How good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber for

Hello friends,as i am new to MSTS,how good will this ROUTE BUILDING Book by R Garber be useful for newcomers.
please post your comments.
thank you
PS:more ? will follow!

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RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber , Hawk, Aug-03-02, 02:36 AM, (1) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, Kip, Aug-03-02, 03:03 AM, (2) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by MICHAEL V, flarrfan, Aug-03-02, 07:52 AM, (4) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, Kip, Aug-03-02, 09:39 PM, (10) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, EngineJoe, Aug-03-02, 08:59 PM, (9) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, mivone, Aug-03-02, 10:10 PM, (11) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber , MRRextreme, Aug-03-02, 04:17 AM, (3) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, lenglel, Aug-03-02, 05:56 PM, (7) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, jleslie, Aug-03-02, 06:51 PM, (8) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, MRRextreme, Aug-03-02, 11:13 PM, (12) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, jleslie, Aug-04-02, 06:41 AM, (13) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, MRRextreme, Aug-05-02, 01:08 AM, (14) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, activitamin, Aug-05-02, 10:14 AM, (15) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, MRRextreme, Aug-05-02, 08:28 PM, (20) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, Engineer, Aug-05-02, 01:58 PM, (16) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, MRRextreme, Aug-05-02, 08:32 PM, (21) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber , Tree Frog, Aug-03-02, 05:03 PM, (5) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, sniper297, Aug-03-02, 05:32 PM, (6) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, LawrenceKellie, Aug-05-02, 02:20 PM, (17) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, Tree Frog, Aug-05-02, 02:40 PM, (18) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, jalsina, Aug-05-02, 03:22 PM, (19) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by who????, mivone, Aug-05-02, 10:56 PM, (23) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by who????, Tree Frog, Aug-05-02, 11:26 PM, (24) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by who????, jalsina, Aug-06-02, 08:52 AM, (25) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by who????, mivone, Aug-07-02, 01:21 AM, (26) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by who????, jalsina, Aug-07-02, 08:44 AM, (27) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by who????, mivone, Aug-07-02, 10:56 PM, (29) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, MRRextreme, Aug-05-02, 08:39 PM, (22) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber, vince31874, Aug-07-02, 09:48 AM, (28) RE: how good is the book on Route Building by R.Garber , activitamin, Aug-09-02, 11:29 AM, (30)

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First off, the "Step by Step Guide to Route Building" was not written by Rich Garber. It was written by Mike Vone. It is an excellent guide. Rich wrote the "Step by Step Guide to TS Activities". Also, another excellent guide.
Hawk
"Last night I heard an old freight whistle blow, as I was sleeping warmly in your bed. And it told me: "Boy, it's time that you were packing up to go", but I smiled and shook the leaving from my head."

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Well...let me see. One week ago I couldn't figure out a dam* thing on the RE...period. Tried for months...always failed. 3 Days ago I downloaded the Route Building manual (tutorial) from TrainSimualtorWorld...I am in the middle of making a test route on my own with the book in front of me. I have learned so much in the last few days that I can make a half-a$$ decent route in a day (small one) with bridges, moving cars, roads, towns. How to know which track to use to make a proper switch (the tough part) and so on. It isn't easy, alot to remember, and the program itself isn't that friendly, but the book is very, very good. For $15, you get alot of information. It takes you through step by step on how to make this and that. Get it if you want to make a route.Kip

The Priest River Railroad..."it's so fictional, it's almost real"
PRRR Website

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-02 AT 07:54 AM (EDT)

If you want to build a route bad enough, FIND THE $15! I've probably spent over a hundred dollars on payware routes and equipment add-ons, but this single download was BY FAR the best buy I have ever made for my own satisfaction with any computer software I have ever owned. Kip's post above matches my experience exactly!Thank you again, Michael.

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Here is a snapshot of the route I am making. It's small, about 50 sq. miles. I have invested about 4 hours and have laid about 25 miles of track with many sidings, a couple of Wye's, bridges towns, moving cars...all because of the book. Here is my F7 Passenger train going under the bridge the same time a consist with 4 PRRR SD40's going over. Talk about lucky timing.
Kip

The Priest River Railroad..."it's so fictional, it's almost real"
PRRR Website

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d4c857e041c48b4.jpg

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Does it go into the usage of DEMs?Joe

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The Guide does not go into DEM, since I haven't tried that myself yet! There are tutorials available for that anyway.Michael Vone
Step by Step Guide to Route Building for MSTS - http://trainsimulatorworld.com/catalog/b470.htm
Albula Line Route
Rocky Islands Route
Cliff Hanger Route
http://avsim.com/hangar/utils/mvchallenges/

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I could not do complex trackwork like this until I bought his book.
Worth every cent. BTW the track layout shown is not fictional.

