Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded

Sorry its so late. I've been at it for 3 months. The testing was brutal. The activity is not just an adaptation, but a whole rework.
New challenges, including electrical and traction motor failures are possible if the player abuses the engines. There are now four major challenges enroute, besides the difficulties of a heavy train. I was finally forced to conclude, as many others have pointed out, that the original schedual was much too generous to those of you that play a mean throttle. Very well. The new one should pull most of you back into line. (heh-heh) A helper engine was introduced in one area, after holding the Engine Foreman at gunpoint --but it won't make it any easier, see?! I'll be around for any reprisals or condemnation.
Hope its fun.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, May-20-03, 08:38 PM, (1) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-23-03, 01:27 AM, (2) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-23-03, 03:30 PM, (3) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-23-03, 07:09 PM, (4) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-24-03, 02:02 AM, (5) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-24-03, 03:23 PM, (6) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-24-03, 03:42 PM, (7) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-24-03, 04:10 PM, (8) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-24-03, 05:29 PM, (9) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-25-03, 00:28 AM, (10) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-25-03, 02:27 AM, (11) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-25-03, 03:35 PM, (12) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-26-03, 02:44 AM, (13) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-26-03, 12:11 PM, (14) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, lnghairedwizard, May-26-03, 12:55 PM, (15) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-26-03, 03:03 PM, (16) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-26-03, 04:40 PM, (17) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-26-03, 05:04 PM, (18) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, May-27-03, 05:55 AM, (19) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, aeroflot, May-27-03, 08:05 AM, (20) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, May-27-03, 09:53 AM, (21) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-27-03, 01:30 PM, (22) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, May-27-03, 02:13 PM, (23) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-27-03, 05:15 PM, (24) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, aeroflot, May-27-03, 05:36 PM, (25) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-27-03, 08:13 PM, (26) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, May-28-03, 10:45 AM, (30) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-28-03, 01:31 PM, (31) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, May-28-03, 01:47 PM, (32) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, TrueNorth, May-28-03, 02:30 PM, (33) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, May-28-03, 04:03 PM, (34) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, MasterChief, May-27-03, 08:26 PM, (27) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-27-03, 11:50 PM, (28) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, MasterChief, May-28-03, 01:03 AM, (29) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-30-03, 00:21 AM, (35) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, MasterChief, May-30-03, 00:52 AM, (36) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-30-03, 01:33 PM, (38) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, aeroflot, May-30-03, 07:05 PM, (39) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-30-03, 08:13 PM, (41) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, aeroflot, May-31-03, 10:08 AM, (42) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, May-30-03, 08:00 AM, (37) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, May-30-03, 07:58 PM, (40) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, johnan, Jun-04-03, 04:13 PM, (43) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker for MP3.1 Uploaded, yardlimit, Jun-04-03, 08:59 PM, (44)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

sounds like fun. I guess I'll be headed to the file libary.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Yard...Tried going thru your procedure & everything seemed AOK as I was able to test the activity using the the Editor. That was until I tried to start the sim. One error I received & got around was, that the activity was looking for the ta_nkp car in the global & Maris31 shapes folder. So I copied the ace to textures & s,sd files to shapes. That worked but got me to another error...(Can't add car US240FTB to world & then the UID count just builds up to the usual train-sim crash.Can't figure this one out. Found the ace file for this car in one of my directories & copied that to my world & Marias31 texure dirs, but no-go.Any suggestions?
Thx in adavance Rick...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-23-03 AT 03:41 PM (EDT)

The two files likely contributing to this problem are:US240ftb_np1 and US240ftb_np2They have different folder names, but the wag file names are the same.
The activity seems to tolerate it, but make sure those folder names are the ones listed.np_38567 and np_42290.The zips are: np-38567.zip and np_42290.zip
Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yeah! I checked & those are where thier supposed to be. Well, my activity editor is seeing no problems. So I suppose when I have time I'll go thru the consists as well as the static stuff to see if I can pin-point the problem car & switch it.I'll post if I can find my error.Rick.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Actually these two files were notorious for confusion in the original activity. When I first put the thing together there were two versions of each available and wouldn't you know it, I grabbed 'em all. I got all of them incorporated into the original. These wags
were also known at one time as US240ftb_np1 and US240ftb_np2. I suspect that a reference to one of these got carried over into the new activity, either in the .act file itself, or in one of the .con
files. I just spent the last several hours vaccuum cleaning this stuff out of
the activity. It will only refer to the US240ftb.wag now.
Each should be in its respective folder, cause they are different of course.I'm shortly going to upload v1.1 which will address this and some sound issues which needed a little work.stay tuned...

