Another glitch? on MP3.1,Maybe!

Hi all,I have installed the new mp3.1 route & while initially having my share of install problems like the rest, I finally thought I had sorted them all out. I ran a consist from Shelby to Whitefish with no problems whatsoever. I then thought I would run a consist from Whitefish to Shelby. All was going well until I reached mile post 1144.0 approaching Bison East from the Summit. The screen froze up but the sound continued on for a few seconds & then that went as well. I finally gave up & had to restart. I tried again & again same result. I find this is a little weird as it doesn't happen when I come from the other direction only from the Summit way.
If anyone has a thought on this little problem I would surely be greatful for your help. regards Tom

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RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, gatecityca, Dec-16-02, 06:17 PM, (1) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, MCNAMARA, Dec-16-02, 06:34 PM, (2) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, MCNAMARA, Dec-16-02, 08:45 PM, (3) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, bobs, Dec-16-02, 10:42 PM, (4) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, MCNAMARA, Dec-16-02, 11:24 PM, (5) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, kyleh24, Dec-16-02, 11:26 PM, (6) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, kevarc, Dec-16-02, 11:30 PM, (7) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, MCNAMARA, Dec-17-02, 00:31 AM, (8) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, Bing, Dec-17-02, 01:16 AM, (9) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, bobs, Dec-17-02, 01:56 AM, (10) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, Bing, Dec-17-02, 11:06 AM, (11) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, Stumbl, Dec-17-02, 11:16 AM, (12) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, Bing, Dec-17-02, 11:59 AM, (13) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, bobs, Dec-17-02, 01:13 PM, (15) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, MCNAMARA, Dec-18-02, 03:08 AM, (17) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, downside, Dec-17-02, 01:01 PM, (14) RE: Another glitch?? on MP3.1,Maybe!!, bobs, Dec-17-02, 01:17 PM, (16)

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Hey guys, what do you think, does this maybe sound like another switch placement problem?Tom, check to see if there are any swiches which are the last section of a track...a few members have said, and I have also found out the hard way, that if a switch is the last piece of track on a line, it will cause MSTS to crash. I was having the same problem you described, on another route I was working on. I ran fine one direction without any problems, but as soon as I tried to run a train in the reverse direction, MSTS would crash. I found out I had a switch at the south end of the line without anything else connected to it. I added a couple of 100m track sections and that took care of the problem. Runs fine now.Chris

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Chris,Thanks for the reply. When you say check for a switch at the end of a track section are you talking about at Shelby & or Whitefish or at Bison? Sorry if I appear a bit dense but I know nothing about tracks either laying them or removing them.Thanks Tom

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Hi,Just to add to my previous post above.Really weird stuff happening with this section track at Bison (scratching head). I tried to go through this area again (Summit to Glacier Park) & found I could as long as the camera view (view 2) was not facing directly ahead of the engine. I went through with the view looking at the engine side on (both sides) & facing to the rear of the train. It appears any view is ok as long as I'm not looking directly over the top of the engine up the track as I go past mile post 1144.0.regards Tom

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Tom, I've found the problem.It is caused by a bug in the FFEditc utility which, among other things, is supposed to be able to unpack a packed world file correctly. It corrupts them instead. I thought I had found all of these and fixed them, but two have surfaced since I released MP3.1. Oddly enough, the route editor also unpacks packed world files, but it does it correctly. The severity of the problem depends, as you saw, on your camera angle, and probably on the sensitivity you have set on your options as to how far ahead you display objects. Sometimes MSTS won't blow up, but you'll see objects flying by, upside down, overhead. Other times, it calls home.I'm attaching a file to this note. Unzip it, place the exe in the route directory, and run it, just like you ran the 7 install steps. It will replace two world files that were corrupted, as well as a add a couple of ace and shape files that seem to be missing too.I will also upload this fix to train-sim.
Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.1

Attachments
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dfe9ce34bd0d958.zip

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-02 AT 11:26 PM (EST)

Bob,Many thanks Bob. I will chuck it in & see what happens. Thanks for upgrading this route from ver3 (aside from the few niggles), it is a much better route overall.Also thanks for taking the time fix these little niggles for us. Keep up the good work & merry xmas to you.regards Tom McNamaraps: Bob I couldn't download your fix. I'm getting the "old" doesn't appear to be a valid archive message??

