2 Times Now… Weird RE Bug?

Ok, there is a very..VERY weird bug in the Route Editor, or maybe XP, but this is the second time (after saving 10 times also) but the route has well... disappeared... yes, disappeared.. or rather, Deleted? So, I once again have to start over (chuckling now) the route, or maybe I should just start on the BNSF Funnel, it just really really strange, I don't get that lol. Blah.. I'll just build it on Win ME. I know this isn't clear, so, let me try alittle better.. last night, I worked in the Route Editor, laying some rail down for a couple hours, and started to feel tired, so I saved the route, shut down the computer, went to bed.. woke up this morning, fired up the computer, went to the Route Editor and looked for my route..... it well.. disappeared. So I go into Windows Explorer, made my way to the Microsoft Games folder, looked in the Routes, and there wasn't "EGTMilwCoastDiv" anywhere to be found... me being 100% dumbfounded *again* did a search on BOTH of my hard drives and the networked computer as well... notta. So, I ruled it deleted again. Weird and leaves a mystery deep in my head... WHERE DID IT GO, hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe, Oh, I don't know why I find this funny as annoying and time comsuming as this is, but it is just a good way to start the week off (oh, how I need me a Quad Shot Mocha right now) Ah well... I'll download the DEM and all that fun stuff around Noon and work on the BNSF for a little bit, then try the Milw again *continues to shake his head and chuckle*

Brian E. Bundridge
Founder - Evergreen Tracks
Seattle, Washington

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RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, sniper297, Sep-16-02, 02:19 PM, (1) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, Macster, Sep-16-02, 02:27 PM, (2) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, DarkestRose, Sep-16-02, 02:30 PM, (3) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, rdamurphy, Sep-16-02, 03:07 PM, (4) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, griffinmt, Sep-16-02, 03:50 PM, (5) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, zhivago47, Sep-16-02, 03:55 PM, (6) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, calr, Sep-16-02, 04:38 PM, (7) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, Tree Frog, Sep-16-02, 04:50 PM, (8) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, LawrenceKellie, Sep-16-02, 04:55 PM, (9) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, Smokewraith, Sep-16-02, 10:42 PM, (10) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, Macster, Sep-17-02, 01:14 AM, (11) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, calr, Sep-17-02, 01:45 AM, (12) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, zhivago47, Sep-17-02, 08:20 AM, (13) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, calr, Sep-17-02, 11:19 AM, (14) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, griffinmt, Sep-17-02, 01:15 PM, (15) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, calr, Sep-17-02, 04:55 PM, (16) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, griffinmt, Sep-17-02, 06:58 PM, (18) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, rpicardi1, Sep-17-02, 08:21 PM, (19) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, Hack, Sep-17-02, 05:03 PM, (17) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, highball5, Sep-18-02, 02:36 AM, (20) RE: 2 Times Now... Weird RE Bug?, DarkestRose, Sep-18-02, 10:55 AM, (21)

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If the whole smash is gone from the folders, sounds more like the OS than the RE. I refuse to even look at XP until they take out that "call for permission to use it" crap, but possibly it has some kind of disk caching thing turned on, so you save the route and shut down it never gets written to disk. The other potential is it saves it to some kind of temp folder that gets wiped on shutdown or startup.I would suggest checking the system settings for things like that, 98SE defaults to assorted power down schemes to shut down the monitor, shut off the hard disk after 15 minutes of activity, etc. First thing I always do after a fresh install is disable all that garbage, I want to leave for 45 minutes I'll turn the monitor off with the switch.

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That is what I am guessing, I never had that problem with ME, so, It probably is something you described... ahh well

Brian E. Bundridge
Founder - Evergreen Tracks
Seattle, Washington

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Errr... I've had MSTS uninstall trains on me, I'd installed them, made the consists went into MSTS took them out through the routes, sometimes an hour sometimes five. Closed down MSTS and went to get the ace files to create tga files for reskinning and not there, not the files, anywhere, only the consists were left. Ran Route Control to try to find them as well and got errors that the consists needed such and such engine file. It didn't happen all the time only once in a great while, well about 7 times since I've had MSTS. But then we all know I seem to have a very screwed up version of 98SE ~laugh~

"When you are with me I'm free
I'm careless, I believe
Above all the others we'll fly
This brings tears to my eyes
My Sacrifice"--Creed

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Your route name is too long. Use the standard 8 character DOS naming convention, and see if it quits disappearing. Everything in TS uses the 8 character maximum. It probably didn't save anything, and the error messages were supressed.Rob

