Need help with signal that won't clear on converging ma
Started by ccyko7 posts8 min read
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Mains 1, and 2 converge at switch 2, with industrial trackage (in black) continuing along path of main2. I am trying to signal the line so that trains can cross over to main at switch 2 from main2 to proceed northward. The signals will correctly control the junction, as long as I do not place a signal north of switch 1. If any type of signal is placed north of switch 1 then signal B will not clear (have not tested signal C, since I am most concerned with using right hand running). I have tried both absolute and permissive signals in various combinations for all signals, and have tried using USA2 (Marias), and the 3 color light (RS-2) signals by Hank Sundermeyer. Does anyone know what to do about this signal configuration?See diagram below.....(edit: updated diagram to be clearer)
RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin, ccyko, Jun-21-03, 00:20 AM, (1) RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin, henry3, Jun-23-03, 02:33 PM, (2) RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin, Railfan727, Jun-24-03, 09:39 AM, (3) RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin, sniper297, Jun-24-03, 11:30 AM, (4) RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin, ccyko, Jun-25-03, 00:46 AM, (5) RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin, sniper297, Jun-25-03, 11:13 AM, (6)
RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin
LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-03 AT 00:24 AM (EDT)
update:Signal C will not clear either, but signals will clear if a train has not passed signal A southbound. After a train running southbound passes signal A, it seems that signals B, and C, are locked.-Chris
RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin
You'll want to use absolutes here. Make sure to link the heads to the exit paths.I would think that you would want to link head 2 of signal B to the crossover, and show a restricting indication on signal B when the switch is lined straight.If this still doesn't work, try signaling switch 1. You'll probably want a 2-head mast signal on the southbound side which shows restricting when the switch is lined diverging. You'll want a single-head mast signal (or a 2-head signal with the bottom head fixed red) on the northbound side on the main and a dwarf on the industrial trackage.
RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-03 AT 11:32 AM (EDT)
Looks to me like part of the problem is the switch configuration itself. Tracing from B to D I go thru the curved part of a lot of trailing point switches, and unless the path from one signal to the next is totally uninterrupted it will display red. Any trailing point switch set against is an automatic red. I got around that on the PO&N by using the searchlight dwarf signal from the North American switch stand and distant signal set, it has only two states, green and flashing yellow. Problem is that makes the next signal up the line show flashing yellow as the least restrictive indication unless there's a train in that block, so an approaching head on would go green, flashing yellow, red. You could also use some other type of signal setup to isolate the interlocking from the trailing point switch at the far end, but same result, if it don't read the switch position and show red when it traces a path to the switch set against, then it won't be tracing a path to the block beyond the switch when the switch is set for.So pretty much dealer's choice, you can either have that interlocking display the same indications independent of the trailing point switches at the other end by isolating it with "spacer" signals, or have it show flashing yellow/yellow/whatever when there's a train in the block beyond switch D, and show that same indication when the switch at D or any of the other trailing point curves are set against the path.If you're coming to Chicago any time this summer, burn it on a CD and bring it with you, we'll take a look at it together.
RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin
I may be in Chicago in late July, but for the time being I've worked around it by making signal B the last Northbound signal on the line. Since the line ends 2-3 miles North of here and is all single track, it doesn't affect it much, and have been treating all the other lines as such, with the last opposing signal being at the last junction. So far I haven't run into this again. Once/if I extend the line beyond this point, if I can't get it to clear at the next passing point, I'll bump this post again.I took the model of the Marias pass, and used signals mainly at mainline junctions, and on very long dark sections. This has seemed to work on other lines, spacing intervals 2-3 miles apart, and signaling all mainline junctions. I was trying to use the model of the NS line Memphis, TN to Sheffield, AL which seems to have a signal set around every major curve, which in this case was placing them at approx 1/2 mile intervals, which may have caused problems for the sim?I'm including a screenshot of the overall track diagram.-Chris
RE: need help with signal that won't clear on convergin
Hey, ya bum, that ain't Chicago Elevated 3! Quit playing around and get back to work! Seriously, I know what your thinking is since we talked about it before, but you oughtta at least download PO&N6 and poke around in the route editor to see what I did with signals. I'm working on cutting the number in half for PO&N7, but all of those places where there are signals spaced something like 10 ridiculous feet apart are to overcome the nonsensical limitations of the sim. The techdocs describe an "end of track" signal which doesn't exist, but needs something, since an interlocking signal (AKA "Nevergreen Tree") is always gonna display red (or red over red for a 2 head) unless a whole bunch of conditions are met. One is there has to be a currently active path thru the signal, so unless you made a double reverse point you go thru the signal once, it's green, back up past the signal and try to go forward thru it a second time, now it's red. Nobody threw a switch or dropped an invisible train in that block, it's just that the path has already been run, you don't get to run it again. Once that condidtion is met, it also has to be able to trace an uninterrupted path to another signal to show anything other than red. If it's the last signal before the end of the track and there are no other signals for it to trace a path to, it will always be red. I got around that with PO&N5 and 6 by using a whole bunch of interval signals in the yards, but now I got Hank's searchlight dwarf signal, a much better solution. The searchlight dwarf has flashing yellow as its most restrictive indication, so a switch set against or the end of the track means it will be flashing yellow, any interlock tracing a clear path to it will show green. Same thing with throwing a trailing point switch against the trace path of the interlocking. The signalnumclearahead value in the sigcfg.dat file does two things; 1. Specifies how many signals ahead of the train the path projects to wake up the 'sleeping" interlocks from their default red "at rest" state, and; 2. Specifies how many signals ahead of the train the path projects to throw switches for that path.It is possible to create a situation where you have an interlocking on a facing point switch, that interlocking is "tickled awake" by the advancing path ahead of the train, then that interlocking traces its path to the curved part of the trailing point switch. Auto switches also have an "at rest" state, they default to straight ahead, so that switch will be straight, the interlocking traces the signal path to the switch set against it, and stays red since it can't trace a path to the next signal. The path projection stops advancing until that interlocking displays something other than red over red, which it isn't gonna do, so the switch beyond it isn't gonna change. Catch 22. It looks to me like that's what you got here. Spacing makes a difference, if you look in Whitefish yard in Marias, as one example, there are single head interlockings not linked to anything just before each trailing point switch. Those are close enough to the trailing point that the advancing path will throw the switch in spite of the red signal, and then the signal turns green/yellow depending on what's beyond that.
