Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related

LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-03 AT 05:05 AM (EDT)

David,I was testing around a new route I'm in progress of building, and noticed that the TSECTION.DAT (original as well as standardized) lacks the CLEARANCEDIST values from switches.Basically, what this means? It means that once a train going through a facing-point turnout is clear of a switch piece (the object!), the opposing trailing-point route is cleared by the signal system.How I noticed it? An UP AC6000 knocked off the last Superliner of my Amtrak train while I was waiting in the hole at St. Josef, FBL!The ClearanceDist values are missing from all others except the default 2.5-degree switches.How to determine the values?Make a simple crossover of each switch object, then measure the distance between the red poles of opposing switches. For 10-degree default sections this is 60 metres, and 160 metres for the 5-degree switches. (I used 55 and 155 metres, respectively, due to signals being close the switches in most cases.)On another occasion it was really stupid to watch a passenger train going through a 5-degree switch, and have the signal to turn green in front of my nose while the last two coaches were still fouling the main!The ClearanceDist ( ) value prevents any occasion where a signal turns green while the other train might still be fouling the switch, thus effectively reducing side-on AI vs. Player collisions. It also looks more realistic from the signalling-point-of-view.I hope you include this in the next release of Standardized TSection.dat, and also make an updated default tsection.dat available. It is annoying to have cars flying around becouse of M$ oversight.Forogt one more thing: this ClearanceDist ( ) value does not have any effect to the ability to line a switch manually. It only has an effect on the signal system, making the HAL9000 a little less PITA.
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad

Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, geoffmayo, Jun-21-03, 05:21 AM, (1) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, tvrail, Jun-21-03, 05:26 AM, (2) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, geoffmayo, Jun-21-03, 08:17 AM, (3) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, tvrail, Jun-21-03, 12:48 PM, (4) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, davidbeach, Jun-21-03, 09:55 PM, (5) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, rgarber, Jun-21-03, 11:26 PM, (6) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, OkrasaGhia, Jun-22-03, 06:55 AM, (7) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, griffinmt, Jun-22-03, 09:03 AM, (8) RE: Attention David Beach - Global TSection.DAT Related, geoffmayo, Jun-22-03, 10:37 AM, (9)

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For a main-to-main crossover, should the clearance distance nbe *less* than the distance between the red poles, to prevent a train going past on the other main putting the signal back to red in front of you?Geoff M.

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-03 AT 05:29 AM (EDT)

It doesn't work that way. It has an effect only for the train making the diverging movement. (In English: it knows the direction where the switch is lined)
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad

Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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If we take an example of a single track main with a single switch, over which a preceeding train has just passed, but which then stops still fouling the crossover, the next train (yours) going over the switch in the *other* direction would therefore get a green light because the clearance point is no longer tested as the switch is lined in the other direction?If that is indeed the case, then no clearance point information is going to help as the AI train will *still* knock off your Superliner because the switch is lined in the other direction.Please tell me I'm wrong! I'm getting ready for a large BBQ (says he as the sun hides behind some clouds) so I can't test this theory today.Geoff M.

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Yes, you are wrong. The signal protecting the switch _will_ remain in red until the preceding train has completely cleared. After the train is no longer fouling the switch, another train gets a permissive indication.It doesn't matter wheter it is a crossover or a siding switch. And the switch won't get lined to the other direction until the first train is no longer fouling the switch/other route, thus the signal also remains at STOP.The signal _will_ remain in red until the last car of the preceding train is the defined distance away from the "red pole". Thus, if the distance is defined as 60 metres, and it is a 10-degree switch, the last car of the preceding train _must_ be clear before HAL9K allows any other trains in to the switch.I just wish I'd have the screenshots with me, since I'm not at my apartment in the city (where my PC is).
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad

Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-03 AT 09:55 PM (EDT)

Well, I'm really just the book keeper in this endeavor. I've not created any of the work, just kept track (no pun intended) of it.That said, I would welcome someone(s) doing the work and providing the necessary information and I will included it in a future build.David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed
Route Photo Map 100% Completed (Now, Can I make the Railroad Profile match the photo map?)

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00019.

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-03 AT 11:38 PM (EDT)

Could we get some 'plain english' clarification on this. Is what being said here is that folks with altered tsections are having a different set of results than those who are using the default tsection file?Rich Garberedit-- okay, having reread this better I see clearer what was being said. Basically the gist is we all need a revised tsection file. Cool, I could go for this too. rg

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I can volunteer for this, have already made it for my own switches it is no big deal adding it to other switches also.


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia/XTracks

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Out of general principle, and trusting all who describe how it works and its benefits, I think this would be a net improvement.However, we should also feel comfortable that it does NOT change the behaviour of some established routes, causing a different set of events to be thrust into activities that were not intended.Just an opinion,
Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com
http://www.geocities.com/tcmrrc/

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Ah, I see. Kuju did have *some* logic in their processes then! I bet they don't do flank protection though Geoff M.

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