Meets, passing sidings, the wailing & knashing of teeth

LAST EDITED ON Jun-15-03 AT 11:42 PM (EDT)

The frustration is mounting. I've done a bunch of searching here, and found alot of info' on passing sidings, optional paths, etc., but I still haven't made them work (seems like I'm not alone at least ). However, I want to see if someone can give me enough guidance to get something to work.
I'm trying to arrange a meet on single track stretch with several sidings available for the event to occur. I want a chance that the player train will have to wait for the AI train, but not required. My player train is westbound, the AI eastbound. I've timed the layout that I know the earliest to expect the player to be at a particular siding (no work - just running by). I'm trying to start the AI so it arrives about 5 minutes after the player arrives at that siding. I've read lots of stuff, but one thread had stated there need to be minimum three signals between the two trains when the AI is spawned, and I made sure of that. I start the AI 3 sidings away on the siding, and have it's path take all the sidings on it's way. In addition the AI path continues for three more sidings past where I hope the meet will happen so that a later arriving player will encounter it at a previous siding. It's path takes it into that final siding where it dies.
In my present arrangement the AI won't move until the player train passes it, defeating what I'm trying to arrange. What bugs me the most is that there are two open sidings between the AI and the player with the timing I'm using, but the AI won't move. At speed these sidings are at 5+ minute intervals , so testing it by driving I only lose a 1/4 - 1/2 hour of my life each pass. I also use the VCR (I know!!?) as well because I've found it matches the sim's performance for what I've been testing. All afternoon I've been trying all kinds of stuff, clicking passing sidings, option paths, starting the AI on the main, starting the AI in a siding, etc., with no success. One time at least I got the player train to a red on the main, the ai approached and stopped, I backed, the ai moved passed (and you're thinking success?? ...NOPE), but I never could get a green to proceed. Permission denied. This was when I started the AI on the single track about a mile away from the siding and it's path was through the siding. It seemed that if there were no siding available the AI knew it had to move, but other things I tried blew that theory.
I know what I'm trying to do is doable, but I haven't caught on as to how to make it happen. Anybody able to shed some light on this for me?Lyle

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RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, kevarc, Jun-15-03, 11:39 PM, (1) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, slyone, Jun-15-03, 11:45 PM, (2) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, kevarc, Jun-15-03, 11:55 PM, (3) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, slyone, Jun-16-03, 00:37 AM, (4) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, kevarc, Jun-16-03, 09:17 AM, (5) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, slyone, Jun-16-03, 01:43 PM, (6) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, Coonskin, Jun-17-03, 04:10 PM, (7) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, slyone, Jun-17-03, 06:29 PM, (8) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, MasterChief, Jun-20-03, 04:07 PM, (9) RE: meets, passing sidings, the wailing and knashing of, kevarc, Jun-20-03, 04:21 PM, (10)

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-15-03 AT 11:40 PM (EDT)

What route?Edit
For a passing path to work correctly, both the player path and the AI path MUST be on the same track, be it the main or the siding.Kevin Arceneaux
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Lone Wolf Activities Forum on www.3DTrains.com

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The route is the Chicago Great Western. And yep, I've learned for the passing stuff to work they need to be scheduled for the same track. I've deliberatley scheduled the AI paths through the sidings, not trying to use the passing options (in my present testing that is)

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There are many strange things that happen like this. The best bet to try is move the start point futher away. Note: The start point is where the rear of the train is, not the engines. Except for a loose consist. Kevin Arceneaux
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Lone Wolf Activities Forum on www.3DTrains.com

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the AI start, Player start, or both? Right now the ai start is about 8-10 miles away from the target siding. However, for testing the player is about only about 3 miles away, but while eventually be 50+ miles for the completed activity. That's why I'm trying to build in some slop as to where the meet occurs. I seem to recall some remarks in the MANY things I read about the relative positions of starts and stops of AI vs. player potentially being a factor, any thoughts or experience on that?Lyle