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Yard!I loaded your newly uploaded package & it worked!! All I have now is a minor sound issue(missing a sms file(#AI_GenEng3), which I'm sure is just something I missed. I'll go thru your instructions & find where I goofed. But no matter I can now run the trains. Thx, I'll post some pics when I get a chance to get up the hill.Rick...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Okay I'm good. I immediatly found my sound problem. The missing sms file was in the AlcoS4 dir & just needed to be moved to the sound dir.Just an FYI. The can't add car to world error still pops up but now I just hit OK at it proceeds to to the sim.Thx again....R.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-24-03 AT 04:11 PM (EDT)

I'm baffled. But then, thats a common state of mind for me. Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Just as an FYI; I downloaded the current WW31v1.1 file and applied it to my system cold. It hiccoughed and puked.I dissected the act file and found, much to my dismay that a few file referrences to car US240ftb_np2 were in there still. Damn!
I corrected the problem and did a dry run on my system. Seems ok now.
I quickly zipped a new apk file with an explaination to Train-sim.In the short term, anyone who is not skittish about editing their .act file can change the several referrences to US240ftb_n2 to US240ftb. (use the find and replace editing feature in notepad)If that is not comfortable and you can't wait, just e-mail me.
(my address is in the activity files) I'll attach and send you back the apk file. That seems to do the trick.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yep! I found that although the activity was working after the can't add car to world error. Wouldn't you know it! I couldn't reload after saving. Good thing I didn't get too far. Anyway I ended up editing the act & found that 2 static consists were causing my problems. The 3 cars at Meriwether & also the 3 car static at Glacier Park. Changed to suitable box cars from your list & away we went. No more problems for me, so I'll stand pat & just enjoy running the trains now...Thx for your help Rick...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Good for you. Test your saves & reloads again, but I think you'll be ok. I've been running the thing all eve. No problems. It just ticks me off that these things never seem to pop up during developement, but then blow up just as soon as I get it circulated.
I sometimes marvel at the patience of the folks running the server. They just seem to take it in stride and get the revisions posted.I hope folks are reading this, cause the fix is easy if they wish to take the time. I imagine the new .apk will be posted early next week.Post some pics or comments as you progress if you feel like it.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yep! Re-tested & I'm fine now. Neat activity, well worth it to get running. I'm in the early stages, hoping to get to the uphill when I have time tonight. Posted a few pics of the Shelby set out.Rick.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Rick:Outstanding shots! Nice carefully chosen angles! I'm gonna show these to some friends at work.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Anothe gentleman just spotted an inconsistancy in the consist list that may lead to confusion, so I've decided to post a revision here.It has to do with one of the Nh cars. The folder name is ok, but the
zip file needed to be: nh40-3.zip. See below....

zip file / Anticipated folder
---------------------------------------nh40-3.zip / nh40
nh40-5.zip / nh_40ft-5

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE:"New challenges, including electrical and traction motor failures are possible if the player abuses the engines"I have to admit that I'm curious as to how you could have such failures from player abuse as there are no such variables in the activity editor. My best guess would be that you use a "reach speed" action event to to end the activity or penalize the player with a pop-up message indicating a failure if the player reaches too high of a speed on a steep grade or something of that sort.Otherwise Im not aware of anyway to have the player service or player engines alter their performance from overstressing them.Longhairedwizard

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-26-03 AT 03:12 PM (EDT)

