Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2

LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-02 AT 06:25 PM (EDT)

The final version, V1.2 (I know I keep saying this) of "Widow" has just been uploaded. I imagine it will be available shortly. It contains all the fixes and updates to date. Miraculously, no one has come forth with any unknown issues since widowud3.zip was published. v1.2 also now contains two new very nice Alco engine sound schemes that some of you may be already aware of, and are available on this site. I have received permission to package them with "widow," and these ones will support the MU helper engine sounds I had featured previously. If you don't like the new sounds, the originals are packaged along with them in case you prefer those. The text
file contains updated "care & feeding" instructions to cover sound file installation and use.As before, I remain available to correct any further playability or
installation issues that come forward. Meantime, my thanks to everyone for their patience with the "teething problems." If you like it, let me know. If you think it sucks, let me know
(for this too is instructive).Best Wishes,

Yardlimit

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RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, Paul1953, Oct-07-02, 03:37 AM, (1) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, yardlimit, Oct-07-02, 01:07 PM, (2) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, yardlimit, Oct-07-02, 09:11 PM, (3) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, dkunath, Oct-07-02, 09:42 PM, (4) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, yardlimit, Oct-07-02, 11:08 PM, (5) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, dkunath, Oct-08-02, 01:32 PM, (7) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, Paul1953, Oct-08-02, 02:14 AM, (6) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, LawrenceKellie, Nov-02-02, 00:17 AM, (8) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, downside, Nov-02-02, 02:10 PM, (9) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, LawrenceKellie, Nov-02-02, 06:26 PM, (10) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, downside, Nov-03-02, 03:58 AM, (11) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, kmanc21, Nov-03-02, 07:19 AM, (12) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, yardlimit, Nov-03-02, 12:39 PM, (13) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, gallaghe44, Nov-21-02, 03:59 PM, (14) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, dcrano, Nov-21-02, 05:56 PM, (15) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, yardlimit, Nov-26-02, 10:02 PM, (16) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, aeroflot, Apr-16-03, 09:42 PM, (17) RE: Whitefish Widowmaker v1.2, yardlimit, May-19-03, 12:05 PM, (18)

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Hi yardlimit, yeah, I've been checking here daily as well to see if anything else turned up. When v1.2 comes out, will we have to eliminate the previous version(s)or overwrite?. Also, remember the 4 pcs. of rolling stock that kept showing up(the banana car,etc.), will these now have a place within? Still no luck with the framerate issue,even after boosting ram from 384 to a full 1gb. I'm hoping my machine will be able to take the new ATI 9700, cos it cant take any G-Force card, we've tried to no avail. Best of luck with the new version, will be happy to let you know how it goes.

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The new ver simply puts all the corrections as of widowud3 in one package, so there is no fundamental changes there. You needn't disturb games in progress. The bannana car etc issue was brought to light in my previous web thread and addressed in the rolling stock correction list as of ud3. That same list is of course contained in the new one. The only really new feature is some Alco sound add ons
which I hope people will enjoy.Best Wishes,

Yardlimit

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BTW In reference to concerns about frame rates.
I did make some helpful suggestions about his in my previous thread.
I'll go over some again. Just to provide some point of reference, I'll outline the system on which "Wdow" was designed and run on, and I'll itemize what I have experienced. Then I'll tell you what tweaks I have used, and others can then guage what they might expect.First: Yes, Widow is a resource hog. You won't run this one well on a 600mhz chip and a Nvidia TNT2. Sorry. Its not only "widow" but the MSTS engine as well. People in the industry will tell you that "right out of the box," MSTS was one of the most resource hungry software releases of its time. Most of us know this. This is what I'm using:AMD 1.4 Ghz Thunderbird.
Nvidia GeForce3 64Mgb. AGP
684 Mhb Ram.
ASUS A7V mobo with VIA chipset.
SB Live! with 5.1 surround sound.That's essentially it. Not a slouch, but hardly cutting edge by today's standards. Here's what I manage using my system:cab forward view in crowded yards. 12fps - 15fps.
outside view from side in yards 12fps - 19ps.
outside forward view in yards 10fps - 14fps.this sort of thing is typical in Whitefish and Shelby --all other locations should be, and are, much better.Throughout most of the trip this is typical:Foward view cab 26fps - 30fps
outside view side 19fps - 27fps
outside view forward from above 17fps - 25fps#4 key passing view will typically progress from 14fps to 27fps
in one pass. In Whitefish and Shelby its much less depending on location.here are my settings in MSTS:shadows on
dynamic shadows off (this helps)
high detail shadows off (this helps)no wires or precip in this activity; so I turn them off.
most everything else is on, and running at the higher end.whats my resolution? 1600 x 1200 16bit --always. I dislike crappy details.I usually use 2x anti-aliasing as well. Don't like jagged lines either.Vsync is normally on, and I refresh at 85hz.Yes I am using an Nvidia Tweaker program; just to get all the card features working.Thats it in a nutshell. If you've got a hotter system than mine and you are not performing at least this well, than you need to do some serious web research on 3d video features and tweak them up. Its not rocket science. If an old "fart" like me can figure it out; you can too.Best Wishes,