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I can't get the zip to open. It says corrupted. I have tried downloading it again with the same results. Is the size really supposed to be 92kb? Thanks, KH

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-02 AT 11:31 PM (EST)

Bob, I downloaded this and got corrupted file, that there were no files in it. It showed a 91k DL, but nothing in it. weird.Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-02 AT 00:38 AM (EST)

Hi Bob,Same as the other guys Bob.I tried to download it again still no luck. Tom

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-02 AT 01:24 AM (EST)

OK, here we go.1) The fix file is corrupted, it downloads as a zip but when it opens nothing is inside (I did get it to open once).2) While some users have a problem at milepost 1144, direction of Summit to Glacier Park, I don't. No problem at all. I went back and ran my train through the section three more times, each time in View 2, right above the engine, viewing the track straight ahead. Third time I was so close the exhaust smoke was choking me. As we used to say about Camel cigarettes "Not a cough in a carload!", or was that Lucky Strikes? No matter. I simply do not have the problem. This might be due to the fact I haven't edited anything within my current MSTS installation, but that is just a guess. Also, Xtracks is a "virgin" installation, maybe that means something, maybe not. Bottom line: Graphically speaking, Marias31 is solid. I find a few grass terrain tiles on the track in the mountain area and in one place over a vehicular road, but I see that in most routes. I do not get the weird graphic events some users have. In fact, the graphics are downright superb in the mountains. Beautiful.3) I ran my test train, which is 4 X DD40X + 60 X USGrainCar for the tests, all the way from Whitefish to Shelby. Couplers and buffer force have been beefed up, due to the Cut Bank Crossover Curse. For the above, at milepost 1144, there was no effect of any kind, no bump and grind, just a smooth uneventful ride.4) Cut Bank is the same old story when running Shelby-Whitefish. The other way - Whitefish to Shelby - not a problem and I ran through Cut Bank town twice, once on each of the double tracks, smooth as silk.5) Shelby to Whitefish, at the infamous Cut Bank Crossover: "Lady of Spain" all the way (accordion effect). In fact, Marias31 appears to actually be worse than MP3. No question that if I had not been running a "fixed" train it would have uncoupled and quite likely derailed in the process. At legal speed the cars were whizzing back and forth like a pinball between two action bumpers, bangity-bangity-bang - one way to reduce the visual effect is to go through town at about 70 mph, making the effect less noticeable. Somebody said "bounding box", I tried that fix but the Cut Bank Curse got me anyway, so I used brute force optimiaztion: Get a bigger hammer. Somebody said it is unrealistic to increase coupler strength and buffer force all out of proportion. I agree. It is also unrealistic to have a perfectly good train, on flat level track, in the middle of a dry day suddenly uncouple itself at the same exact place every time. About as unrealistic as anything I have seen, so I don't feel bad about my "unrealistic" fix. What it means is all traffic outbound from Shelby will have to be fixed OR take the left hand track at Cut Bank - doing so avoids the crossover. But ... could really screw up an activity if an AI train is coming from the other direction, because the turnouts would have been manually activated, which I understand is the kiss of death. You win some, you lose some, like the New England Pats. I love Marias31 and don't mind fixing the rolling stock. BTW, I have seen the same thing happen on other routes, at bridge approaches and sometimes in the middle of nowhere. There was a Swedish route where the cars would jump straight up in the air before they uncoupled-derailed. I'll download the fix when Bob gets a zip file to work - will wait for the library version, just to have it, sort of like a fire axe: "Break glass only in case of emergency". Being Welsh and persistent has its uses. I wouldn't give up on Marias 3 and the same goes for Marias 31 - there are about thirty minutes of scenery up around Summit that is better than anything I've seen from a computer simulation. Sometimes we have to suffer for our art - but its worth it, you bet it is.Thanks again to everyone involved in the making of a great route, if I can help in any way just let me know.Bing