>RE:"New challenges, including electrical and traction motor
>failures are possible if the player abuses the engines"
>
>I have to admit that I'm curious as to how you could have
>such failures from player abuse as there are no such
>variables in the activity editor.
>
>My best guess would be that you use a "reach speed" action
>event to to end the activity or penalize the player with a
>pop-up message indicating a failure if the player reaches
>too high of a speed on a steep grade or something of that
>sort.
>
>Otherwise Im not aware of anyway to have the player service
>or player engines alter their performance from overstressing
>them.
>
>Longhairedwizard
I was wondering when someone was going to ask me that. You're quite right about much of it. But its not all that arbitrary. And it took months of testing to work out. Like so much in the activity, its woven tightly into the physics and load behavior. Believe me, you could not do it precisely the same with just any engine or cab files either.Here's the essentials:Each grade problem was analized individually. The behavior of the specific load meter (gp38) with physics, train speed dacay; under a variety of top and likely approach speeds, were observed repeatedly ad nauseum. Each area has very specific characteristics, and detection methods. (read: by-the-seat-of-my-pants research)As typical patterns became apparent, trigger points were set up (surely you peeked) to watch for certain speeds at certain points, which, based on observed behavior had to have placed the motors in overload, or near overload for some significant period of time. Except in a few specic instances, overloads can be avoided by the player with prototypical driving --but it'll cost ya time!In addition, I found the operations manual for the AlcoRS2/GE on line and went over the electrical safety features to familiarize myself with what was in there, and what was not.There are ground (chassis or earth) detection breakers in each eng
which detect and respond to a major fault in the power bus.
I ignored these in the whole equation since this is a more rare (and catestrophic) failure type, and motor overloading would not normally bring this into play.Each motor has an overcurrent breaker about which (rightly or wrongly) I make the following assumptions:1. They are designed to be "slo-blo's" which means that they don't
respond to current spikes, but instead, open only when a
sufficient amount of time at high current has produced the
neccessary thermal action to trip them.2. That once tripped under stress, this breaker requires a
"cool-down" period before it can be properly re-set.3. That all these devices are aged, and in a, shall we say, "well
used/abused" condition. Some of the behavior is based on what some folks familiar with engine
specifics told me about traction motor load tolerance periods on older engines. There was actually sort of a rough formula to it based on time duration in minutes. A basic rule of thumb in at least some instances was that a significant overload should not exceed about 5 minutes. And indeed, the AlcoRS2 had one variation of load meter
which illustrated in minute graduation numbers, just how long you could keep the motors at that current. In some cases up to 8 minutes, depending on the current level in amps.

So, as you can see, there is extrapolation involved.In my activity, you can overload the engine with impunity in some areas because the grade is not long enough to keep things in overcurrent sufficiently long to trip a breaker in all likelyhood.There are some areas which may trigger a motor burnout notification if you are unfortunate enough to bring this heavy train to a full standstill on an uphill grade with the throttle engaged. This would be after some considerable period of loading anyway, not just suddenly. In real life this wouldnt be good. Is the formula perfect? Not even close. I can only hope it fairly accurately represents some real possibilities for a negetive event, and gives the driver the incentive to engage in realistic driving proceedure given the bad package he's got. I know alot about electrical theory in general, but nothing that specific about RS2s or locos in general by way of first hand experience. I would have to know a whole lot more to come up with a physical model, and even then, as you point out, the tools currently in the editor are woefully inadequate to bring it into play. So I had to punt.

Here is the point: I'm trying to EMULATE some conditions, and force the player to respond to them using common sense --not replicate the electrical system. I want the player to try to get away from sharp overloading on grades without a thought of penalty. Any engineer in a similar situation would have to deal with these same constraints.So thats really it in a nutshell. I wish to God there was more
in the way of test and sample tools in the editor. But ya gotta live with it. All technical points aside, the two questions I use to guage the merit of the work are:Was the total activity experience stimulating?

Didja have fun?Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-26-03 AT 04:41 PM (EDT)

Okay, Thats all interesting to know. We'll see how all that comes into play. I should be able to resume tonite. I'll post some more pics when daylight crops up. Although I've gotten pretty good at handling the Engines on grades over the last year, I have a notion that I maybe posting a pic of a de-railment. I'm more used to the physics of the Dash9 & SD-40's(my power of choice). So this should be a mighty wild ride with these BUFF's. I haven't tried any of the earlier WWM releases, but at least the grades are somewhat forgiving on MP31.Later Rick...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Okay, Thats all interesting to know. We'll see how all that
>comes into play. I should be able to resume tonite. I'll
>post some more pics when daylight crops up. Although I've
>gotten pretty good at handling the Engines on grades over
>the last year, I have a notion that I maybe posting a pic of
>a de-railment. I'm more used to the physics of the Dash9 &
>SD-40's(my power of choice). So this should be a mighty wild
>ride with these BUFF's. I haven't tried any of the earlier
>WWM releases, but at least the grades are somewhat forgiving
>on MP31.
>
>Later Rick...
Yeah, I like the SD-40 too, although I am growing fond of my leased GP40-2 setup. You're right about the improved grades in mp3.1, but this was taken into consideration in re-formulating the load, so you will find it essentially as hard to handle in all the usual areas as was the old one. If your driving is anything like mine, you will have plenty of opportunity for that de-rail shot. (chuckle)