Yardlimit

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My computer specs:P4 2.2
TI 4600
1+Gig Memory
2 40gig Western HarddrivesI would think that I have an adequate computer to run your activity, so the fact that the screen is frozen when the activity is finished loading is not due to frame rates. I followed all the instructions, no longer get any error messages, but when its finished loading all that appears is a frozen screen with a view from the cab. No briefing screen, no sound, no nothing. Any ideas?Dwayne

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Dwayne:Absolutely the only thing I can think of is a corrupt activity file,
or possibly a major component within it. This is not a simple pointer error in an engine file or something. The fact that it is
bringing your system to its knees makes it a non-recoverable error.
This isn't likely just a syntax problem in a file somewhere. Your
processor has reached a piece of code it can't even spit back out in an error recovery routine, let alone interpret. I'll take a leap of faith and assume all other activities are running fine, and this one is the only one that triggers this response. Here is what I would do:Load the Whitefish Widowmaker activity file right into the editor.
If the editor goes bonkers with errors, or just locks up, this would further reinforce my suspicions. If, on the other hand, it allows you to look around at the layout (dont alter anything) then just for kicks, go one step further: re-package it using the editor file command. You'll find a new Whitefish Widow .apk file in the activity
folder in Marias3. Go ahead and unpackage this new clone. (cant get any worse than what you've described) Then run Route Control, just to see if it "belches." If it doesn't, try running the activity again. If the system crashes in the same manner as in the past, assume some aspect of the activity has been corrupted, but that the editor cant detect it. I'll be suprised if it can't; that thing is touchy. If you reach this situation with no improvement, then download an entirely new copy of the activity; for the one you currently possess is surely digital poison.That's my take at this point. Best Wishes,

Yardlimit

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Thanks, I'll try downloading the activity again and see if that works.Dwayne

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Noted, Thanks, PW

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Reviving this topic as I am getting a very unusual error. I checked all the previous Widow threads, but it was not covered.Upon loading the activity in the Sim, I get the error "No extended shape data for ta_NKP_50t_hop_loaded.s." Now, from what I understand, the extended shape data file is the *.sd file. And it's there.It gets weirder, though.When I run a consist of TA's which uses the loaded hopper, it works. In WW1.2, it doesn't?Everything checks out with Route Control. And, I can load the activity in the AE. I can also see the hopper's picture in the consist editor.Thoughts?Lawrence

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Lawrence - I have spent a most unprofitable afternoon trying to solve the same problem and have got to the stage where I am going to have to delete it for the time being.Bill

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>Lawrence - I have spent a most unprofitable afternoon trying
>to solve the same problem and have got to the stage where I
>am going to have to delete it for the time being.
>
>Bill While I'm sorry that you have/had the same problem, I'm glad that it just isn't some ineptness on my part! Thanks for letting me know.Lawrenceps. I am quite eager to run this activity.

