Handling readme's Containing Personal Information

I received this email from Cal Rasmussen:
---------------
> Hi Mark
> I have just found your website, but not in the way you might expect.
> It was pointed out to me that if you do a Google search on your
> phone number in the form xxx-xxx-xxxx, it will display your
> name and address and then do a web search on the phone number.
>
> I entered my phone number and it did, indeed, show my name, address,
> email and pages of credits...from MSTS modeling projects. It took
> me awhile to figure out what was going on. I finally figured out
> that the Google search found my phone number in the credits section
> of your route which you have posted on your website.
>
> I am not complaining but rather pointing out how personal
> information can get propagated on the internet and how easy
> is to find such information.
>
> As for your posting the readme pages on your site, I have mixed
> feelings about that. I think you might have contacted the
> individuals involved for permission to do so. I am not
> asking you to remove anything but rather to consider the
> broader implications of what you have done.
> A lot of personal information is available, although
> not intentionally, through your website.
>
> I would like to recommend that you think about what you
> have done and then make a decision regarding what you want
> to do about it. I don't think that a lot of people know
> you have posted their readme's and I
> don't know how they would feel about it.
>
> I am going to leave to you to do what you think is right.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> Cal Rasmussen
> calr on train-sim.com)
---------------
Here is my reply
---------------
> Cal,
>
> Thanks for your email.
>
> My intention was only to give credit to you and the other
> developers who made all the objects that I used.
>
> I had not considered that the readme files would contain information
> that was sensitive.
>
> I expected that anyone who makes a readme understands that any
> information in it was going to be propagated all over the world.
>
> I know that I always fear putting my email address in my readme
> or on my web site but without that, no one could contact me.
>
> The one good thing about train-sim is that you need a username and
> password to access the library - might slow down any data
> harvesting program.
>
> I can certainly change the "Credits" readme on my web site to just
> list each developer that made objects that I use. My ZIPed route
> file still would have the complete readme.txt from each object
> developer and as many developers require that I include their
> readme when I used their objects.
>
> Do you think I should post a question on train-sim about how
> to handle this?
>
> (In the meantime, I am going to remove all phone numbers from
> the Credit readme.)
>
> Mark
---------------
Here is Cal's reply
---------------
> Thank you for getting back to me. As for posting the question
> on the forum, I think that might be a good idea. I thought about
> posting the question, myself, but I decided to wait to see
> if I heard from you.
>
> I didn't notice if there were any other phone numbers or addresses
> in the readme's. My email is in my forum signature as well as in
> my readme's. I was concerned that it might generate snare a bunch
> of trolls but it has not been a problem. I actually get very few TS
> related emails from people I don't know. I have gotten only one
> "hate" mail message. I think I caught that kid off guard when I
> responded in a very friendly manner and didn't echo his attitude
> back to him.
>
> Since the credits and readme's are included with your route, I'm not
> sure if there is a need to post them.
>
> I have not downloaded your route, yet. I have been extremely busy
> working on my Columbia Gorge route. I will download your route
> and give it a try. You are the first one that has confirmed
> inclusion of some of my objects. I would love to see what
> you did with them.
>
> I'm at work so had better stop. Good luck to you and as I said
> in my first message, I will trust you to do what you think is
> right. It is amazing how the internet has reduced the size
> of the world!
>
> Cal
---------------
---------------
---------------
Cal and I would like your opinion how information in the readme's should be handled.My web site is at http://www.silogic.com/SDA/SDA.htm
Click on "Credits" then click on "click here for all readme.txt files".

Mark DiVecchio
markd@san.rr.com
San Diego and Arizona Railway
http://www.silogic.com/SDA/SDA.htm

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RE: Handling readme's Containing Personal Information, smmille1, Apr-26-03, 11:08 PM, (1) RE: Handling readme's Containing Personal Information, mivone, Apr-26-03, 11:33 PM, (2) RE: Handling readme's Containing Personal Information, rpicardi1, Apr-27-03, 08:20 AM, (3) RE: Handling readme's Containing Personal Information, jleslie, Apr-27-03, 09:54 AM, (4) RE: Handling readme's Containing Personal Information, calr, Apr-27-03, 11:14 AM, (5) RE: Handling readme's Containing Personal Information, heffed, Apr-27-03, 04:23 PM, (6)

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For starters, you could use a robots.txt to tell search engines not to index certain things. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/appendix/notes.html#h-B.4.1