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Here in Scotland we dont have to cope with long gradients like in Mariias and so far I have failed completely to succeed in mastering the grade in MP31 between mileposts 1141 and 1145.I saved close to the start of the grade and have tried various strategies ...taking a run at it ignoring speed limits;taking it easy,just coaxing;backing the power off completely (until the Fail message appears);and even trying after disconnecting all the wagons(!)...but still the Fail message appears,no matter what I try.The load meter never goes into the "red" at any time.
I am obviously not a pro,to put it mildly,as far as driving goes and if anyone can tell me the correct way a pro would approach this gradient I would be very grateful.
The author of the activity must be congratulated on his attention to detail and knowledge of the route and stock and I would really like to progress further into it,but at the moment I am stuck!
Johnan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

johnan,On WWM for MP3.0, I tried to ignore completely Hank's warnings on the grade between mileposts 1141 and 1145...saved me some time compared to the tactic of throttling back to keep the amps off the red zone. Well, but even in the old version, TWO things became evident:-there is no more than a 5-10 minute time save in it
-the achieved time save is NOT crucial for completing the activity, unless you have screwed something in a capital wayComparing it to the WWM for MP3.1, one more thing became evident:
-there is almost NO time save in 3.1(when you have to take care of the motors) compared to 3.0(with ignoring the load meter).After burning out a traction motor at the first attempt, I got a bit more smart on the second and managed the grade with no problem. Here are the keys for success:-switch back from 100% before the load meter goes into the reds
-keep switching back until your moving at 2-3-4 mph. Throttle should be at 63% or below(and the loadmeter well off the red zone or in worst case at the "borderline" between normal operation and red). Driving at higher motor settings even with a "borderline" load seems to trigger a traction motor damage faster than usual while high loads on lower throttle settings can go on for more time
-ignore the speed(unless it drops to zero)...as long you're still moving, you're gonna make it.
-slingshotting the beginning of the grade gives you a small advantage...try this if your train is stalling at the last meters. Compared to the old WWM(for MP3.0), in this version, the train seems to accelerate faster but also loses faster any accumulated inertia...I wonder if this is related more tho the key gradient changes or to the once again tweaked physics...Hope that helpsTommy

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Thanks for the suggestions, Tommy.I will have another go and let you know if I make it!
Johnan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-27-03 AT 01:32 PM (EDT)

Whew! It never occured to me someone might try to solve the problem by disconnecting the consist. Don't doooo that! It will fool the trigger points into thinking you're running in the red for sure.
Tommy is correct. The hill between 1141 and 1145 is just a warmup to get one used to throttle disipline. Heres what I do in testing.
Approach the grade at 25-26mph. This is tricky because of the recent speed limit change, but its doable. run up the hill at full throttle until the amperage is near 1000 (redline), and back off one notch.
Lather; rinse, repeat. If your approach speed is really slow (less than 25) you might find yourself in a near stall situation as you approach marker 1145, but here you can probably go into overload because the angle of this grade diminishes with distance, and you will not stay in overload long at that point, as the engine inertia will shortly build enough to diminsh overload. By this time the grade angle will no longer be that difficult. The basic formula here is:
1. go into the grade with a little inertia, say 25-26mph..
2. keep the load out of the red by one notch.
All it will cost ya is time.
Remember, the solution to most of these problems is not exotic. In most cases, just do what an engineer would probably do.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Thank you for your helpful reply.Unfortunately even when I keep as close as I can to your suggestions I still get the activity failed message near the 1142 mileboard.Maybe something went amiss in my installation of the bits and pieces needed for the activity so I had better have another go at the setting up.
By the way ,the new file in the library is only the apk update... should there be another file in the zip with clearer installation instructions,etc? as the diz file suggests.
Thanks again
johnan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-27-03 AT 05:31 PM (EDT)

The only change/correction not currently contained in the ww31v1.1.zip
is mentioned in this very thread regarding car folder nh40 and its wag file, and the np-1 and np_2 wag file issues. The Diz was a quick copy of the original with an additional paragraph noting the .apk change and why. If more file problems pop up beyond what has already been addressed here, I will probably upload a new zip with revised contents. Right now, that .apk should address all known program execution problems if the consist list is intact and currently living in your Trainset directory. The RC-lite utility should reveal any problems lurking there. Honestly, the only thing I can think of that would prevent climbing that grade successfully would be a fundamental change in loco physics, or wag physics in the main consist. Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-27-03 AT 05:39 PM (EDT)

