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Lengthening Signal Tethers?

Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 1

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Charter Member · 3584 posts

I don't remember if I asked Hank this question and didn't get an answer, or forgot to ask and forgot what the answer to the unasked question was.
Anyway, the red triangle and the signal shape itself are joined by a "tether" of sorts, and the length is just a tad too short for what I want.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 2I need to drag the signal post itself at least double the max distance away from the red trip marker, and I don't see anything obvious in the shape file that determines the maximum distance limit.
Anybody know?

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RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, smmille1, Oct-08-02, 08:14 AM, (1) RE: Stretching Exercises?, sniper297, Oct-08-02, 11:26 AM, (4) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, troub, Oct-08-02, 10:03 AM, (2) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, Signalmaster, Oct-08-02, 10:07 AM, (3) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, sniper297, Oct-08-02, 11:44 AM, (5) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, Signalmaster, Oct-08-02, 02:43 PM, (6) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, sniper297, Oct-08-02, 04:16 PM, (7) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, Signalmaster, Oct-08-02, 07:13 PM, (8) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, smmille1, Oct-08-02, 07:49 PM, (9) RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?, sniper297, Oct-08-02, 09:47 PM, (10)

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Charter Member · 337 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

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Hmm. Have you tried moving it in the .w file after placing it? That might work...or cause the sim to crash

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Charter Member · 3584 posts

RE: Stretching Exercises?

Hey, Igor #1, how ya been? Where ya been? Em-BEAR-assing display of ineptitude last night, hey? @%^&*#! McCaskey might be collecting all the dough, but the guy who really OWNS Da Bears is Brett Favre, dat bum is now 21 and 4 against them if my recollection serves me.
Two of my kids live up in Cheeseheadland USA, they never let me hear the end of it. Well, oddly enough that actually works, altho once the numbers have been hacked you can't move the post any more once it's beyond that 20 meter limit. Can't even move it closer to the trip, damn thing won't budge in any direction, refuses to even rotate. So I did the exact placement thing instead of moving approximately and adjusting afterwards (you're gonna love this, more screenshotz! );Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 3
I place two of the signals, one where I want the trip (upper left), the other where I want the post (lower right), then look for the coordinates and copy the position & Qdirection lines.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 4
Finding the one where the trip will be, I overwrite the position and Qdirection with the lines from the signal post location. Save the .w file, exit the RE without saving, and reload.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 5
The posts are now in exactly the same place, so I select the trip for the temp post, slide it over a little to make sure I have the right one, and delete it.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 6
Near switch curved, far switch straight, post far enough from junction to stop short. Interval shows red for the near switch set against this track, distant signal correctly shows green for the far switch straight, since the trip is beyond the base the path trace isn't interrupted by the near switch and it don't give a false red indication. Still need another one at the base of the switch to cover the "dead zone", since HAL don't actually look at the other track to see if the player has passed the signal trip, instead he traces the AI path onto the single track section from the curve, and unless the player is beyond the base of the switch he looks at it as being clear and resets the switches accordingly. Having a distant signal indicator at the base gives the player a final check as he's going past the base of the switch where HAL will detect him and stop setting switches for the player.
Hmmm. Still hope there's another way, all that manual wordpad searching and editing would get tedious considering I probably have over a hundred of these AI/player junctions, maybe I'll use the ingenious Miller Madness Method only on the problem junctions, the notorious Sundermeyer crossing tracks sections.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 7
Here's Anderson yard, two-way AI traffic thru the classification yard tracks (red).Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 8
Close up of the crossing junctions at one end, AI tracks red, player blue, shared track purple.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 9
Since there's no way to protect an actual crossover track with signals, the junctions in Sundermeyer were made with two switches joined base-to-base, and since the sim won't accept that the bases were seperated with a 10 meter straight section. For this one I used a 2 meter dynamic track section instead, which gives a better illusion of a crossing, but don't leave much space for the signal trips.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 10
Unfortunately 1 out of the 4 crossing junctions don't work right no matter what I do with it, the signals don't display correctly no matter where I slide the trips.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 11
Bottom searchlight being a distant switch indicator that has no block occupation detection, it's correctly displaying green, but the top signal is an interval gantry mount and should be red.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 12
Backing over the same signal trip causes it to display correctly, unfortunately it's not consistent.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 13
And this one don't change no matter what, altho the same signals on the other 3 junctions with the same configuration display correctly.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 14
With a 2 meter long crossing you don't really need block occupation detection anyway, you can SEE whether there's a train in the block. So I tried it with just distant signal and switchstand indicators.Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 15
When the near switch throws curved, both heads turn red since the path trace is blocked, the switchstand shows the far switch is actually still straight. The switchstand indicators don't always reset to the correct indication after AI train passage either, I've always found switchstand indicators with automatic switches to be a sometimes-iffy thing. But in order to keep HAL from throwing both switches at the same time and/or throwing the switches while the player train is in the crossing junction, some type of signal trip is necessary between the switches. Probably what I'm gonna do there is go ahead and use the switchstand indicators and just bury the heads underground to avoid confusing indications.Well, later, Igor, gotta go see if I can blow up the lab again.

