Any way to force cab view?

Some pretty nice looking caves could be crafted if there is a way to force the sim to use cab view rather than external views when entering a cave. Pictured below is the inside of two rock hills with water toggled on.Bill Burnett

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RE: Any way to force cab view?, TrirailF40PHL, Oct-16-02, 06:17 PM, (1) RE: Any way to force cab view?, Tree Frog, Oct-16-02, 08:00 PM, (3) RE: Any way to force cab view?, smmille1, Oct-16-02, 06:40 PM, (2) RE: Any way to force cab view?, griffinmt, Oct-16-02, 08:00 PM, (4) RE: Any way to force cab view?, smmille1, Oct-16-02, 08:24 PM, (6) RE: Any way to force cab view?, griffinmt, Oct-16-02, 08:42 PM, (7) RE: Any way to force cab view?, smmille1, Oct-16-02, 11:11 PM, (8) RE: Any way to force cab view?, griffinmt, Oct-16-02, 11:50 PM, (9) RE: Any way to force cab view?, smmille1, Oct-17-02, 00:00 AM, (10) RE: Any way to force cab view?, smmille1, Oct-17-02, 00:15 AM, (11) RE: Any way to force cab view?, 3footer, Oct-17-02, 09:53 AM, (12) RE: Any way to force cab view?, Tree Frog, Oct-16-02, 08:01 PM, (5) RE: Any way to force cab view?, LawrenceKellie, Oct-17-02, 10:18 AM, (13) RE: Any way to force cab view?, Tree Frog, Oct-17-02, 12:02 PM, (14) RE: Any way to force cab view?, LawrenceKellie, Oct-17-02, 12:06 PM, (15) RE: Any way to force cab view?, Tree Frog, Oct-17-02, 12:14 PM, (16) RE: Any way to force cab view?, griffinmt, Oct-17-02, 01:03 PM, (18) RE: Any way to force cab view?, Tree Frog, Oct-17-02, 01:14 PM, (19) RE: Any way to force cab view?, griffinmt, Oct-17-02, 01:16 PM, (20) RE: Any way to force cab view?, calr, Oct-17-02, 12:21 PM, (17) RE: Any way to force cab view?, charlie, Oct-17-02, 02:08 PM, (21) RE: Any way to force cab view?, calr, Oct-17-02, 02:41 PM, (22)

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Hello Bill!Don't know the answer to this one - but I need to ask you, what length do you need the curved tunnels? I know you gave me the degrees, but not the length, and that makes a big difference...Take care!Kurt

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Hi Kurt,I am beginning that area now. I will email you with the length.Thanks,
Bill Burnett

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Well, you'd have to have track sections that were specified as tunnel sections, but didn't have the attached "tunnel" to block the view. I'd think that would work. Have you strayed from the default global\tsection.dat yet?

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I don't know what attribute makes a track part of a tunnel other than the TunnelShap() parm for the track shape. So, take the shapes you want to use on that space, copy them to new shapenumbers (but same shape file etc) and add the TunnelShape() parm for each.I have never built a tunnel (live in flat area!!), but don't they also need tunnel walls. Is it possible that THEY cause the cabview due to some 'collision' setting?If so, perhaps a TRANSPARENT tunnel wall would do that.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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I don't think it's a collision thing. That sounds like too much trouble. From watching trains from the exterior view, at least from what I remember (which is probably biased since I'm trying to justify a point), it seemed that it always flipped to an interior view when the car/loco you were "watching" (the one the camera was attached to) hit the beginning of the tunnel. From this, it seems logical that it's being caused by the track section and not the environment.

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Then explain what happens with an external view just above the train and passing under a road bridge. It tosses you into the cab till you are clear of the bridge.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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I don't remember ever noticing that, but then again, I don't spend much time on routes with road bridges. Example?

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After revisiting, I realise that it was not a roadbridge, it actually was a short tunnel with a road going overhead.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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maybe we should quit bickering and actually test it. What would be required? A tunnel that never passes below ground, and normal track that does go underground? I'm not going to get around to it tonight. Gotta go to be so I might be half-awake by the time I get to work tomorrow

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Yeah, well, so I'm not so good at going to bed on time. I tested going into a tunnel on a nice perfectly flat world. Using the new SD40-2 consist with it, two gons and a caboose, I backed into a couple straight tunnel sections I strung together. It didn't seem to matter which car was my 'focus'; it always kicked me into the cab about when the back porch of the loco was in the tunnel. It's not the edge of the bounding box - I watched that. But it did always send me in. I didn't erect a tunnel portal or anything fancy like that. So there's my half-a-report.