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I just tried downloading what I uploaded and I get the same thing...an empty archive. Something must have corrupted it. I've also uploaded it to Train-sim and is should be there tomorrow. Hopefully that one will be OK.About the graphics glitch around Bison...it is a real problem, but not everyone will see it. I believe it depends on how far away you have your system set to show detail (it is in your options), the resolution on your display, the direction you have the camera pointed, and maybe one or two other things. I myself didn't see the problem running through Bison. But, in the route editor, if I go snooping to the south, I am able to find trees that disappear, depending on my approach angle, and that is the sign of the bug. Same thing east of Whitefish. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two more of these are found before all is said and done.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.1

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-02 AT 11:08 AM (EST)

I wonder if the Bison bug has something to do with shadows or specular lighting. I have the distance cranked to maximum, 2000 IIRC and run at 1280 X 1024 X 32. But I don't have shadows or specular lighting enabled. I tried a lot of different angle and zoom settings going through Bison, there just isn't a problem. Elsewhere on the route and occasionally I will see a tree that seems to float a scale foot or two off the ground. This is rare in Marias3/31, not so rare in routes from other developers. No idea what causes it. The only other graphics "glitch" I have seen thus far in Marias31 is a small blank tile - pure white - at the base of a tunnel entrance. This is also rare in Marias3/31 while a prominent feature of other routes - I have one route where an entire line of trees has been placed INSIDE the tunnel, you run the train through it and exit to daylight and regular scenery. The only other aberration I have seen in Marias has apparently been crried over - the diesel loco is still parked with the autos at WHitefish station. Does that engine driver drink a lot?Bing

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LOL , hiya Bing.I believe that loco is there as a display.

"I do what my Rice Krispies tell me to do"

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Beg pardon: I am running TS at 1600 X 1200 X 32, quality settings maxed for this and the other "quality" items, 2000 m distance, eased off a bit on the error threshold, no specular lighting and no shadows of any kind.Library now has MP31fix1.zip - downloaded it and did a "dry run" in an empty directory, it installs perfectly.Question: If the platform ace files didn't get into the marias31 route files, where would the lack of them beccome apparent? Whitefish, maybe? That is the loneliest yard I've ever visited, one day I am going to decorate it.Stumbl - Isn't a Section Something-Or-Other about a loco driver drinking on the job? Display with no track under the loco? At least I didn't see any - I know of hostlers who put a loco on the ground, it happened more than once, but this one is a long way from a piece of track. I think the driver just got thirsty, as a result had to go to the bathroom and this particular model doesn't have an onboard head. If this were Chicago and he left the motor running and the doors unlocked, well, it wouldn't be there when he came back.Bing

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I have specular lighting turned off, but shadows are turned on, but not detailed shadows. Who knows? I do know though that there really is a problem with the tile near Bison, whether you see it or not The trees you see floating are simply objects placed above ground level. There are many possible reasons for that. The error in the tile causes objects, not just trees, to float, upside down, over your head, and the move in the opposite direction from the train. Then they disappear. If you aren't seeing this, great! But some people will.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.1

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Hi BobI installed the patch as you suggested and it appears to work fine. I had no problems at Bison (mile post 1144.0)heading toward Glacier Park. So many thanks for firstly finding the problem & secondly posting the patch. I can now get on & enjoy this fine route.regards Tom McNamara

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Problem sorted with bobs file. Simply alter the extension from .zip to .exe and it will work perfectly.For those who have bunged the original in the bin already I have attached it in a zip file (hope this is OK with bobs). Make sure you set the path correctly - there is no need to put it into the route folder.Bill

Attachments
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dff6678695ed2e8.zip

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I'll bet I checked the wrong box when I posted it. As for the wayward loco, if you visit Whitefish you will see it is actually there, next to the depot building. I don't know if it is on track or not, but if it is, it is dead end at both ends. It is painted in Northern Pacific colors and represents the RR heritage of the area, and the depot.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.1

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