Large objects disappearing from certain angles

Hello,I am not sure if this is a modelling problem or a MSTS problem...I am building a very large station (500 metres+) as one big object. However, in Train Simulator driving as well as route building mode the object disappears as soon as you look away from it in a specific area (blue circle). If you change the viewing direction or move closer to the terminal there is no problem.I don't know what the reason for this might be, maybe because of the object axis (which is centered in the terminal building at the top)?Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, calr, Jun-19-03, 06:56 PM, (1) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, geoffmayo, Jun-20-03, 03:55 AM, (2) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, OkrasaGhia, Jun-20-03, 05:35 AM, (3) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, ronik24, Jun-20-03, 10:16 AM, (4) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, CPR_Malice_96th, Jun-20-03, 11:36 AM, (5) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, OkrasaGhia, Jun-20-03, 05:20 PM, (6) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, ronik24, Jun-20-03, 07:17 PM, (7) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, rpicardi1, Jun-20-03, 08:47 PM, (8) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, ronik24, Jun-20-03, 08:58 PM, (9) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, OkrasaGhia, Jun-21-03, 04:48 AM, (10) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, tvrail, Jun-21-03, 05:57 AM, (11) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, ronik24, Jun-21-03, 06:12 AM, (12) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, ronik24, Jun-21-03, 06:32 AM, (13) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, tvrail, Jun-21-03, 12:56 PM, (14) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, ronik24, Jun-21-03, 06:21 PM, (15) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, OkrasaGhia, Jun-22-03, 06:51 AM, (16) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, ronik24, Jun-22-03, 09:06 AM, (17) RE: Large objects disappearing from certain angles, CPR_Malice_96th, Jun-22-03, 09:54 AM, (18)

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You didn't say what modeling software you are using. I think the problem has to do with the location of the origin and possibly distance levels. If you have to do it as one object, shift the origin to the physical center of the object. You might be better off to split the object into logical parts. I am assuming this is a passenger station. Try making the building one object and the remaining parts as a second object.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
cal.rasmussen@verizon.netColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 80% Completed)

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The problem is the location of the origin and the distance of visibility. If you're at the terminal, you'd be only a few metres from the origin. But when you're at the platform ends you're about 500m from the origin and thus it disappears after a distance because MSTS thinks you're too far away to see it.I think the reference to looking away from the object causing it to disappear is because of the culling - "it's behind you!", so MSTS again thinks you cannot see it.Either split the object into several parts, increase the visibility, or move the origin.Geoff M.

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You are using TSM I can see. The problem is the same as with track sections or high towers built with TSM.
As stated it has to do with the origin not being in the center of the shape. TSM has an error when calculating the visibillity sphere for such objects (with high towers the problem is the height being the largest dimension). You can solve it by moving the origin to the center of the object, this affects object placement in RE. If that is not an option for you it can be solved by manually editing the .s file. When you have the uncompressed .s file there is a section at the beginning looking something like this:

volumes ( 1
vol_sphere (
vector ( 0 0.2625 5 ) 5.87005
)
)

Numbers will vary and you might have more than one 'vol_sphere'.
Thing is the number after the ')' should be about 1.1 times larger than the largest of the three numbers inside the parenthesis.
If you have more than one 'vector' it should be corrected for all of them.
MSTS uses these values to decide if the object is within view by making a circle around the object origin the size of that last number. If that is not within the view port of your screen the object is not drawn. Since your object has details outside of this sphere you get the vanishing effect.


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia/XTracks

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Hello,Thanks @all for your answers!However, I am not sure which value I should enter into the .s file...
Increasing the last value didn't have any effect, and there is also a negative number inside the brackets:volumes ( 1
vol_sphere (
vector ( 0 6.70578 -302.324 ) 632.5
)
)
Changing the axis is not really an option because the object is fitted accurately into the trackwork and it would take too long to place it again into the right spot. (at least as long as the .s stuff works... )Thanks again & waiting for a reply!Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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Thanks for the info.When I get home I can see if my CN tower will stop dissapearing !!LaterTim Kent
96th_Malice
" Power for You "

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It looks good though I'm a little curious about the negative number.
You could try increasing the number even more, only effect it should have is MSTS will try to draw it even though it does not need to.