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I try to get permission from the author of each add-on I include in my uploaded packages, even if it is already described as freeware. This is partly courtesy. It also gives the author a chance to point out updates or features that I may have missed, and to place any restrictions, such as deleting or changing readme files.But it must be recognized that any information placed in a readme file or in any other readable form on the internet is ultimately uncontrollable. The whole idea of the internet is universal access to everything, the exact opposite of privacy.
Michael Vone
Step by Step Guide to Route Building for MSTS - http://trainsimulatorworld.com/catalog/b506.htm
Albula Line 2 Route
Arollercoaster Route
Rocky Islands Route
Cliff Hanger Route
http://avsim.com/hangar/utils/mvchallenges/

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It shows how public the Internet is becoming. And, very dangerous, is the privacy issue with the phone number search giving out an address - the stalker's dream. That's because a listed phone book is public record, but, finding an address with a phone number search was never the intent of a phone number listing.E-mail address being public? That's a choice to include such in a read me. It's usually a matter of public record as well although information, such as an actual address, is information known only to the provider. It's necessary if one is ever to be notified of any problem. However, If there is ever a problem of security or harassment, e-mail addresses can be easily changed or filtered to block the objectionable mail.If one is that concerned with security, they should never upload anything for use by the public.SRV Ron

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As a police officer, I go to great lengths to insure that my personal information is not public. For many things I use the address and phone number of my police department, and also my email there if I need to give something like that out to gain access to a website or something.If your phone number is in a phone directory, then your phone number is not personal private information, but rather public information, and I have no sympathy for anyone complaining about somebody getting their phone number through a readme file - don't put it there in the first place. There is no law that can protect that kind of dissemination of information.If you want your home phone number to not be accessed by the public, you can get either an UNLISTED or an UNPUBLISHED phone number. For instance, I have an UNPUBLISHED phone number, not UNLISTED. There is a big difference (although they both cost the same), and the difference is that an UNLISTED phone number can still be retrieved by directory assistance or with a criss-cross directory check (which is what the operator uses). A criss-cross directory is like a phone book, but it lists every address on a street (even vacant lots) and gives you the name and phone number of whoever lives there, even if they are unlisted. Unpublished numbers, however, will come back with "unavailable" for your address.I did a Google search for my phone number and it came back with:
Your search - xxx-xxx-xxxx - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "xxx-xxx-xxxx". Further, I did a search for my name and got 407,000 returns, and went several pages into it and never found any pages pertaining to me. I had to add the name of my hometown to the search, then I found me, but only in the first couple postings.If you have a computer connected to the internet, then there is always a possibility that somebody can access your system. If you make things in MSTS and post them to this website, then you are putting even more of your information up for the public to access.Did you know that using a credit card over the internet is actually more secure than using one in person in a store? Statistics show that the ratio of credit card thefts by consumers using internet based purchasing are thousands of times less likely than consumers using a credit card in a store. My point is that there is a great myth that using a credit card over the internet is like renting a billboard with the number on it, and the myth is false.The one thing we all have going for us is that there are millions of people, maybe even billions, using the internet and your chances of becoming a specific target are slim. You can be targeted at random and you can be bombarded by mass spamming simply because of your email domain, but you most likely will never be targeted specifically.I'm not worried about anybody I've put in prison finding me because I know that it would be difficult for them to access my personal info. Besides, that sort of thing only happens in the movies. If you become a paying member of a forum or make hundreds or thousands of posts on a public internet forum like Train-Sim, then you are bound to piss somebody off along the way, so expect to get a nasty gram every now and then. Deal with it, if it becomes a problem then there are things you can do about it.Bottom line - if you don't want people to have access to something, then don't put it on the internet.

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In reference to an incident several months ago when an individual posted an email from me without permission, in this case, Mark asked my permission and I granted it.I think all of this demonstrates, as has been said, nothing is private on the internet unless it is encrypted. Very few of us know how to do that. The world is "connected" now and you can find almost anything with a little perserverence.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
cal.rasmussen@verizon.netColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track completed, 60% scenery, learning 3D Canvas)

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Wait a sec...Someone doesn't want people knowing his phone number, but he's put it in a readme for (limited) distibution??I'm sorry, but this is pretzel logic here.The simple fact is, if you put personal information in a document and post it on the internet somewhere, (even somewhere with restricted access) it's considered published. People will find it.Simply put, if you don't want people having your personal info, then keep it personal. You probably aren't aware that unless you take steps, even connecting to the internet and visiting someone's website allows absolute strangers access to quite a surprising amount of info about yourself.Besides, if someone has malicious intent, all they need is your name. It doesn't take the internet to find out someone's personal info.-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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