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>I don't know what attribute makes a track part of a tunnel
>other than the TunnelShap() parm for the track shape. So,
>take the shapes you want to use on that space, copy them to
>new shapenumbers (but same shape file etc) and add the
>TunnelShape() parm for each.
>
>I have never built a tunnel (live in flat area!!), but don't
>they also need tunnel walls. Is it possible that THEY cause
>the cabview due to some 'collision' setting? I also have not built a tunnel section, but since the only difference between tunnels and non-tunnels is this 'TunnelShape()' parameter
in the tsection.dat file, this is almost certainly the flag that tells MSTS to pop you into the cab and to turn on the tunnel sounds.The walls should just be part of the general graphic shape file, as is the track roadbed/rails for all sections. The walls could be omitted (or 'borrow' a shape file from an identical non-tunnel track section).

3footer

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Scott,No, I haven't strayed from the default global\tsection.dat yet. Sounds like it is about time take the plunge.Bill Burnett

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>Some pretty nice looking caves could be crafted if there is
>a way to force the sim to use cab view rather than external
>views when entering a cave. Pictured below is the inside of
>two rock hills with water toggled on. ::scratching head::I don't understand your question, professor. You didn't use the word "tunnel," but is that what you are meaning? Because whenever I enter a tunnel, it goes to cab view.Lawrence

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Lawrence,To have a train drive through a cave (not exactly prototypical), the train has to go underground. The external views remain above ground. So the only way I know of to view a cave the train is passing through would be to force the cab view like happens when entering a tunnel. However, a normal tunnel would block the view of the cave and defeat the purpose. Seems to me that Scott's solution should work. "Well, you'd have to have track sections that were specified as tunnel sections, but didn't have the attached "tunnel" to block the view." Martyn's "I don't know what attribute makes a track part of a tunnel other than the TunnelShap() parm for the track shape. So, take the shapes you want to use on that space, copy them to new shapenumbers (but same shape file etc) and add the TunnelShape() parm for each." Seems to be a effective way to accomplish this. Bill BurnettBill Burnett

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Thanks.Didn't I see an "underwater tunnel" at one time? Clear walls? Wouldn't that work?Lawrence

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-02 AT 12:15 PM (EDT)

Yes, Kurt made me some underwater tunnels with blue tinted semi-transparent walls for the undersea area I am constructing. However, they do not force cab view since they are objects that are placed over existing track. To the best my knowledge, objects can't force cab view. I don't believe train sheds do (but they should).Bill Burnett

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I just took my modified version of Okrasa's roundhouse (it lets you drive thru out the back) and gave the entry in tsection the TunnelShape ( ) parameter.Then I built a straigt track into two of them back to back (just for sizing) and set up an activity.As expected, with an external view active, as the back of the geep went thru, my view switched to cab, then back again as I came out.SO, I then just added TunnelShape to the A1t100mstrt entry in tsection (thats what I built the test with) and went back to test the route. At that point, the ONLY views I could get where '1' and 'Shft-1' (!)Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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Thanks Martyn. I am going to experiment with that for my "caves".Bill Burnett

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So, when are you going to tell us how you make those 'inside-out' buildings you call caves!Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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Here is something to consider. In RE, if you hit the "/" key it turns off terrain collision and allows the camera to go underground. Is there a way to do something similar in the sim. I have run into the same problem as you with the external view in my se**** (oops, can't talk about that) areas.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Blasting tunnels near Lyle, Washington)

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Cal,Actually with normal (non-tunnel) track pieces you don't have to do anything but simply lay track right through and underneath the terrain. Trains don't collide with the terrain and you drive right through. Of course you have to use the "/" key in the RE to lay the track.See Michael Vone's "Albula Line" for an example hidden at one end. You drive through the mountain wall onto track suspended over the great white void and look up at the underside of the terrain.regards,
charlie

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What you say is true but if you select one of the external views in the sim, the camera drags along on the ground above your location instead close to the train where it's supposed to be.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Blasting tunnels near Lyle, Washington)

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