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d4b9126506e3393.jpg

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Say, is that the coal docks in Cleveland?
That track arrangement looks mighty familiar from my days
of riding the water level route from syracuse to toledo.

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I checked the longitude & latitude on Maptech, and that's a yard in South Baltimore. And a darn fine looking one at that.Jeff Leslie

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-02 AT 11:34 PM (EDT)

Jeff,
Thank you. Your assessment is correct. Actually your trackwork on those yards around that Firestone Plant in Ohio inspired me to believe it could be done. I only had to drop two yard tracks because of the limited default turnout geometry. However, I did not use X-tracks. Michael Vone's book was essential.

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d4ca006117be878.jpg

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Wow, done without Xtracks too, very nice. What kind of FPS you getting in that screenshot there with those static consists?Just goes to show you that you can modify your trackwork to fit the limitations of MSTS and nobody will know the differrence. You're the only one that knows you dropped some of the tracks. Just by looking at the general configuration of your trackwork I could still easily pick out which part of Baltimore you were modelling, because I only used the long-lat degrees to find out it was in Baltimore. I had to scroll around a little to manually find the spot you did, but I was still able to recognize it.Although I do have Michael Vone's route building tutorial, in fact I have the page on radian-degree conversion right in front of me whenever I lay track - it was actually Enocell with the prototypical N&NJ that inspired me to start my own prototypical route and try those huge yards. I started it back in the days before Xtracks however, and once Xtracks arrived on scene I was so impressed with it that I went back and re-did one of my other yards from scratch just to get it closer to the real one with Xtracks. I still have yet another large yard to re-do with Xtracks.If there is anything to be said bad about Xtracks though, it's those modular switches do increase your tile object count dramatically with all the little 2_6m and 5m pieces.Keep us posted on your progress in Baltimore.Jeff Leslie

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-02 AT 01:14 AM (EDT)

I am getting about 9 FPS with about 194 cars in the yard if the camera view is outside the loco. It is 16 FPS if the view is inside the loco. All of the consists are unit trains. Screen resolution is 1024x768. I think if each car is different the impact would be even greater.I will post further updates but I will put them in another thread.

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Hello thank you.
i have ordered my book today!
can you please tell how you can see the screenshot in that angle?
i just could not see like this at all?
what is your trix?
thank you

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<<screenshot in that angle>>Press "2" for an external cabview
Simultaneously press "ctrl","shift","9" for a dynamic camera view.
Hold down right mouse button while moving the mouse to rotate the view at different angles.

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looks good, does your track cover the Camden Station area of South Baltimore?Thanks
Jake

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-02 AT 08:37 PM (EDT)

<<track cover the Camden Station area of South Baltimore>>
Not yet, but it will since there is an industry in that area I plan model.The NEC track team plans to run track in the the Camden Station area for their NEC 4.0 route release. I started modeling the area shown in the screenshot because a member of their team stated they were only modeling the track up to Riverside yard.

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In my opinion Michael Vone's Guide to Route Building is absolutely essential for any new route builder. I can't imagine trying to learn to use the Route Editor without it.I spent one weekend building the tutorial "First Route" in the guide and was then ready to begin my own route. Still, after releasing two routes, I continue to refer to Michael's guide on a regular basis.Bill Burnett

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I never bought Mike's book, since it wasn't available yet when I started learning the route editor. I learned the hard way, just dive in and try to figure out what was what.If I was just starting now tho, I'd figure it would be easier to spend the money than to read thru every single thread in the archives or figure it out myself.

