Roads (*@&#^$%) question?

LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-02 AT 03:42 PM (EDT)

There is an Interstate freeway (I-84) on the South side of the Columbia River which parallels the UP track. On the North side, Washington State Route 14 roughly parallels the BNSF track. There are way too many miles of road to use car spawners everywhere.If I use standard road objects to build the roads to take advantage of alignment and connecting characteristics, can I subsequently delete the .rdb file and let these roads serve as scenery only? I know that the graphic part of the roads and trackage is stored in the world files. I also know that a tdb rebuild would replace the .rdb file and probably nuke the entire route!I have seen that if I restore an older copy of the .tdb file which doesn't have the latest track sections in it, in RE, that area of track shows with no tdb line above it. However, simply selecting and deselecting one of these track sections causes it to be inserted into the tdb.In the long term, I think I am inviting trouble but I don't relish putting in over a hundred miles of road as scenery objects!Comments, good and bad, welcome!
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, griffinmt, Oct-28-02, 04:11 PM, (1) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, IcyFire, Oct-28-02, 04:13 PM, (2) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, Transcon, Oct-28-02, 07:55 PM, (5) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, IcyFire, Oct-29-02, 01:34 PM, (9) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, Interborough, Oct-31-02, 10:14 PM, (19) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, calr, Nov-01-02, 11:03 AM, (20) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, LawrenceKellie, Nov-01-02, 11:36 AM, (22) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, MikeA, Nov-01-02, 11:52 AM, (24) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, MikeA, Nov-01-02, 11:46 AM, (23) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, JohnCS, Oct-28-02, 06:43 PM, (3) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, calr, Oct-28-02, 06:48 PM, (4) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, JohnCS, Oct-28-02, 08:44 PM, (6) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, henry3, Oct-29-02, 11:16 AM, (7) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, calr, Oct-29-02, 12:23 PM, (8) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, robertreedy, Oct-29-02, 03:01 PM, (10) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, calr, Oct-29-02, 05:55 PM, (11) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, robertreedy, Oct-29-02, 09:11 PM, (12) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, ricksan, Oct-30-02, 01:34 PM, (13) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, calr, Oct-30-02, 01:48 PM, (14) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, griffinmt, Oct-30-02, 02:49 PM, (15) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, Lone_Gunman_SG, Oct-30-02, 10:37 PM, (16) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, jkcooney, Oct-30-02, 10:49 PM, (17) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, griffinmt, Oct-30-02, 11:19 PM, (18) RE: Roads (*@&#^$%) question??, calr, Nov-01-02, 11:04 AM, (21)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Cal,The issue with what you propose is the way in which these objects are defined in the world tiles.The way you propose, these would be entered as TrackObj entities (this is what causes rebuilds to work). What you really want is for them to be Static objects in the world tiles.There is a conflict for having the road names (shape file names) the same for the real road and the static variant, and it may also have to do with 'shortcuts' taken for rebuilds etc. Otherwise you could 'simply' (easy to say!!) just alter those trackobj entries into static entries. But I suspect you will need to also chamge the .s file name.Try this:
-For every piece of road you use, copy the .S and .SD files, renaming with an X at the end of the name (edit the .SD file too)
-Put these as entries in the .ref
-Lay the normal track as you described
-Edit the .W files to make them static and set the filename to the X version
-Don't delete the tdb (if you have ANY other real car roads)
-Restart with a rebuild and cross fingers.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I-84 eh? There's a I-84 around here! (ny state)
Coming Soon: 2.53GHz, 1gig DDR Ram, ATI radeon 9700, All projects stoped until I get that system Built (3~4 weeks most)

Shawn "Icy-Fire" Kenselaar
ShawnSSK@Yahoo.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>I-84 eh? There's a I-84 around here! (ny state) Are you sure about that? I-84 starts nearby Salt Lake City, goes through Boise, ID, and ends in Portland, OR.
------------------------------------------------------------I'll never let go of the railroad that inspired me to be involved with trains, the Union Pacific!John Ekhoff
14 yr. old Train Sim Reskinner from Abilene, Texas.A member of the Yonder Locomotive Works.