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Charter Member · 286 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

Hi, JimSorry about that.The only way I can think of is to edit the graphic(S file) in a 3d program so the signal's pivot point is 'x' feet away from the signal's base.If I could find the orignal 3dcp file for the PO&N's distant signal, I would try that for you.Incicentally, did I recently see a distant signal on the PO&N with 2 SL heads?Hank

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Charter Member · 3584 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

Holy moley, I knew I was a windbag, and having two more posts pop up while I'm typing isn't unusual, but did it take me an hour and a half to type all that?!Hee-hee, no, Trouble, didn't occur to me, but thanx for the tip, I'll take a squint at that next."sorry about that", Hank? Does this mean I'm not suffering from Alzheimers as much as I thought, and I actually DID ask that question at some point in the past? That's the biggest problem with all us ancient & decrepid types;
1. Did I ask the question and the other guy forgot to answer?
2. Did I ask the question and forgot that the other guy answered?
3. Or did I space out altogether and completely forget to ask the question, altho from thinking about asking I got a false memory of having asked?
Hee-hee, all that LSD & Mescaline back in the 60's probably didn't help much either, am I really asking all these questions now or just imagining it?! Actually those ain't PO&N signals, I hacked the ace file for the different texture, those are SL1D.S, your standard package distant searchlights. And yeah, if you look at the screens from my last post I kitbashed two distant signals together, lowering one down inside the other to get the double head illusion.

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Charter Member · 286 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-02 AT 02:51 PM (EDT)

JimI've experimented with my suggestion about 'extending' the signal tether. Essentially it works, but I can't seem to be able to click on it to change to the wireframe mode once the signal is placed and you click out of the placement mode. If you want to move it, you have to delete the red marker and place the signal again where you want it before leaving the wireframe mode. Now I can place the red marker on the switch converging exit and the signal for that marker on the trailing point entrance side. All other funtions are the same.Hank

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Lengthening Signal Tethers? – image 17
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3da329240e6e24a2.jpg

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Charter Member · 3584 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

If I understand what you're saying correctly, you can change the tether length from the default 20 meters to 50 or whatever, then place the marker and position the pole/head wherever you want it within the new 50 meter restriction - the catch being you only get one shot at it and can't reposition afterwards? That's pretty much what I have now anyway, if I change the Position & Qdirection in wordpad, I can select the pole/head but I can't move or rotate it if it's outside the 20 meter default limit.I don't see a "pivot" or "rotate" or "rotation" coming up on the search in the .s file, the only thing I see that might be related is this:sub_objects ( 1
sub_object (
sub_object_header ( 00000400 -1 -1 000001d2 000001c4
geometry_info ( 363 2 0 1089 0 0 2 0 0 0
geometry_nodes ( 2
geometry_node ( 1 0 0 0 0
cullable_prims ( 1 223 669 )
)
geometry_node ( 1 0 0 0 0
cullable_prims ( 1 140 420 )
)
)
geometry_node_map ( 2 0 1 )
)
subobject_shaders ( 1 0 )
subobject_light_cfgs ( 1 0 ) 0
)
I'm guessing the "subobject" would be the red trip, since the actual visible signal pole/head object has XYZ coordinates in the RE object window, and the trip doesn't.Nothing in the sigscr or sigcfg dat files I could find either, so it has to be in the shape.

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Charter Member · 286 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

JimI didn't do anything in those files. I simply moved the object away from the center of rotation(pivot point) along the z axis(done in the graphics editor). I'm sure the 20-50 meter distance is still the same. That measures how far you can move the pivot point from some other point; the red marker in this case. So if you move the object 20 meters away from its pivot, you get that additional 'apparent' distance from the red marker. Of course, if you rotate the signal, its will swing in a huge arc. But you usually move the signal along the length of the track and slightly to one side or the other. So the arc won't make a great deal of difference and still stands vertically. It's very simple to move around if you use keystrokes rather than mouse. Just don't loose the wireframe mode before it's placed.Hank

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Charter Member · 337 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-02 AT 07:50 PM (EDT)

Jim, If you want to try this, guess what will let you do this? It's the same thing we're doing to the tricky trax shapes. I have no idea how signals work so I don't know if they can be cloned because I don't know how they're referenced in the signal scripts. You can't modify the normal one unless you haven't placed it anywhere else yet (which I doubt).Edit, shoulda said "shouldn't" instead of "can't"

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Charter Member · 3584 posts

RE: Lengthening Signal Tethers?

Hee-hee, if you're talking about the VB thingy you sent me, I haven't even had a chance to try it out yet, so I dunno what exactly it will do or not do. "shouldn't" instead of "can't" is right on target, you know I'm crazy enough to try it anyway. Got a backup copy of the route, can't hurt a thing. For the most part I'm doing all the experimenting on PO&N5 anyway, then just click on the PO&Nver5.exe file, uncheck the box to run the batch (5 common folders don't change with RE hacking), and overwrite what don't work with what does. Just for giggles I tried adding telephone poles the regular way again (under track objects, gives you a 3 pole section that's somehow supposed to fill in when you place them at far ends but don't, and they end up being impossible to delete), and got send/don't send on activity startup. That's not a shape file problem, it's something about the telepole.dat file, since I can add the same shape to the ref file as a static object and place one pole at a time without causing problems.Hank, ya lost me with the "graphics editor", I'm guessing that's one of those 3D canvas programs I never learned how to use.

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