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Not saving without indicating any error is an 'undocumented feature' of MSTS REIf you create a new route, launch RE and drop in some track, save, exit, relaunch RE and then delete that track, save and exit again, the next time you start it, it give the track database error (because the tdb exists but no tracknodes).If you tell it to rebuild the tdb, start the rE up and then add some track, when you exit it will ask you about saving changes. tell it to save and all is rosy - until you start re again and nothing is there!However I have never seen it go so wild as to wipe out the content and existence of a route directory. Sounds more like there is some additional process running that is 'managing' that space.In a managed environment using NT/W2K/XP this is not an uncommon activity for systems where the operator drops in files etc that are not desired by the controlling interest. Just not very likely in a home system UNLESS this is a home-office type of setup associated with a remote business.Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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I have never had that happen on my XP machine Brian. I think Rob has your answer however. Your file name is too long! Use a shorter one and see what happens. And I can't believe you don't back up your route files........tsk tsk tsk.....Tim
The Spur Line
http://tahunter.net
Appalachia RR - Midwest & Rocky Mountain RR - ADFRR Route

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"Columbia Gorge" has more than 8 characters plus a space and it works just fine. My recommendation would be to get rid of Win XP and WinME and go with 98SE or WIN2k. I am currently using 98SE but am seriously considering upgrading to WIN2K.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Dam--Landscaping,building roads,erecting buildings
The Dalles Yard--Laying track)

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I am using Win 98SE. It has lots of bugs, but seems to work well with the Route Editor, so I am sticking with it for now.Bill Burnett

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I used Win98SE2 with 768 MB RAM. No problemI am using WinXP(h) with 256 MB RAM. No problem.Lawrence

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OK I know this is going to be an out there, possibly stupid, question, but, did your Routes folder get its properties set to read only? I have XP Corporate and it just LOVES to change my folder and file properties and settings for me, whether I want it to or not. Now that I think about it, it couldn't be that cause you'd get an error message or something when you tried to save. Hmmm...a real stumper that...

Bill

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Well, I figured out the problem.... on XP, I wasn't able to use a file name with 8 letters... I changed it to EGTMilw and it now works perfectly fine... back to work I go!

Brian E. Bundridge
Founder - Evergreen Tracks
Seattle, Washington

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One more reason for dumping XP.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Dam--Landscaping,building roads,erecting buildings
The Dalles Yard--Laying track)

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Cal, I have been using XP since day one with the game and have never had a problem running it. There is nothing wrong with XP. If you tried it you wouldn't go back to anything else. Believe me on this!If you have never used it you shouldn't down it. We said his problem was the long file name. And it was, although there is a setting in XP to allow them, somewhere.Just my two cents worth.
Tim
The Spur Line
http://tahunter.net
Appalachia RR - Midwest & Rocky Mountain RR - ADFRR Route

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Until such time as MS changes its licensing policies and controls, I won't even consider using XP. Also, I have seen too many XP related problems discussed here in the forums. Not just MSTS related problems but others.I know from personal experience that WINME is a pile of recycled cow fodder. Gateway provided it to me as a free upgrade. I installed it and removed it about a month later.Here at work in the county data center we have a number of servers running WIN2K and they seem to be very stable. Most of the workstations (~1800) in the county are currently running NT 4.0 which I don't like but we are in the process of upgrading the entire county to WIN2K. I look forward to getting it on my work PC.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Dam--Landscaping,building roads,erecting buildings
The Dalles Yard--Laying track)

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Cal,FUD regarding the licencing concerns not withstanding, XP has much more in common to W2K than W2K ever did with NT4, yet all three (and WNT3.1, WNT3.5 and WNT3.51 before them) are a somewhat natural evolution. About the only 'unnatural' aspect is what they did to create WXP Home edition, removing and altering a number of internal network based capabilities, etc. As such, it is a stretch to call that one XP.If you set aside all the mumbling going on about XP from folks who have only read about problems, you will be surprised to find it is a better product than its predecessor in functionality and reliability, and miles ahead of NT4 before that. And XP interplays with W2K almost seemlessly. I have evolved through all of those NT versions, primarily on a server relationship but also from a workstation aspect with NT4 and W2K and XP. I have even done some Alpha testing with the server flavor of XP, but that is too little to justify any comment, pro or con.You can get a reskin application that will give W2K the look and feel of XP (but none of the functionality) and you can get a reskin for XP that makes it seem like W2K for those who feel awkward about change.I don't advocate change for the sake of change, and would support staying with what is a known quantity while it satisifies the need. But that being said, not many would agree that you could accomplish what you are doing today by staying with Window V1 or V2. AS a minimum, developers of other products will squeeze you up because they see a better selling environment using features that don't exist on older operating systems.
Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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OK Martyn, I've read your post about three times and I still am not sure what you are saying. Are you trying to say that upgrading from Win98SE to Win2K is a good step or not. I think I understand what you say about XP. I like the looks of XP. I have played with it in CompUSA. I am doing a major disk upgrade this weekend with the installation of two forty or sixty gig drives. I am going to partition the first drive into 20 gb partitions and the second drive as one large drive. While I am transitioning from 98SE to Win2k, can I put each OS in a separate partition and have dual boot capability. It is going to take some time to reinstall all my software under Win2K. (The second physical drive is going to be used for Norton Ghost images and other backups)
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Dam--Landscaping,building roads,erecting buildings
The Dalles Yard--Laying track)