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I have to agree with Sniper. Us old timers (or is that Alzheimers?) had to learn the hard way. Not how the current "generation" does.I remember walking 20 crashes in snow 14 tracks deep to get to the RE. Those were the days. Non of this molly coddleing. We even had to split forest objects for heat! And you younguns today. ::shaking head in disbelief.::Look at how easy you have it: Vone's Route Building, Garber's Activity Tutorial, Sniper Comments, JohnCS' Demex (latest version), Route Riter, Xtracks.....you know, that before XTracks we had to even use the dynamic track!!!! Can you believe it? Talk about old fashioned. You youngsters today can make entire routes, complex yards, without even using ONE dynamic track. If only we had it so good....Lawrenceps: I'm feeling old.

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In all seriousness, it is amazing to me that you old timers figured out that Route Editor on you own. I really don't think I would have been able to. Because of that, I really respect my elders. Bill Burnett

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Michael Vone's manual is excellent. Not other tutorial will supply the amount of knowledge you find there. That, and later this forum for "post-graduate" courses will teach you everything you need Remember! the resulting route is for learning purposes. Michael uses too short radius curves and very high slopes (that you should not use in a further route). Long engines will get stuck and large heavy trains will stall.He teaches very well the part related with dynamic track, but the loop design is not right. If you wish, I can't tell you exactly how to correctly build Vone's loop, that will work always.jalsina

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About that loop: as the Guide warns, loops close to the mainline can indeed give trouble in MSTS. I don't know why, and I don't know how close is too close.By the way: whether curves are too tight and slopes are too steep depends on the route and the rolling stock using it. Narrow-guage lines and tram lines can have much tighter curves than the Guide uses (for instance a 100m radius on the real-life Albula Line). And the real-life Bernina Line in Switzerland has 6-degree slopes (double the normal maximum in MSTS), and doesn't even use cog wheels.In any case, let's continue to push the limits of MSTS!Michael Vone
Step by Step Guide to Route Building for MSTS - http://trainsimulatorworld.com/catalog/b470.htm
Albula Line Route
Rocky Islands Route
Cliff Hanger Route
http://avsim.com/hangar/utils/mvchallenges/

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"let's continue to push the limits of MSTS! I'm with you Michael. Bill Burnett

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It is always good to drive the attention of a personality like Michael Vone I enjoyed much your book and finished changing the route objects and scenery (but not much the track) and it's the only route I have done and the one I mostly use for testing of new rolling stock.I almost wrote you to talk about the loop. The loop as it is designed has permanent problems in my route. It was curious looking at your train derail in front of you or somewhere else always as an image departing from the real train, as a sort of ghost train. I don't know the cause of that, as I don't know why the solution solved the problems.The loop as it is suggested looks like this:You improve the loop if you replace the straight dynamic piece by a piece of 100 mt normal track joined to the switch and then a short dyanmic piece of about 35 mts long, that will minimize problems. It looks like the switch don't like a loop connected via two dynamic tracks.Jorge

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Thanks for the "fix": unfortunately, it does not work any better for me. Someone else also once proposed another "fix", and the same thing happened for me: some trains go crazy around that loop (they jump tracks, or break up, or derail, or whatever). It's as if some people had received different track shapes from Microsoft/Kuju! Or MSTS just doesn't like me...Michael Vone
Step by Step Guide to Route Building for MSTS - http://trainsimulatorworld.com/catalog/b470.htm
Albula Line Route
Rocky Islands Route
Cliff Hanger Route
http://avsim.com/hangar/utils/mvchallenges/

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Anyway Michael! Whatever I will do as to routes refer (and I will, believe me!), I won't include a loop, choosing instead a Y.Thanks for a book very well done! Once I have followed to learn the tutorial, it's a permanent source of consulting Jorge

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Thanks, but avoid the Y-switch as well!!Michael

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LawrenceGood to see you are posting again.

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I got a really better idea.... GET TRAINZ!!!LOL... Seriously... I have both MSTS, and Trainz. My opinion... MSTS is more on the realistic side... but as far as Trainz goes... you can build the most complex routes you ever thought of. I am in the middle of building the Coney Island Yard for the NYC Subway Division.... Switches are simple to make... and signals are a cinch... AND THEY WORK! Plus... you could put as much AI on the tracks as you want.Anyway... there is my 2 cents worth... Hopefully MSTS makes a route editor as powerful as Trainz in their next version, but until then, I will build routes with Trainz.

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THIS IS UNBELEIVABLE!
this post wa sone my very early psot&IMAGINE MR.M.VONE HIMSELF answered some ?in this thread.
BTW i am going through his book!
I FEEL GREAT!!!!
THANK YOU

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