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>ps. I am quite eager to run this activity. So am I but not to the extent of spending so much time trying to get it to run on my system.Bill

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Bill,
I'm with you on this one. I invested numerous hours on the original version of this activity and followed the threads here closely and never could get it to run properly, due to several pieces of rolling stock not listed in the Read Me. I also had to change the names of serveral .wag files, etc. So, I wound up deleting the whole thing from my system.
I respect the time and effort the activity designer put into this effort, but I could not get it to run properly.
Ken
Ken

How did I survive before MSTS

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Sorry for your trouble guys. I'll offer some thoughts, and a suggestion. During the course of developement of this activity,
a number of things gradually became apparent:1. As the number of non-standard units grows, so does the potential
for conflict grow exponentially. Initially, much of this was due to
lack of awareness on my part about just how critical rolling stock folder name syntax could become. In time, these issues were
overcome.2. The code behind the editor and the game engine are one pair of
complex beasts, and what is a satisfactory meal to one, can be absolutely toxic to the other. I've seen example after example of situations where there was no apparent reason for conflict, and yet you couldnt get the activity to run to save your life. One recent example was a fellow I heard from who explained that when he attempted to unpackage the apk; it would not recognise the existence
of Marias3 in the route folder. He went over the intallation of MP3
over and again, to no avail. He finally re-installed MSTS, and the damned activity took off like a shot. Go figure. 3. Then there is the human (and we all are) factor. Another fellow I heard from could not get widow to run, and was getting a littany of error messages from MSTS. He later mentioned (thank god) that he had installed the Marias3 folder WITHIN the USA2 folder. (whew). And so it goes...Now get this; keeping in mind the problems imbedded in the initial
release; one guy from Austrailia worked the thng over with the editor tools and notepad, and had the sucker flying within 24 hours of first
availability. THAT fellow has my undying respect.My instincts tell me that subtle changes take place within the game
engine data files of a successfully installed copy of MSTS on any given computer over a period of time. These changes may be prompted by the source code to adapt to the constant additions and subtractions to its environment. New routes, new stock, deletions; normal housekeeping. My guess would be that over time, two identical installations of MSTS, even with identical rolling stock and consists, would become significantly different from another over a period of months, just through normal use. I wonder if a KUJU coder could corroberate that. Most often, all continues to work well, until you introduce something
new that doesn't mesh well with your copy of MSTS's current adaptations to its environment, causing MSTS to choke. Sometimes the only solution is to force the game code to re-examine its environment in detail and force it re-discover something it did not see in its
now well worn current set up. How else can one explain why the simple
(pain in the ass) reinstallation of MSTS often solves behavioral problems? Most people avoid this like a plague because it means that you must install (again) all your hundreds of favorite custom bells and whistles. And I admit wholeheartedly that one lousey activity may not be worth that effort.In the past, I've suggested loading the Widow activity file in the editor just to see if the editor chokes. (I'll assume you've already gone over the file with ROUTE CONTROL as suggested) If the editor does not choke, this is a fair sign that code content and pointers are not causing an apparent conflict. Re-packaging your copy of the apk file may (or may not) force the game tools to correct the problem, or choke on it, and identify the source.The tough part is that the problem may be external to the activity, and that no matter what you do to the activity itself, no solution will arrive at the doorstep with that approach. Then what it boils down to is, as you have said: What is one activity worth? Sooner or later there is always a solution; but is it worth your effort?Best wishes,

Yardlimit

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I downloaded Widowmaker version 1.2 and had the already noted problems
with the engine and wagon filenames. I fixed these and found that MSTS
was also looking for a file ta_NKP_50T_hop_loaded.s in Marias3\Shapes
folder and also for files H_BOGEY.ace, H_50T_1.ace and H_50T_2.ace all
in Marias3\Textures folder. I found copies of all of these in
ta_NKP_AlcoRS11 and copied them over into the requested Marias3
folders. This seemed to solve this problem.I don't know that it is related to these files or not, but I have also
found a problem in that after MSTS is happy with all of the file names,
it will hang when it gets to the end of loading unless I have
previously loaded what seems to be any other activity first, exit that
activity and then load Widowmaker. The hang is after the 'Initialization
and Loading Complete' progress message and seems to require a power
off/on to get out of the condition. Has anyone else seen this and does
anyone know the source of the problem?Bob

