners to include them in my activity packs. No. If you look at my activity packs(NOTE: they are at www.3dtrains.com , forums, Lone Wolf Activities forum), I have a core download of about 25-30 cars & packs. If you install one of my packs and want to get another, check your trainset folder and see just what you need. Most of the time it is engines and maybe a car pack or two. The only thing you need to check for my car packs is the date on them, as from time to time I go through and update them and have the old ones removed. And yes, I use payware. I use Dekosoft engines and I have a beta for the CGW that uses Marc's CNW GP's. I do state that they require payware. But I try not to use payware in loose consists so that if a person wants they can swap out engines for those they have.The problem with including then with each and every activity would be the duplication of files in each activity DL and the size of the DL. Also if you start renaming folder, a person could end up with 5 copies of the same thing.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Lone Wolf Activities Forum on www.3DTrains.com

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Well, my plan was not really to include the stock itself, but a list of the stock. But let's take it a step further. Let's say I do include the stock, and then I include a stock list, with reference to where the stock can be found, and a suggestion for using ConBuilder or RouteRiter, whichever they prefer (I think RouteRiter does a splendid job). I think that's all a reasonable set of steps for an activity designer to take. That puts all the tools that are necessary for the user in the user's hands. The reason for this is I've been on the user's side of the fence, the other night, trying to locate this stock for the Newark line activities. And I got a fairly good headache trying to get those activities to run. Why? Partially because of ignorance on my part: not having enough information up front and not knowing how to get it. Following these posts I have all the info I need. So my thought is, the substance of these posts -- this little learning experience I've generated here, the responses of all you good people -- should be there, up front, when the newbie (and with over a year of MSTS using under my belt I still consider myself a newbie, only now venturing into the area of activity design and fortget making a route!) downloads an activity that sounds cool that he'd like to try on the route he just got installed.
But at the least -- the LEAST -- you should never get train database errors on the first startup of a newly installed route. That's just my opinion, of course, but I believe it firmly. No one should have to spend an hour or two in the file library just to get the route to run.Okay, I've spouted off. Now I have to go home and find out what I did wrong on the Brill Yard setout...Thanks guys. You're all great.

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" Not fixing the extra point-zero on the enginecontroller line cannot be acceptable so long after the date of the original release." Hee-hee, I dunno if you guys noticed, but the GP38 in the 1.1 patch had the fuel filler port changed, and that was it. It's been two years since the sim came out, and KUJU never bothered to fix their own extra point zero in the .eng file that so many of the people who never got the word are basing their engines on. I kinda wonder how many people STILL don't know, and are driving geeps around wondering why it's so hard to get into notch 1. I think most of the add on steamers started with the Scotsman as the basis, I suspect that's why the independent brake don't work on steamers. Most fun one I've seen is Columbus loco works, I think it was, put out a GP30 which was then cloned for GP7s and GP9s, so there's a few dozen GP7/9/30.eng files in the file library calling for GP30eng.sms and GP30cab.sms, which aren't included in the zip files. If you know what you're doing you can hack the .eng file to change to alias the GP38, but why would someone upload a reskin that's not gonna work out of the box? Simple answer, they never tested the installation on a clean default MSTS install.I've been skinning, hacking, fixing and compacting Alco RS2s and 0-8-0 switchers, and putting together an activity pack that includes the RS2s, the 0-8-0s, two PO&N cabeese, and all the rest default stock with 11 player Alco activities and 11 player 0-8-0 activities, both with mixed Alco - steam AI traffic. Just the engines and cabeese and activity files bulks it all up to 9 megs, so I'm probably gonna have to consider seperate zips for the 56k dialuppers. I want to include custom painted cars too, but 9 megs already?

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I sometimes wonder if the people who upload their creations even bother to look at the files: I found two more, these are "wagon" uploads where ConBuilder test returns an error for the shape file specified in the .sd file = not present. The "designer" forgot to put the ".s" extension on the shape file statement. My guess is, he didn't bother to check his work, not even on the most basic level. Nobody yet has said they have enough time, or the desire, to be the resident QC person, so this sort of thing will go on indefinitely. I can't imagine an inexperienced user trying to cope with the kind of problems I see every day. Not esoteric technical stuff, just plain, basic errors. Nobody seems to care. If they do, they have a funny way of showing it.Each route developer will have to make up their mind about how they want to approach non-default equipment for their included activities. Bob Siederer was admittedly working with an established route, also a number of the "authored" activities had been around a year or more. Bob did a terrific job, I can't say enough on this point. A separate upload package would be fine with me, and I suppose most users. File size might be a problem, but that is true of a lot of the files currently in the library. If a user is going to get all five, or six sections of a particular route, there is going to be a lot of download time involved. Those who don't have cable or DSL are at a disadvantage; I remember what it was like with my dialup. Download managers help with dialup is about all we can say. If I did not have cable I would still play MSTS, it wouldn't be as satisfying because I would be passing on some important downloads.I don't think it necessarily HAS to be a package of downloads. A list of required files which is up to date might do the trick. But, per above, even three months makes a difference in available downloads: You are good to go for perhaps a couple weeks before the download library gets changed around. What does that do for the new user? What does it do to the designer who hoped a lot of people would enjoy the add-on. As I see it, the real problem is not making such a list it is keeping it current. If XYA.zip is changed to JKL.zip, there are two areas of potential difficulty. First, the person coming new to the add-on needs that info. Second, will the replacement even WORK with the add-on? Or will wholesale substitutions in consists be necessary?We are always going to have these problems with available - or not available - equipment which is required to run an add-on. I wish there were a forum section with developers info posted, per the Route Description section - it could go there if need be. The REAL problem is getting the develper to care enough abut his add-on to keep the list of required items current. Jim Ward, Bob Siederer, Kevin and a few others will do this. They are, from what I see, in the minority.MSTS is becoming the kind of sim where the person with limited time is unable to cope. Are we shutting out too many new trainsimmers because of the above?Bing