johnan,Something might be indeed screwed. If you have MP3.0 installed, maybe it could be helpful to clean this route. On my install, I have MP3.0 and 3.1 coexisting with no problem, but who knows. A couple of suggestions, if even this doesn't help:-check if you're using the correct .eng and .wag files
-reinstall your routes and X-tracks. You can safely do it without reinstalling the whole MSTS. Just delete your routes folder(do not forget to back it up in a safe place if something goes wrong). Then, copy the routes folder from the MSTS CD into the correct folder. Re-install all additional routes after that.A word on "slingshotting" - Yardlimit is right about the speed limit. It makes it somehow different to manage the grade, but if you're eager, here's a way to try:Before the speed limit change, let your speed drop BELOW the speed limit coming ahead. Then, ACCELERATE towards the speed limit. Once you've entered the speed limit zone, let acceleration decay(or cut it) by reducing the throttle. This should help you entering the grade with more inertia. WHATEVER HAPPENS, DO NOT APPLY BRAKE, LET THE GRADE SLOW YOU DOWN INSTEAD!!! It takes some time to get used to this approach, but it pays out. If you enter the speed limit zone controlling your speed with brakes applied, then you have much worse chances of making the grade. Release the brakes too late, you've played out a valuable amount of inertia, release brakes prematurely, you derail. Not so easy to learn, but fun to do it....and after all just a matter of practice. By the way, this tactic is usable on a large number of grades....just try it to see itHappy railroading!!!
Tommy

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Let me make one more hypothesis:The developer (me) assumes everyone will be abiding by speed limits
and US Rail practices on average. This includes setting the derail feature ON, which I prominently mention in the setup. Lets assume for a moment that one approaches the grade at 1141 at the fastest possible speed, indeed, going into overspeed. You hit the grade at say 30 mph.
I didn't count on anyone doing this, but, its just possible that if you replicate these conditions you may carry forward with enough inertia to trigger an overload condition, even though you may not be in an overload condition. I am going to replicate this possibility and judge if there is any need to make an adjustment. Meantime, everyone should just try to make sure and stay within normal operating requirements as detemined by speedlimits or other routine
operating practices. The only place it should really get nuts is at markers 1149 - 1151. That requires balance and finesse. The other grades should be challenging, but achievable if you handle the engine carefully.I don't think having MP3.0 living on your system should cause any trouble. The new version of WW was developed on 3.1 (with all of the three MP3.1 fixes and updates applied by the way) and only points to that version in the reference data. It won't even run on MP3.0.
And believe me, some people have tried that already.

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I reloaded all the rolling stock, and activity, and double checked I had followed the instructions re: mods to the engines etc,and I am pleased to say I managed up the "1141" hill at the second attempt!
I realise things in the activity are going to get harder but the feeling of achievment on getting up was incredible!What an excellent piece of work this activity is.Well done for all your hard work and thanks too for bothering to reply to my pleas for help.You are a genius,Yardlimit!
Johnan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>I reloaded all the rolling stock, and activity, and double
>checked I had followed the instructions re: mods to the
>engines etc,and I am pleased to say I managed up the "1141"
>hill at the second attempt!
>I realise things in the activity are going to get harder but
>the feeling of achievment on getting up was incredible!What
>an excellent piece of work this activity is.Well done for
>all your hard work and thanks too for bothering to reply to
>my pleas for help.You are a genius,Yardlimit!
>Johnan A genius! Oh God! I must show this to my wife. She currently rates me
somewhere between a toadstool and a geek with poor social skills.I like your assessment better.Glad you got it going. Its no bother; I really have to pay attention to feedback by folks like you because this is a complicated little animal and I learned in the first version how much can go wrong during
developement. I can honestly say thus far that I haven't had near the trouble with the new one. Lets hope the luck holds. My attitude toward the work is, well, if there turns out to be something wrong, I just keep fixing it. I want people to regard the activity as a "keeper." I can only manage that if I try to support it. Besides, its kinda fun.At some point I'll repackage all the little things that we have discovered so far and correct it all in one more issue, but I want to wait a bit in case something else arises. I don't want to drive the server administrator and everyone else nuts with too many closely spaced revisions.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

My wife thinks that of me too but women in general find it hard to understand what motivates/stimulates engineers...certainly the ones with a natural flair and affinity for things mechanical.
She is a literary expert so we respect our very different interests!
I will keep going with the activity and let you know,or ask for help,when I get further into it.
All the best
Johnan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Whew!

Made it to MP 1145...
The activity will not go unflawed for me though. I derailed just past Glacier Park Station. Oh Well, It gave me a better restart for the upcoming Hazard at MP 1141. Got thru mostly at 63% throttle going up to 75% for brief seconds(It throws you in the red right away). It's slow going though between 3-8 MPH, but patience seems to be the trick here. Had to use sanding as well as my wheels began to slip momentarily.Was a lot of fun & felt very realistic, as you can't really get out of the cab view for long. My eyes were glued to the meter for dear life. Boy! thinking about getting downhill with this load just makes the hair on my arms stand up.Later Rick...