AOL IM - FlightSimPilot02
E-mail - FlightSimPilot02@aol.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

see for yourselfhttp://www.mapblast.com/myblastd/navmap.d?MA=PN&E=KWUZtv1foXlJoCR56k910n7jS89KW3D8elt667ffWuUqPpvRjdPvywRnOelLahV-jzkx1nuS5Gd2lLbkUxY6UtuRTDDpS25FMgKbjz0g_fHN_1Ly8XNKW3IpnQxWVpS25MMBisrSltyYSfy4Kbjz0g_fHN_6UtuRD4ngPWlLbkQ_O08B60pbclv1foDeLmlLbkvpPIdKW2j5gPS29ddvvrXKVH03oxun39KW2u349GnpS22-V_heUmgPOTHkPwmlyM3NahV-jdmSnOx7rnOPutrt_Mb5tbb9X6F5SaApdx6S6l3Zofcz0nes5mfbCuBXaL5T-vZS-Z7-k-EpZS9xSR3D8elt6gaPuHUpUfTYIxmX7LBGc57kUxY7kUww7kUyApuPPSD58c37UvLxc3IpnQxWVqUJu-dk4D0tvXXb761ylR9N6Mbp9_WN_cu0fMB6W3rrt99a5So_m9GN0_-tHzB3avCw5EPmHxiDJV7ySvl5AdLx67f0j1THXVxTz-UvnE25dOMefZF-S8Y7ceRgTM_XxTUC8d1ES5GeBMw&MAP.x=290&MAP.y=62worlds largest URL!
Coming Soon: 2.53GHz, 1gig DDR Ram, ATI radeon 9700, All projects stoped until I get that system Built (3~4 weeks most)

Shawn "Icy-Fire" Kenselaar
ShawnSSK@Yahoo.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

All I know is that there are 2 I84s: one that you mentioned and one that starts in Hartford, CT, crosses the Hudson at Beacon/Newburgh after passing through Danbury, CT. It ends somewhere in PA.

John

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

It is not unusual for different segments of the Interstate highway system to have the same number, especially the 3-digit connecting or bypass routes. There is an I405 in Portland, OR, as well as one in Los Angeles. There are probably others. If there is a general alignment East/West or North/South between segments, they will probably have the same number.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 90% complete. Scenery about 5%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

There is a pattern to interstate road numbering.For main highways, the numbers are one or two digits. If the number is odd, the route is considered to be north/south. If the number is even, the route is considered to be east/west. In this case of I84, I would suspect that those two pieces of roadway could be considered segments of the same Interstate highway.For three digit numbers, they are "supportive" routes off a main highway. The last two digits designate the route which they support. Interstate 5 travels through both Seattle and Portland. Both locations also have an I405. These are not considered "segments" of the same route, as the above states for I84.For three digit numbers, the first digit tells what "kind" of supportive route it is: "Siding" or "Spur." If the number is even, it is a "siding" type of supportive route. In other words, it circles around connecting at both ends to the main route. Both I405s in Seattle and Portland do just that. Portland also has an I205.If the first digit is odd, then it is a "spur." In Tacoma, Washington, I believe there is an I705. "Spurs" start at the main route and just end, no attachment to the main route on the ending end.At least, that is what I remember the numbering meant.Lawrence

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Your "Spur" and "Siding" explanations are excellent, Lawrence, and within them, I-275 falls neatly according to Hoyle.Mike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

You are correct, Cal 'tho I've rarely seen a primary 2-digit so broken-up.My general knowledge of Interstate numbering.1. Low even numbers start in the Southeast (I-4)
2. Low Odd numbers start in the Northwest.
3. This is opposite the US-HWY numbering system.
4. Even numbers run, for the long haul, East/West
5. Odd Numbers run, for the long haul, North/South
6. Loops carry 3-digits, the final two, the associated primary Interstate.
7. If the primary Interstate misses the center city, and the loop leads there, it is usually an odd number i.e., I-375
8. If the primary Interstate passes through town, and the loop is a by-pass, it carries an even first digit i.e., I-255.These rules hold generally true, even though there are exceptions such as I-275 near Tampa, which, although a loop, picks-up two cities (Tampa & St. Pete) before rejoining its parent, I-75.Or something like that . . .Mike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes, you can delete the rdb and any roads you've already placed will remain there quite content. However, the sim dynamically adjusts the terrain bias higher in the area of a track or road database vector so you'll see alot more terrain spillover.My question is why do you care? Just because there's a road vector there doesn't mean it has to get a spawner. And I've never seen any demonstration that the presence of the road database has any notable impact on framerates.