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia/XTracks

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Hello,No, what I meant is that this is the number like it was... and the problem still persists even if the number is increased...Hope you can help me out!Thanks again!Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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Try this, Make an anchor from a three point poly. Since it only has one side, you can make it very small and flip the visable side so it can't be seen. Place the anchor equal distance and opposite of your longest point from your origin. Create your object. It will now display properly close up.I use this a lot for towers and some bridges.SRV Ron

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>Try this, Make an anchor from a three point poly. Since it
>only has one side, you can make it very small and flip the
>visable side so it can't be seen. Place the anchor equal
>distance and opposite of your longest point from your
>origin. Create your object. It will now display properly
>close up.
>
>I use this a lot for towers and some bridges.
>
>SRV Ron Thanks for the help, but again: no effect...Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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Well the last resort then is to remake the model with proper placement of the axis. You could at least try it with a copy to see that it is a solution. The view sphere entry from such a try might sheed some light on the above problem. By the way if you move the origin the repositioning of the model should not be that much of a problem, no rotation involved.


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia/XTracks

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involumes ( 1
vol_sphere (
vector ( 0 0.2625 5 ) 5.87005
)
)the vector ( x-value y-value z-value ) part defines the geometric center of the object, as measured from the outermost points of the object, and the values indicate the offset from the origo ( 0 0 0 ).The part after the first ) indicates the object radius from this object's geometric center point. Train Sim Modeler does not perform this part correctly, it consistently defines a radius that is too short.So the radius should be the total length of the object divided by 2, and then multiplied by 1.1.If you just multiply it by 1.1 you may not get the result you want.
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad

Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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Everything very nice, but putting the axis exactly at the center of the object and adjusting the volume sphere value again had one effect (actually adjusting the volume sphere value had no effect at all, no matter how large it was):Now exactly the same happens, only at the other (terminal) end! And it always starts at the same distance from the object center, like it was at the other end, no matter what the volume sphere value is (OK, when it's too small, the object doesn't appear at all, but starting from a certain number the effect of the volume sphere doesn't change anymore)...What can be done now?Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-03 AT 06:32 AM (EDT)

Now I centered the axis to minimize the effect. It seems like it is not symmetrical in both directions:It starts at about 160 m in z+ direction, but only at 430 m in z- direction. Sadly the object is still a little too large and about 10 m before you reach either end the effect starts which is not really acceptable (I didn't count in the terminal building, by end I mean the section where there are still tracks and which can be seen by the route player)...
Again, no effect of the volume sphere value...I would appreciate any ideas!Thanks again!Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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As the final resort:Try entering this in to the .S filevolumes ( 1
vol_sphere (
vector ( 0 0 0 ) 1500
)
)That ought to keep the darn (sorry ) station visible
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad

Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-03 AT 06:21 PM (EDT)

I am really sorry, but as already mentioned earlier, all these volume sphere values don't have any effect. I tried all of these, and now again... but no effect!Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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Might it be that MSTS does not handle these size objects correctly?
I've never heard of an object this large before.
Maybe you have to divide into smaller pieces?


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia/XTracks

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Hmmm, that's not that easy, because as you see the main platforms are one long part, only the platform ends and the terminal station are seperate objects, so there might not be that much difference...Greetings,
Roni

A Small World Route & Rolling Stock: http://ronaldus.com/asmallworld
IRFCA Indian Railways Train Simulator: http://www.irfca.org/~ronik/msts/ - Join Now!

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Adjusting the noted values worked for me & the CN towerThanks !!Tim Kent
96th_Malice
" Power for You "

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