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It is really hard to start the player in the middle. You need to start from where the activity sill start and work your way through the activity. What you are doing is really spinning your wheels. When you move the start point back and if there is earlier AI traffic, all your work will be for naught.The only way do get a good handle is set the activity up with no AI traffic. Run the activity, keeping track of you time. Then start slowly adding AI traffic, esp if you are trying to set up specific meets. Or if it really doesn't matter where the meet are, throw it in all at once and then run it.Have you run the route, a straight shot to get an overall time. This helps in planning when to start AI traffic. Sometimes I set up mini paths for AI traffic, but only when the signalling dictates it. I prefer to have the AI run the route from the other end and overall running time for AI and player will be close. Then you can plan you ai traffic from the start.Kevin Arceneaux
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Lone Wolf Activities Forum on www.3DTrains.com

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>Have you run the route, a straight shot to get an overall
>time. This helps in planning when to start AI traffic.
>Sometimes I set up mini paths for AI traffic, but only when
>the signalling dictates it. I prefer to have the AI run the
>route from the other end and overall running time for AI and
>player will be close. Then you can plan you ai traffic from
>the start. That's how I've been building this activity. I instinctively did it this way before reading any of the posts here recommending the same procedure. I've ran it full length several times logging arrival times at towns and yards, then started to put in AI traffic. However, up until the last stumper, I've been in double track territory or the AI ran over track the player path didn't use and things have worked fine. After my posts of last night, I tried a different variation that seems to have worked for the test scenario, I'm now getting set to run the test version in the cab and, if succesful, the full length version. This meet is 3 hrs into the run, no fast forward button available. LOL One thing was still weird tho'. I started the AI on the main with no sidings available before it reached the target siding. I started the player well back with two sidings open. Depending on relative start times, the player train would stop in the 1st 'hole' even if the AI hadn't arrived at it's 1st hole (the player's 2nd). There was a small window in which this would happen. If the player was 2 minutes earlier, or two minutes later in arriving at the 1st hole, it proceeded to the 2nd hole for the meet. (this was all in VCR mode). This prog' is going to be the death of me.Lyle

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Lyle:Kev speaks words of wisdom. No easy way. In my naievette, I was going to "whip out" an activity chocked full of action in "an evening or two" and upload it for the troops to enjoy. One week and a half later I said "enough" and uploaded the activity, but without as many AI trains as I had orignally envisioned.Worm Watching is great fun... but trying to figure out the AI is like trying to understand women. Also, long activities are a nightmare to test. ANY change to the activity, regardless of how minute, will require completely starting over again when testing in the sim. This too, jump up and bit me in the hiney. I now better understand why many activities are only 1 to 1 1/2 hours in duration.Have fun!Andre Ming

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....you've figgered out women??!!! ...oops, nebber mindI hope I can remember what I was doing with the activity, as of a day and a half ago I had a CRASH that took the fat table down. I'll eventually be rewriting the activity, but not for a few days when I install a different operating system. And did I take my own advice about frequent backups?? .. NO For this activity I've got written data as to where specials were at, but I hadn't gotten to this last one to know if it worked other than in the VCR. What dissapoints me the most (other than this WinME piece of ****) is 'me' for not having backed up ANY of the train sim mods I've done in the couple of months since I found this site. I had any easy way of doing too. I have most of the stuff I d'loaded on CD's, but none of the edits. All bounding box fixes, common sounds, physics changes, etc., are gone. I had two repaints that were nearly complete, also totally gone. I kept putting off the backup of MSTS because I was still fixing stuff, only wanted to save to CD when completed. I'm only relating these events as I suspect most here understand my pain. I had no idea how meaningful the original title of this question (wailing & knashing of teeth) would become LOL Lyle

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Kevin,In working on this very issue in an activity I'm creating, I had set the path of the player on the siding and the AI on the main, then installed passing points. It doesn't work very well - I get standoffs. THEN I read this thread. Now, I can't remove the passing points to change the player path to the main also. Is there a way to do this, short of removing the start point and starting all over?Thanks,MC

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You can go to a switch BEFORE the first passing path and use it to ryn to a dead end. That works, sometimes. Other than that no, you have to redo the path. Remove passing points and reverse points choices in the right click menu were not coded.Kevin Arceneaux
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