JohnCS
dem_ex@hotmail.com
visit the DEMEX website:
http://www.dem-ex.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I thought, although I may be wrong, that deleting the rdb would minimize the potential for problems when I begin laying track in phase 2.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Roads corrupt the rdb and tracks corrupt the tdb, and neer the train shall meet. <sic>

JohnCS
dem_ex@hotmail.com
visit the DEMEX website:
http://www.dem-ex.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal,You may have already looked at this, but I'll ask anyway. Have you looked at the "Dumb" roads that were uploaded to the library awhile back?Henry

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes, I have and I have installed some around The Dalles Dam. I will probably use a combination of dumb roads and terrtex roads for streets and roads in towns. However for the main highways like I84 and SR14, it's a lot of work to link and position each individual section. That's why I wanted to take advantage of the auto-connect and terrain adjustment features of the live road sections. However, I want to minimize the possibility of corruption when I proceed onward to phase 2 (Hood River to Portland). I plan to fullly develop phase 1 (roads, scenery, platforms, names, mileposts, etc.) before going on. I backup after every couple hours of work, and I keep at least ten backups on hand. Consequently, I am prepared for contingencies. Unfortunately, tdb and rdb problems sometimes don't show symptoms for several weeks after the causitive incident.Bottom line, I am trying to be as cautious as I can and still get some work done!Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal, contrary to belief, I've done three different additions (probably 120 miles) to my route with roads/carspawners, etc., already there and have never had a problem with any rdb conflicts. tdb's are another story, but being careful, deliberate and keeping backups will get you through it. The only problems I've had with my route were of my own doing (either ignorance or deliberate), knowing I was asking for problems, but did it anyway.Just another opinion.

RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

That has been pretty much my experience also. Save every couple of track sections or when moving to a different tile. I keep about 4-6 winzip backups online and rotate through 7 CD-RW disks. Every 10th backup, I burn to a CD-R disk. All this still doesn't stop me from making stupid mistakes like saving with something selected. BTW I have made an observation that may be significant...maybe not. Normally, when doing a save, it asks "Save World Placement Changes?" and "Save Terrain Changes?". It appears that if something is selected, another prompt comes up something like "????4?4.sd?". The last time this happened, I answered no.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I also get that if/when I'm running low on resources and it's about to go down. I always thought it was overwriting something in my video memory because things really get 'psychedelic' shortly afterwards for me, necessitating a complete reboot. Ya gotta just love the RE for all its peculiar little traits. It is one unique piece of software for sure (thank goodness)

RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal,Off subject. Did you happen to catch this item...http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/13565.htmlI was wondering if the Columbia Gorge route you're developing will extend as far west as Portland. If so, would something like this be useful?Rick Grout
Bandon, OR

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Phase 1 goes from Wishram-Celilo area West to Hood River. Phase 2 will go from Hood River to at least Troutdale/Vancouver. I am considering including the Mt. Hood RR branch as part of phase 2 or possibly as a completely separate route. In any case, I don't plan to extend into downtown Portland.That model of Portland Union Station is looking great. I had to look twice to see if it was a photo. I've been in the station many times and have taken a lot of photos all around the outside. Ironically, the photos were not taken for MSTS. They were taken for artistic content. My other hobby is photography.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-02 AT 02:50 PM (EST)

Further to my previous post on making roads static, I just did this myself for a mountain route I am working on.
The case just happens to be all in one tile, but can be applied all over.If you have existing ROADS elsewhere, make a copy of the routes .rdb and .rit as they stand.Apply all of the roads as needed.Edit the .W file that contains them as follows (for each piece of road):
- Change the entry from TrackObj to Static
- remove the following four parameter lines:
Sectionidx
Collideflags
Staticflags
StaticDetailLevel
-Save the .W tile(s)Copy the .S and .SD files for the road pieces into your routes Shapes folder.Restore the backed up .rdb and .rit files, or just delete and rebuild them.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

you sure about them car spawners? i think if you put a new one at the end of one that cant stretch any farther, it should make the cars follow. (dunno i havent tested it yet)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

A while back on this site were posted "Dumbtracks" and Dumbroads files which allow us to place roads and tracks as dummies without the necessary complications. Maybe a search of the files could answer your questions.
Joe Cooney, Ocala, FL

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I think that Cal understands that, and they do not satisfy his needs, as explained previously.He wants to be able to create roads with all the tools available for laying any normal track or road, including capabilities for elevating, adjusting terrain ( Y ), snap connecting to previous road piece etc. The dumb tracks are just that - DUMB. They can't satisfy those needs.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

That is correct, Martyn. I want to use regular rdb roads for the main highways. However, I will use dumb roads and terrtex roads for towns and side roads.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 90% complete. Scenery about 5%)

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.