Flashing water with no dynamic track

Although other trains do not cause a problem, when I run the Cumbres Pass standard RGS 11 double header around Yankee Doodle Lake on my Rollins Pass route, I get flashing water even though I made a point of having no dynamic track anywhere around. I thought flashing water relates only to dynamic track. Is there another explanation? Photo below.The second picture below is a shot of a K36 train climbing up the second rung of the Giant's Ladder, with the first rung showing below. I have not yet cleaned up the terrain patches on the tracks.

Don

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RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, calr, Oct-28-02, 01:37 PM, (1) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, griffinmt, Oct-28-02, 01:41 PM, (2) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, calr, Oct-28-02, 03:12 PM, (5) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, griffinmt, Oct-28-02, 04:21 PM, (6) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, Tree Frog, Oct-28-02, 02:43 PM, (4) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, jonathanmlewisrgs, Oct-28-02, 02:35 PM, (3) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, dwkarch, Oct-28-02, 05:53 PM, (7) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, sniper297, Oct-28-02, 07:59 PM, (8) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, patm41, Oct-28-02, 08:30 PM, (9) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, calr, Oct-28-02, 09:45 PM, (10) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, patm41, Oct-28-02, 09:48 PM, (11) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, Tree Frog, Oct-28-02, 09:52 PM, (12) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, sniper297, Oct-29-02, 00:33 AM, (13) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, Tree Frog, Oct-29-02, 10:35 AM, (14) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, markhyams, Oct-29-02, 10:44 PM, (15) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, mivone, Oct-30-02, 10:17 PM, (17) RE: Flashing water with no dynamic track, OkrasaGhia, Oct-30-02, 05:02 AM, (16)

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I have been getting flashing water from day one on Columbia Gorge. An interesting note, however, the flashing is only visble from external views. The cabview is fine. I see this in several different locomotives.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

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Cal,Try creating a large plane with several transparent sections on it. Set each transp section to a different type. Then lay it just above the water and see if any of the transp sections stop the flickering (or makes it worse).Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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Martyn, I am not sure what you mean when you said set each layer to a different type. However, even if it worked, at least half of my route is water! It would not be practical to place a layered transparent object over the entire river.Another thought occurred to me. Drawing on your idea, would it be possible to add another layer (or more) on top of watertop.ace in the env files. The file structure is fairly straight forward. If this was a transparent layer, would it achieve the same effect as placing a transparent object over the water?Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

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I was just suggesting this on the GUESS it has something to do with handling one or more of the vaious types of transparencies (AlphaNorm, AlphaTrans etc). If you found that different types gave differeng (and improved) results, it would be the first step to resolving the issue as a whole.It may be appropriate to change the alpha types on the specific engine(s) or wagon(s), or perhaps with the water itself.Worst case would be to add another layer to the water I suppose.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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Don and Cal,Flashing water. &%$@& I have water everywhere in my route and the flashing drives me nuts. It is my understanding that animation causes the water to flash. That would explain no flashing in the cabview because the animated (turning) wheels can't be seen.Jeff Bush is the resident expert on flashing water and I am hopeful that he will find a solution, however this appears to be a hard coded bug. Jeff is currently finishing an exciting project, then maybe he can get back on the water problem.Bill Burnett

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I thought that the speed limit was 35mph not 80.But anway i sometimes does because it does it the Rio Grande Southern Route I am making. I given up with the water tool but I am going to paint a object of some sort blue and use that as my water.You do know that RGS number 11 has got the wrong logo it the tender Tom Price has not even seen a photo of the engine he out it the colours he thought it was it and that is he same with the RGS shay and the 4-4-0. I have only seen one photo of it. That is why I have done my own repaints. I will e-mail you RGS No.22 if you want it.
I am making the Rio Grande Southern Route.Jonathanwww.rgs.5u.com

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CORRECTION: The second picture is heading up the 3rd rung of the ladder, not the second.

Don

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Just to clear up some confusion, the movement of the wheels is what gives you the flashing effect. The larger diameter wheels, like on steamers, especially with complicated alpha transparencies, gives a more noticeable effect from more viewing angles, but all the wheels do it.
The flashing from the wheels is a light/dark/light/dark effect, the dynamic track too close to water turns the water actually white, even when the train is standing still, or when there is no train like in the route editor.

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sorry Sniper but thats not true,, the maglev trains and my monorail
have no moving parts no wheels at all and the water still flashes,, but not so when i use my custom watertop ace file. it just gives the appearance of moving water ,, no animation used..there must be something else that causes it
Patm41

Maglev Route Designer
Casino Express

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Pat, I am using your watertop.ace file and it flashes very nicely (badly!).Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track about 80% complete. Scenery about 5%)

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-02 AT 09:53 PM (EST)

see ya should be running those maglevs it wont flash
but i have been running another route that has 2 large rivers
many many times with out the flashing using small trains that are not detailed.... some where there must be a connection... Patm41

Maglev Route Designer
Casino Express

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Jim,I am using more and more dynamic track close to water and I haven't seen that white water, just plenty of flashing.Bill Burnett

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Lawrence once asked "how close is too close", never got an answer cuz I don't think anyone ever seriously researched it. That one I just redid the whole section with snap track, using the dynamic track away from the river for the final connection. It's gone now anyway, the original Chippewa Falls that got moved over to the new quad in V4, but in West Ogden there's a section of dynamic track close to the water that's been there since version 1 with no changes, never turned white.Pat, that's too wierd for words. Maybe it's movement or something, but the standard accepted theory has always been that the flashing is tied to wheels, cuz even with the sound disabled it pulses with each half or quarter rotation of the wheels of the car or engine in the field of view.
Hmm. Well, at least it did, I just now checked to see if it was half or quarter rotation, and now I don't get any flashing at all. I got anisotropic filtering enabled the last few weeks, maybe that's a factor. Have to shut that off and try it again.

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Jim,I think you water turned white because it froze. Not going to happen in Sea View. Jeff Bush has worked a lot on solving the flashing water problem. He is now close to finishing his exciting environmental project. Then, it is my hope that he will dig in and find a solution the the flashing water problem.Bill Burnett

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I recall seeing a thread a while back that it was the animation of the water itself that causes the flashing. The fix was to change some of the code in the .env files to make the top level of water un-animated. I don't remember the exact fix, but I believe Michael Vone came up with it (forgive me if I'm mistaken). I messed around with it a bit and it seemed to work, although I did not test it rigorously.

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I wish I had solved it! I think you are refering to an idea of Jeff Bush, but that was a guess rather than a fix.Michael Vone
Step by Step Guide to Route Building for MSTS - http://trainsimulatorworld.com/catalog/b470.htm
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Okay, I'm pretty sure the flashing water has to do with the load on your computer (aka the frames per second). The reason you experience it mostly with dynamic tracks is becasue the dynamic track sections eats fps as pigs but you can also experience it if you run high detail engines and/or cars.
Added to the equation is of course the hardware you have thus it's impossible to say which combination of tracks/water and engine/cars will trigger the effect. A low end system will have more flashing water than a high end system depending on your graphics settings.


//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
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