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I wanted to make sure that I wasn't offending anyones decision to not use XP. But I think that many folks stay away, not based on sound statistics, but on fears that are spread by the few who have had unfortunate experiences. But those same kinds of tales existed with Windows 3, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98 (and its 5 variants), NT3.51, NT4, ME (a lot) and W2K (NT5). It is a part of human nature to look for all that is wrong before seeing what is right.If you are going to continue to use W98SE, remember that it does not support the NTFS file format, so any NTFS partitions will be invisible to it. Also, due to the way FAT32 works, you will start to see some performance issues using large partitions. Try keeping them under 8gb. They will still work though. Decide upon what boot manager you will use before proceeding. That will dictate what you can put where. With W98SE already installed on the initial hard drive (and primary partition), W2k will let you install it and allow for dual boot. But an important piece of W2k will be on that same boot partition, which will have to remain as Fat32. Other third party boot managers will let you place the systems on any drive independant of each other. I think XOSL is one that does this (can't remember).There are very few things available today that won't work under W2k/XP. But many 'old' applications still mis-behave, thinking it is W98 (or even W95). If you don't plan on running these, try to get off W98 ASAP, and convert your partitions to NTFS. You will get a performance boost, a more robust recovery situation, can take advantage of object level compression, and so forth, not to mention a good security environment for when you need it. W98 has NO inherent security, NT systems are designed around it from the getgo.I am of the 'old' school that still believes in doing real backups regularly to tape (40gb DLT), and my W2K server takes care of that for me. Martyn T. Griffin
griffinmt@mindspring.com

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I don't recommend upgrading to XP from 98SE or other verson. You can run into a lot of problems doing this. The best way is a full install of XP on a computer that is fairly new, or the OEM version on a brand new system.The new cow computer with XP has been working just fine.Be careful of older software installing on XP. Most of the time, you will get a warning of incompability if it is a problem. Sometimes, you don't. Installing my map program caused a serious crash on XP which, fortunely, was able to recover from the error and displayed a warning message.MSTS installed flawlessly and copying over the existing files with my backup worked with no problems.It's not necessary to back up software. It's extremly important to back up data daily and have two or more backups, some kept elsewhere, if you can't afford to lose it.SRV Ron

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Hmmm...I have a route here called Aerosoft Kassel-Fulda and it works like a champ.Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

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Just to be the devil's advocate, I loaded MSTS on a XP Pro box and tossed together
a couple small test routes. I gave them both excessively long names.....
davestestroute-1 and thisisjustatest. In both cases the route seemed to save
fine with the names intact. I have had trouble in the past with both XP Home and
XP Pro mangling long filenames for no apparent reason. Every file with a name
longer than the good old 8.3 format got truncated with that silly ~ attached.
Another mystery at my ex-wife's office on an XP Pro box, any file saved, no matter
what application saved it, had the hidden attribute set. The only way to see them
was to go into the options and make sure 'show all files' was checked. Or go back
after the fact and turn off the hidden attribute. A complete reinstall of XP (which
went as smoothly as giving breach birth to a porcupine) corrected that little
short coming. I've removed MSTS from the XP test machine and will let it sit
powered off in the corner unless it's needed for support.
Disclaimer: The above from a devout Linux lover.

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~chuckle~ My tech will not put XP on a machine and will not service one with it on, if its going to stay on. He took a three week class on XP around the time of its release and he didn't like it, felt it was too unstable. The only OS he likes from MS is 98SE. A friend came over asking me to install NetNanny on her machine and take off a bunch of crap her son installed and downloaded, its XP. I do have to say the security features for different people logging on are very good ~laugh~ I found only one thing in her account--the son had used it the night before-- and when I got to his? oh man ~laugh~ so much crap in there... I had tried other ways that I've been able to do with 98SE to check files on the computer and even search won't let you see those files or even find them.
I just do not like the graphics at all, it feels like there is a plastic screen over the real one, I don't like that flash/java(?) stuff in an OS. It made me feel the same way a dust cover would over my keyboard and trying to type ~chuckle~

"When you are with me I'm free
I'm careless, I believe
Above all the others we'll fly
This brings tears to my eyes
My Sacrifice"--Creed

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