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"care enough about his add-on to keep the list of required items current."I don't know why you included me in that category, the reason I used nothing but default trainsets in my activities is cuz I'm too lazy to even generate a required list, let alone keep it current! Seriously, I agree with you, having someone to volunteer for file library QC checker would be nice. At the present, the files are scanned for viruses and checked to see if they extract (some people will even upload zips that fail the CRC checksum cuz they didn't bother to even check the extraction to see if it works!). That's it, they really don't have time to test the installation and see if it works. I used to download routes and test to see if they worked when installed according to the readme, and also looked for simple ways that the packaging efficiency could be improved so it didn't hog unneccessary bandwidth. One guy uploaded a route with install instructions that didn't work, so rather than fixing it he uploaded a different route that included something like 140 megabytes of default KUJU files that could have been copied with EZstuff.bat. Apparently this guy was allergic to batch files or something, I even wrote a customized version of EZstuff that worked for the first route, and offered to help him repackage both routes. Like most people he just ignored me, so I pretty much gave up. Fortunately Mike Simpson came along with Route Riter and made route packaging a no-brainer, so we don't see as many horrible ones as we used to. There are still inefficiencies, custom add-on objects made by amatuers with TSM or whatever, with uncompressible textures five times as large as they need to be, and extended shape data for buses and garbage cans that requires the exact same ace file in all the seasonal subfolders. I haven't even tried to download the newest mega route to look, I think one file is something like 230 megabytes.Anyway, that's where I'm at with this Alco/steam pack, trying to include everything so people don't have to hunt for other files to download, and yet keep it to a reasonable size. So what's a reasonable size? I dunno, guess I oughtta post a
POLL QUESTION!

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I'm against packaging stock files with activities. Don't forget that there are some of us without access to broadband service and to download these big files would take days. Plus you might be copying things you already have. I like being able to look through the files list and deciding if I want to download the required stock or substitute something else which I already have.Just a good stock list is all I require!

Bob Dawes

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Just look on your install disks. I believe all the rolling stock is on disk 1.-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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"Like most people he just ignored me ...." - now I feel better, always thought I was the only one being ignored. Hey, if you REALLY want to be ignored, post to the UKTS forum. If they don't know you - "Did yer Mither come from Cardifffff?" - they won't give you the time of day. They don't blast you, the way an American would. They just pretend you don't exist. You know the way the guys here pick up on the newbie - you see the number of posts is "1" or maybe "2" or "3"? Most of us greet the newcomer, welcome him or her to our chummy little group, and do our best to make them feel at home. We do the same on the Steel panthers forum. Forget it over there. They think they are special. Appears they believe they are superior to outsiders. Now, if it were Prince Charles snubbing me, I could understand - though I would bet dollars to doughnuts he would not be that way. Prince Charles, I would also bet, was brought up NOT to snub people.To know the difference.Boy, I sure feel better. Am not the only "Man With the Silver Bullets".Bing

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Bing, I do not seem to have that problem over there. I found they are about the same as here.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Lone Wolf Activities Forum on www.3DTrains.com

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Bing, it's really not good to hold all this inside. You should really stop holding back and tell us how you really feel!LOL!Tom

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>"Like most people he just ignored me ...." - now I feel
>better, always thought I was the only one being ignored.
>Hey, if you REALLY want to be ignored, post to the UKTS
>forum. If they don't know you - "Did yer Mither come from
>Cardifffff?" - they won't give you the time of day. They
>don't blast you, the way an American would. They just
>pretend you don't exist. With all due respect, Bing, I think that perhaps you're reading a bit too much into your experience at UKTS. Keep in mind that it's a much smaller community than the one here, so the chances of not getting a response are correspondingly much higher. Also, IMO, they have too many forums there, which further reduces the traffic by spreading it out.That said, I do read the main forum at UKTS regularly and I haven't noticed any problem with newbies being left out in the cold. Not looking to argue or anything, but I think they're a decent bunch over there and I think calling them unfriendly is an unfair generalization.Rob.

Obo's MSTS Locomotive Catalog: http://msts.banal.net

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