Observations on Front Coupling

LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-03 AT 04:52 PM (EDT)

Some time back I unwittingly successfully created an activity in the FBL2 route using front coupling, with no problems. More recently, I tried it again, this time in the Dogskill Route, although this time with no luck. MSTS locked up every time I coupled. I then tried to use front coupling to a large consist in an activity in the Carrizo Gorge route, also with no luck. This led me to do a little experimenting. In Carrizo Gorge, I started with an engine and 5 cars, tried to front couple. It worked! So, I started increasing the cars in the consist and front-coupled, and when I reached 13 things began locking up. Less than 13, no problem. I tried the same thing in FBL2, and found that there seemed to be no limit; any number of cars would front-couple with no issues.(Edited: I tried this with several different locomotives, too.)It seemed to me that the front-coupler issue may be "route-dependent." But then, while working on an activity in the FBL2, I inadvertently left a consist on the main when placing a reverse point, and when I ran the activity, of course, came upon said consist. No problem, I says, I'll simply front-couple to it and push it out of the way. I happen to know that front-coupling works fine in the FBL2. But, alas, when I did this, MSTS locked up, just as it had in Carrizo Gorge and Dogskill.So, I'm back at square one. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. I know that the updates 1.1 and/or 1.2 from MS were supposed to correct this, but apparently they weren't quite totally successful. It's wierd.MC

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RE: Observations on Front Coupling, hdpayne, Apr-18-03, 07:44 PM, (1) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, robertreedy, Apr-18-03, 08:42 PM, (2) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, MasterChief, Apr-19-03, 10:19 AM, (3) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, sniper297, Apr-19-03, 08:28 PM, (4) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, MasterChief, Apr-20-03, 01:24 AM, (5) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, Paul1953, Jun-01-03, 02:44 AM, (6) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, sniper297, Jun-01-03, 10:08 AM, (7) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, MasterChief, Jun-01-03, 04:10 PM, (8) RE: Observations on Front Coupling, sniper297, Jun-01-03, 09:34 PM, (9)

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I had issues with the front coupler on Carizzo Gorge, but it seemed to be dependant on the locomotive I was coupling to. I was able to couple the NALW EMD F40PH 309 up to one of the NALW Genesis Locos, but I was unable to couple two Genesis Locos.

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-03 AT 08:43 PM (EDT)

MC, you may already be familiar with this, but Sniper wrote a very accurate 'report' on when, where, what and how in front-coupling. The possible reason for your last problem on FBL2 was because the consist was on the path. I haven't been able to find the article, but am looking for it and will post the url if found.

RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

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Thanks Robert,I'll look for it too. I hadn't seen it before.Another thing I found regarding front coupling, that I haven't substantiated yet, is that it seems somewhat dependent on the location within the route, too. The proximity to an automatic switch seems to affect the success of front-coupling. I'm going to experiment with this some more.MC

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Some of that stuff got wiped out in the server crash, when the patch first came out there was a lot of discussion about it.http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=10066&forum=DCForumID3"The proximity to an automatic switch seems to affect the success of front-coupling", since you can't take the curved part of an automatic switch in an activity without a path, the "loose car on the path" bug could account for that. Try making the reverse point stop short of the loose consist, you CAN drive beyond reverse points.The other possibility is something I found with bboxedit, I wasn't aware that some of the default MSTS cars have incorrect bounding boxes. The US2chemicar, for example, sometimes refuses to couple even with the back coupler until the bounding box is fixed, and the two cars that I've experienced the most off-path front coupler lockups with are the US2chemicar and the US2graincar. Add-on cars & engines frequently have incorrect numbers in the .eng or .wag files, possibly running bboxedit on those might cure them.

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Thanks, Jim.Your thread info matches with what I've found, after I thought about it a bit. The activity where I was successful in front coupling has me way back in Lena's Mining siding in the FBL2, well off the path, and no automatic switches. I'm going to experiment with your information some more, keeping your advice in mind concerning the path.I wondered about the bounding box, too, since I have noticed that some cars, as you mentioned, are difficult to couple. I need to run all my cars thru the editor, and get in the habit of checking new cars with it also.Thanks again,
MC

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This is interesting to me, as I am currently woking on an activity where front coupling is crucial to its success. The player train will couple up, no problem. Its when I have to uncouple the locos(2) from the consist, that the trouble starts. Ended up setting the handbrakes, 6 cars at a time before I could shake 'em loose. I may have to rethink this activity..Paul Watson

" I hear my train a-comin'"
Jimi Hendrix

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I used to set handbrakes on cars until I ran across some cars that didn't have handbrakes!Hee-hee, then I found a better solution for diesels, the problem with diesels is you pop it into notch 1 and back away, it accelerates so quickly that you're over 1mph in milliseconds. Since the front coupler engages at any speed in excess of 1mph, ka-chunk and it's recoupled. So set the loco brake to 30%, reverser to reverse, uncouple, throttle to notch 1, then slo-o-o-owly bleed off the loco brake (about 15%) until the engine just starts creeping backwards, then hold what you got until you have 5 feet of seperation. If you bleed off the loco brake too fast and it does recouple, apply more loco brake, uncouple again, and release a little less loco brake.Best option if you're including the player engine with the activity (or you can just include a replacement .eng file, see the PO&N activity update) is to optimize the engine for low speed control;http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/18308.htmlI gotta dig out my calconfuser and figure out some better numbers, but essentially you open the .eng file in wordpad, edit find :engine variables", and look for the throttle notch settings.EngineControllers (
Throttle ( 0 1 0.125 0
NumNotches ( 9
Notch ( 0 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.125 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.25 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.375 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.5 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.625 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.75 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.875 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 1 0 Dummy )Since there's one idle notch and 8 power notches, that's evenly divided into 1/8ths power settings. I just hacked the first three;EngineControllers (
Throttle ( 0 1 0.125 0.
NumNotches ( 9
Notch ( 0 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.06 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.18 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.33 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.5 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.625 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.75 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.875 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 1 0 Dummy )4,5,6,7, and 8 are unchanged, which leaves a bigger jump from one notch to another below 4, but notch 1 is half the juice of the default so it accelerates a lot slower, and with those settings on the geep 38 I can uncouple and back away without recoupling every time, no longer have to fool with loco brakes or handbrakes on cars.After hacking the notches for better control, save the .eng file, and include it in the activity zip with instructions to replace the other .eng file with the hacked one.

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Interesting. I'm going to fiddle with and see what improvements I can come up with.It makes sense that the locomotive makes more of a difference that location, although I'm not thoroughly convinced that the proximity of automatic switches isn't tangled up in there somewhere, too.The activity I arbitrarily succeeded in using front coupling with uses an ATSF GP60 (I don't know where I got it - didn't keep the credits files); right out of the box this engine has absolutely no issues front coupling and uncoupling. I guess I got lucky when I chose it, and so figured all this hoopla over front coupling was so much baloney. That is, until I tried creating another activity on the Dogskill with a different locomotive; MSTS crashed every time. I got so disgusted I threw the whole thing away.Maybe with this insight I can give it another whorl, by manipulating the throttle settings.Thanks,MC

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 09:35 PM (EDT)

Yup, sometimes it seems to be random, sometimes I can consistently duplicate the lockup just by duplicating the conditions exactly. Since cars also have a "designated" front and back coupler, there's a bunch of possible combinations, and one buggy car in the middle of a string of 40 cars won't trigger the bug if it's turned one way, but flip it the other way and it triggers the bug. Then the car that's closest to the engine gets blamed even tho it's not at fault.http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/18341.html

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