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ed4ff96179d6b35.jpg

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

The next hill is a real beauty!!I have turned on to the straight at the bottom just reaching 35mph (any more and you derail) but just dont quite reach the very top and start going backwards!I have tried more than 10 times without success so perhaps a little tweaking of the tweakable variables would make it a bit more achievable and satisfying.
Johnan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

You really gotta love that Hank; he reminds me of Gunny Ermey on the History Channel! I've made up the front side, now for the back side. In real life, is it a big deal to go into emergency on the brakes? I'm finding that I've needed to go this far to control the train several times.Hopefully I'll make it to the bottom without "wearing the coal train like a feather boa"!MC

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I like the analogy. Hank would too. The impression I get from reading elsewhere, and what has
been related from others is that a full emergency is to be avoided unless, well... its an emergency. MSTS actually will criticise you for this in its critique. If it is applied for a brief period, like a couple seconds, and then drop back to continuous, MSTS seems to regard that as legitimate, and will not gig you for it. You can get out of jams that way. It is not unusual from my point of view to have to use emergency one or more times on the backside. But I am getting much better at avoiding this now, and if you play this one as often as I must, you will get good at "tapping" them to make fine adjustments.I heard secondhand, supposedly from a Passenger engineer that, aside
from hurling things around inside, you can actually "tear up track" for hundreds of feet. I took that to mean loosen fastening hardware; requiring later repairs. Maybe someone in the industry knows.

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

So, going into EMERGENCY actually locks 'em up, I guess. I'll have to be more careful...I've tried a number of different ways to brake, mostly with no success short of going into emergency. And, when I do resort to emergency, it is only for a few seconds. If left on too long, the train stops, and one has to get the whole shebang going again. But, I'll keep trying.MC

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Experience has taught me that when things get quiet, that means the
activity is running, and people are having fun. Right?For those that have recently completed WW31v1.1 successfully, if you would, tell me how many AI trains you saw, and most importantly, give me a fair idea what time you reached the lockdown point. Now be honest. Just a short note will do.I'm gathering info for the final release. FYI: A major flaw was discovered in the DerailForce equation
for the RS2. After I was fanned and revived, I was given whiskey.
For a short time I mentally re-lived the last 3 months structuring this activity. The rattling of the ice in the cocktail glass gripped in my shaking hand finally startled me back to the present. Eventually, I found the courage to edit the .eng file, and take one more trip down that long road. When the new figures were field tested, the thing behaved as designed, and responded predictably to
overspeed conditions at critical points. This will be factored into
the update.There is a God... and he loves us.

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON May-30-03 AT 00:53 AM (EDT)

Greg,Thanks for a great activity. I finished it up today, made it all the way through, and Hank bought me the breaded fish at Lucy's. I believe I saw a total of 4 AI trains, all seemed to work fine except no sound. I'm trying to figure that out now. What do you mean by "lockdown point"? I finished the activity about 12:50 or so, I think, and drove the limit as much as I could manage, between emergency braking and chugging up the horrendous grades. I REALLY enjoyed playing this activity. It was truly challenging. I'm hoping it will give me some inspiration and ideas for some activities of my own.MC

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Greg,
>
>Thanks for a great activity. I finished it up today, made
>it all the way through, and Hank bought me the breaded fish
>at Lucy's. I believe I saw a total of 4 AI trains, all
>seemed to work fine except no sound. I'm trying to figure
>that out now. What do you mean by "lockdown point"? I
>finished the activity about 12:50 or so, I think, and drove
>the limit as much as I could manage, between emergency
>braking and chugging up the horrendous grades.
>
>I REALLY enjoyed playing this activity. It was truly
>challenging. I'm hoping it will give me some inspiration
>and ideas for some activities of my own.
>
>MC ---------------------------------------------------------------
MC:The lockdown point is simply that place on siding#2 at Whitefish
where the prog tells you you've completed or not completed successfully. If Hank bought you dinner at "Lucy's," then you found
it. Your finish time is ideal from my stand point.The sound issue is well known. I often experience the same thing.
A lot of it is tied up in the way the prog allocates sound resources.
I got so frustrated at this for awhile, that I set up an activity just to test the AI train sound, one consist after the other. I know they all CAN work, and much of the time they do work. Lately though it seems like they just get drowned out by the RS2 sounds, because most alias off the rather quiet GP38.

