Loose consists & design philosphy ques

I am in the process of creating an activity which is going well, but
I need to get a few things in perspective. I'm not a total stranger to activity design, but this is my first crack at an MSTS simulation. My activity of course involves loose consists. During a recent computer "blow-up," which I won't go into, I lost a few of the con files which I had created to place these loose consists in the first place. Interestingly enough, when I re-loaded activity for further work, I realized that the loose consists which no longer had supporting con files were, nevertheless alive and well. Presumeably because the units on which they were based still resided in the Trains file section. So I began to question. Must such con files be available at all at the time an activity is packaged for upload? Could their absence lead to a problem later? Do designers sometimes place or modify loose consists car by car? What would be typical? Next, a design philosophy issue: this is a unique period activity, which combines elements of a story line, role playing, livery unique to its historic time frame, and an unusual and interesting problem to solve which might require several attempts; plus a delivery schedual that is tighter than a tick on a precariously overloaded train. This means that the livery is very specific, most of it from here, but a small portion of it, especially the engine, has had to come from sites which are well known, but not from this one. To further complicate the issue, the engine and a few of its elements were modified by myself to add realism, and whose function directly affects the activity. The engine is woven into the fabric of this design tighter than an $800.00 suit. You don't use this engine; the activity outcome and realism can dramatically change or fail. I may be forced to package it. The modifications alone, while childs play for many present here, will be beyond the scope of many users. Keeping these facts in mind, how do I make it as simple as possible for a user to gather together the elements of this activity, without destroying its unique appearance and behavior? --and give credit to all those whose creations have gone into this baby without p*****g anyone off? I am surely not the first to grapple with such issues. How would some of you more experienced designers approach these elements?

Yardlimit

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RE: loose consists & design philosphy ques., lnghairedwizard, Jul-01-02, 12:27 PM, (1) RE: loose consists & design philosphy ques., yardlimit, Jul-01-02, 01:59 PM, (3) RE: loose consists & design philosphy ques., kevarc, Jul-01-02, 12:47 PM, (2) RE: loose consists & design philosphy ques., yardlimit, Jul-01-02, 02:57 PM, (4) RE: loose consists & design philosphy ques., kevarc, Jul-01-02, 03:21 PM, (5) RE: loose consists & design philosphy ques., yardlimit, Jul-01-02, 05:23 PM, (6) RE: loose consists & design philosphy ques., yardlimit, Jul-01-02, 05:35 PM, (7)

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If what your saying is that the players engine needs to be a "Modified" one in order for the activity to play out the way you intended, than there is a fairly easy answer to that....Lets say Im using a conrail gp35 engine, but I modified the engine file to perform the way I want. I would tell the enduser(in the readme file) to download the conrail gp35 (give them the zipefile and the name of the folder as it appears under the trainset directory), then when I package my activity I would include a copy of MY engine file which will overwrite the original. this way, the enduser doesn't have to edit the engine file his/her self. depending how you package your activity, you could have the eng file unzip itself right to the proper folder.Longhairedwizard

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>If what your saying is that the players engine needs to be a
>"Modified" one in order for the activity to play out the way
>you intended, than there is a fairly easy answer to that....
>
>Lets say Im using a conrail gp35 engine, but I modified the
>engine file to perform the way I want. I would tell the
>enduser(in the readme file) to download the conrail gp35
>(give them the zipefile and the name of the folder as it
>appears under the trainset directory), then when I package
>my activity I would include a copy of MY engine file which
>will overwrite the original. this way, the enduser doesn't
>have to edit the engine file his/her self. depending how you
>package your activity, you could have the eng file unzip
>itself right to the proper folder.
>
>Longhairedwizard
Good point. This is the most workable solution I could envision. I have heard some resistance to the notion of packaging extras into an activity from European quarters, presumably because of concerns over download file size, but I don't think it would add much to the package, and honestly, I don't see how I can avoid it in this case.

Yardlimit

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Loose consists only exist in the activity file, so losing the con files will have no effect on that. Since the are only in the activity file you do not need to create consists.As far as modifying the eng file for the purposes of your activity. Before I would use one of these activities I would want to know why the eng file needed to be modified and if the engine is used in another activity, how would these changes effect it. The eng file makers have done a lot of work to get them as close to reality as MSTS lets them. Why would they need to be changed? I have modified my eng files with the latest physics upgrades, what other changes would need to be done?

Kevin Arceneaux

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>Loose consists only exist in the activity file, so losing
>the con files will have no effect on that. Since the are
>only in the activity file you do not need to create
>consists.
>
>As far as modifying the eng file for the purposes of your
>activity. Before I would use one of these activities I
>would want to know why the eng file needed to be modified
>and if the engine is used in another activity, how would
>these changes effect it. The eng file makers have done a
>lot of work to get them as close to reality as MSTS lets
>them. Why would they need to be changed? I have modified
>my eng files with the latest physics upgrades, what other
>changes would need to be done? You misunderstand. I'm quite on board with you when it comes to fiddling with engine physics. My feeling is that this part should be left untouched since folks have done far more research into this than I am likely to do. In this case the engine was carefully chosen for its existing physics, particularly horsepower, and time period relevance. Was WAS changed was the following:Cab design: I found a unique "beat up" cab, purpose built for just this engine model. (realism) Dynamic brake: -cvf coding was changed to remove the handle. (didn't work anyway) The units in my story line were manufactured without any. (creates a predicament which is woven into the story line)Sounds: The setup is actually four similar engines. But the *.eng and
*.sms files have been modified to address the helper engine sound file dilemma. (helpers seem to lope along in idle when the driver roars along at notch 8) Now the individual engines sounds accelerate and de-celerate in concert with little discrepancy. Code wise, the first engine is drivable, but the last three are helper/AI units. This has proven to have a significant positive effect on frame rate and performance overall. The technique and its benefits are discussed in topic 44 in the SOUND forum on this site. The neat thing about it is that all this stuff can be accomplished from within a single engine file folder. I also borrowed a robust sounding bell and horn from another source (same era) to reflect the sounds I heard from engines like this when I was a kid. Its old, and so am I. (more realism)So you see, this engine will behave as the modeler intended, its just
a whole lot more fun and functional for this activity now. I think you'll agree; many users will not be inclined to make these changes themselves just to facilitate an activity, so I'm trying to make it easy for them. "this ain't gonna be just yer fathers Oldsmobile."

And again, I will strongly encourage the user to back up the original engine, should he have it already, and not neccessarily consider mine a replacement for the original. (...some might like it better)

Yardlimit

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Got ya now, just wasn't clear in the original post. I have been messing around creating AI engines using the format used by MLT in Kicking Horse Pass to create AI engines for some of the engines on my system. I have noticed a difference in FPS, getting in the mid 40's to mid 50's using them.

Kevin Arceneaux

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>Got ya now, just wasn't clear in the original post. I have
>been messing around creating AI engines using the format
>used by MLT in Kicking Horse Pass to create AI engines for
>some of the engines on my system. I have noticed a
>difference in FPS, getting in the mid 40's to mid 50's using
>them. Ah yes... How I wish I could get frame rates like that pulling a frieght. I'm thrilled with 20. (chuckle)

Yardlimit

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I am grateful for these responses. This whole concept is gradually coming together. I still have much to learn, but what I have so far is functioning well. Perhaps the greatest concern I have is just the
task of gathering cars on the part of the user. Thats the only regrettable part about period activities. The good news is that in general, I'm finding what I need in abundance. The vast majority are available on this good site. I may revise the loose consists a little to minimise this task. Ultimately, a complete and accurate list will be provided.

Yardlimit

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