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After installing v1.2, then using Activity Analysis to find the bad folder names, then finding I needed to run the makehopper bat files in each of the 50T hoppers, I have it running.Using a P4 2.4gig machine with 1 gig of memory and ATI 8500 vid card, have frame rates of approx. 30fps no problems running at all.But do have a couple things of note:. See my activity analysis below, I finished the activity much faster then should be, thus the only AI traffic I see is the F7 passenger train a little ways out from Shelby. So I have used the activity editor and started the other AI's an hour or so earlier to make it more interesting. Current start times are:Widow_One = 07:30:00
Cutbank_AI = 08:09:00
Widow_AI = 09:23:00
Widow_Two = 12:26:00Do not know why I am completing the activity so early, have run it twice as supplied, and am currently running with the new AI start times, will see how they work out.The other is the Alco turbo sounds, they are great to me, but much to loud. I do not know why they are so loud, especially the cab sounds. If I turn the volume down to where it is easy on the ears, then I can not hear the normal outside sounds, such as grade crossings, etc. What is the best approach to lower the cab sounds.Thank You for a nice period type activity!Don
ACTIVITY: The Whitefish WidowmakerYou completed this Activity after 5 hours, 5 minutes and 20 seconds of driving.You've made it to Whitefish alive with a dangerously overloaded train.MINOR OPERATIONAL ERRORS:
You committed no minor operational errors.TIMETABLE ADHERENCE:
You did not fail to stop at any stations.
You were not late arriving at any stations.Station Milepost Arrival +/- Departure +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whitefish 1217.64 14:00:00 +00:00:00 00:00:00 -14:00:00Totals +00:00:00 -14:00:00
WORK ORDER ADHERENCE:
Task Status
--------------------------------------------------------------
Pick up cars Completed
Pick up cars Completed SPEED LIMIT ADHERENCE:
You didn't exceed the speed limit.IN-TRAIN FORCES:
Freight durability limits were met.

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The best time ever reported to me at which the player arrived on Whitefish siding #2 was about 1pm or so. The same person reported that he had been exceeding speed limits in some cases to achieve this.
There are few places you can exceed speed limits with this train in Marias Pass and not pile it up. This person was skilled indeed.
The best time I have ever arrived at siding #2 personally, was about 1:30pm. I usually make it about 13:45. There are two location event
triggers on that siding which judge whether you have fullfilled the
success criteria. The game had better not end before you reach one of these points. If it does, then that may mean these markers are no longer in their designed locations, and have been moved. I cant imagine why that would be, but the editor can confirm that -one way or the other. I can't imagine anyone finishing this thing over an hour and a half early unless one had modified the activity file to ignore speed limits at critical locations. Just my take based on extensive testing.As for the Alco sound issues; you're right, the cab files do play too loud. I have already corrected the 244 engine sound files to tone this down, and I will be doing the same with the turbo version.
My idea would be to upload them as a corrective update at some point.
For those of you that are handy with a sound editor like "Cool edit"
for example, you can diminish the interior engine wave file by about 10db. That should get you to an acceptable level. The outside levels I actually boosted a little. Its a matter of taste, but I agree that the interior engine level was a bit annoying and I think I have reached a good blend at this point.Best wishes,

Yardlimit

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I have made it to Whitefish about 12.25
Absolutely NOT exceeding of any speed limits.The only thing I have done which doesn't adhere with the plan was that I left the train on the main line while pickin up the additional waggons at Red Eagle(left the coal hoppers from Shelby on the main line, detached the locos, picked up the additional hoppers, pulled them out of the siding and drew back to assemble the whole train)However, there was one point where i had to do one porky thing. Between Blacktail and Java, there is a continuous descend(more near Java, not the steep descend down just at Blacktail). Well, at the beginning of descend, i was running 24 mph....set the brake to "continuous service" and enjoyed the ride....until i reached Java, my speed has decreased to about 16...after passing Java, there is a point, where the speed limit changes to 35. To this point, my speed has dropped to about 9 or 10...however, every brake release(even with an immediate brake application after) resulted in exceeding the speed limit. SO, to overcome this decrease in speed, i applied a bit of throttle, while having still the brake applied. Worked for me for not losing too much speed while still holding on the brake.I would be very glad if somebody tells me if there is another way to handle this thing without doing such "porky things". Had no problems with the rest of the activity however.Last but not least, I would like greatly to thank Yardlimit for putting the package together.Tommy

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Now that "Widow" for M3.1 is nearly done, I have revised my whole line of reasoning about completion time. When I began testing the new one, I too began to realise drasticly earlier compltion time thru throttle micromanagement. significant new changes are present in the new release; stay tuned...

Yardlimit

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