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

After some days I finally got the time to complete the activity. No cheats, no porky tricks, and I arrived at Whitefish Siding Nr 2 around 12.20 PM. Actually, I beat my record set on Widowmaker for MP3.0 by about 4 minutes. Good throttle management and braking technique make it, altough you have to get used to watch the load meter.Saw three AI trains underway, as far I can remember:
-a passenger E7 shortly before reaching Cutbank
-an Alco switcher pulling some 10 reefers at Cutbank
-a couple of Geeps with a consist of some 20-30 covered hoppers at Spotted Robe or Glacier Park(guess I have one beer too much to name the exact locationThe grade after marker 1196 was no problem....entered it with enoug inertia(48-49 mph, the limit there was 50), throttle to N8 and brakes released. Reduced throttle one notch every time the load meter reached 1000 Amps....as Hank advised me, I can back off the reds, I was running at 8mph with the load meter well out of the red...all I had to do wait until I could apply full throttle again to keep it going.Yardlimit, I have to thank you, once again the hardest and most exciting activity I've ever played!!!! Maybe I've been playing flight simulations too much, but I've seen that every flightsim generation had ONE addon which took it all to the limit and beyond. When speaking of train simulation, it is YOUR Widowmaker which explores the limits and goes beyond. Really, nothing compares By the way, an Idea.....guess all these GP9's and reefers I've seen so far...they really make me wanna drive some in an activity designed by you......Best wishes
Tommy

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>After some days I finally got the time to complete the
>activity. No cheats, no porky tricks, and I arrived at
>Whitefish Siding Nr 2 around 12.20 PM. Actually, I beat my
>record set on Widowmaker for MP3.0 by about 4 minutes. Good
>throttle management and braking technique make it, altough
>you have to get used to watch the load meter.
>
>Saw three AI trains underway, as far I can remember:
>-a passenger E7 shortly before reaching Cutbank
>-an Alco switcher pulling some 10 reefers at Cutbank
>-a couple of Geeps with a consist of some 20-30 covered
>hoppers at Spotted Robe or Glacier Park(guess I have one
>beer too much to name the exact location
>
>The grade after marker 1196 was no problem....entered it
>with enoug inertia(48-49 mph, the limit there was 50),
>throttle to N8 and brakes released. Reduced throttle one
>notch every time the load meter reached 1000 Amps....as Hank
>advised me, I can back off the reds, I was running at 8mph
>with the load meter well out of the red...all I had to do
>wait until I could apply full throttle again to keep it
>going.
>
>Yardlimit, I have to thank you, once again the hardest and
>most exciting activity I've ever played!!!! Maybe I've been
>playing flight simulations too much, but I've seen that
>every flightsim generation had ONE addon which took it all
>to the limit and beyond. When speaking of train simulation,
>it is YOUR Widowmaker which explores the limits and goes
>beyond. Really, nothing compares
>
>By the way, an Idea.....guess all these GP9's and reefers
>I've seen so far...they really make me wanna drive some in
>an activity designed by you......
>
>Best wishes
>Tommy
Tommy, you speed demon!Now here is a guy who no doubt plays "Grand Theft Auto" and then
applies his skills to MSTS. (chuckle)Anyway, the reason you saw only 3 AI trains is because you got to Whitefish too early to see the last passenger local pull out. (hah)I will probably adjust some of the AI train scheduals slightly, or
make them wait before moving so that everyone gets a glimpse of them at some point.Glad you liked everything so far.Yes, I will no doubt work on another activity. Those early US hood diesels like the sd9 are kind of fun. I like them too. And of course, there will be the older livery.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Wow, thank you for the nice reply...I was actually wondering, where is the 4th AI train, but thought, seeing it is some kind of event that is triggered by certain conditions and doesn't always show upAbout my arrival time - guess what, I found the activity a bit harder to complete than the "old" WWM for MP3.0 and NEVER thought I will beat my previous "best" arrival time. Here is a small comparison on arriving certain points enroute in both versions of the activity. If you want, you can also receive more accurate and detailed shedule, the time values I am citing here are just off the top of my head:Location WWM MP3.0 WWM MP3.1Cutbank 8:10 8:15
Top of the Pass 9:40 9:52
Red Eagle 11:00 11.10As I made Red Eagle by 11:10, I was confident about being able to make Whitefish on time, but I never thought I will make it that fast. I guess, what proved to be a time save was the simplified procedure of picking up the additional hoppers at Red Eagle. Don't know what saved me that much time enroute...really, even I was baffled as it became evident that I will be able to make Whitefish that early. I guess it is the combination of throttle management and braking...I was trying to slingshot every grade I could, finding the best braking points on the slide down(and actually some points where it was safe to release the brake if the train was going too slow on the sustained descends. One can safely take the train down on the descend into Java(the hardes t one in my opinion) with brakes applied and train going as slow as 10 mph. But clever braking really leaves you some points where one can release the brake to let the train gain some speed and reapply it on time to keep speed within the limits. Experimented a lot with these settings until I found the best braking points and how much brake I have to add. Just in retrospection I can say, I was kinda "racing" the train - braking as much as needed but also as little as possible. This saved my ass on more than one descend, where I was dare enough to release the brake as I was not content with the dramatical decrease of my speed. It was kinda like racing a Go-Kart....just a 2200 tons heavy Go-Kart Yard, thank you once more for the activity and for your reply. The "speed demon" was real fun to read, left me with a (now 18-hour) lasting BIG grin on my face.Tommy
speed demon engineer on a ghost trainP.S. I was thinking about publishing my secrets on how to make Whitefish that fast. For everyone who completed the act - if you want, let's compare

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

In my case things have got quiet because I have been trying to get up the same annoying hill for what seems to be an eternity!(The hill is the one after picking up the helper engine,20 or 30 miles from Whitefish)There is no way that I can make it...same failure message each time in the same place...woe is me..back to driver school,or airline pilot academy,probably easier, methinks.
Just wondering,I use the raildriver cab control gadget, which I find great, but perhaps it may not be giving me the fine control needed to succeed in some of these challenges...the raildriver does have a less than ideal method of interpreting the feedback from msts,which makes fine control difficult.Hopefully this will not be a problem in msts2.
Anyone had success using it for this activity?
johnan
By the way, this is still a fantastic activity...it is just I am no good at it!!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>In my case things have got quiet because I have been trying
>to get up the same annoying hill for what seems to be an
>eternity!(The hill is the one after picking up the helper
>engine,20 or 30 miles from Whitefish)There is no way that I
>can make it...same failure message each time in the same
>place...woe is me..back to driver school,or airline pilot
>academy,probably easier, methinks.
>Just wondering,I use the raildriver cab control gadget,
>which I find great, but perhaps it may not be giving me the
>fine control needed to succeed in some of these
>challenges...the raildriver does have a less than ideal
>method of interpreting the feedback from msts,which makes
>fine control difficult.Hopefully this will not be a problem
>in msts2.
>Anyone had success using it for this activity?
>johnan
>By the way, this is still a fantastic activity...it is just
>I am no good at it!!
Relax Jonan.This is a hard activity that makes most ones rated hard seem less
so. I was quite deliberate about that because I wanted it to be something more than a routine excercise in logic. Be patient with yourself; follow Hank's suggestions, and don't be afraid to experiment a little. You are likely going into that hill too slow. Don't forget, Hank says try going for broke with the throttle near the top after you've used up all your inertia. You probably won't be in overload long enough to pop a breaker. Get creative up there; try going in and out of full throttle for short periods to rebuild speed. There's a little room for maneuver here. Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Glad to report that I downloaded the latest (1.2) version of the activity and have just finished a meal at Lucys!!The whole thing ran like a dream (nightmare!) and is incredibly absorbing...the time just flies by,before you realise it you find you have been driving and concentrating for over 3 hours non stop.Congrratulations on an excellent activity and thanks for putting in all the hard work for our enjoyment.It was a bit of a pity when the "activity complete" sign came up,I could have done with more!
Thanks again,
Johnan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Glad to report that I downloaded the latest (1.2) version of
>the activity and have just finished a meal at Lucys!!The
>whole thing ran like a dream (nightmare!) and is incredibly
>absorbing...the time just flies by,before you realise it you
>find you have been driving and concentrating for over 3
>hours non stop.Congrratulations on an excellent activity and
>thanks for putting in all the hard work for our enjoyment.It
>was a bit of a pity when the "activity complete" sign came
>up,I could have done with more!
>Thanks again,
>Johnan Glad to hear from you!
I was worried.You did avoid the breaded fish? You know the part I like best? Its when you get to the top of that
last really exasperating grade; you're presumably sweating blood, the motors are about to melt down, and Hank says:"Think they're paying you enough, Kid?"Anyway, people's enjoyment is my reward. I'll cook up another activity. Tommy offered some ideas, but I need a little time off to think of something equally outrageous.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.