Under water Sea View. Yuck!

A number of people have suggested an underwater area in Sea View. I have been experimenting with that idea with no success. That ugly brown underside of the water doesn't create a very interesting effect, in my opinion. Oh well, back to the drawing board.Bill Burnett

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RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, jerseycentral, Aug-02-02, 10:58 PM, (1) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, sniper297, Aug-02-02, 11:07 PM, (2) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Tree Frog, Aug-02-02, 11:35 PM, (4) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, DarkestRose, Aug-03-02, 03:01 AM, (9) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, patm41, Aug-03-02, 05:35 AM, (10) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Tree Frog, Aug-03-02, 12:01 PM, (12) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, patm41, Aug-03-02, 12:51 PM, (14) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, calr, Aug-02-02, 11:32 PM, (3) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, IcyFire, Aug-02-02, 11:42 PM, (5) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Hawk, Aug-03-02, 00:36 AM, (6) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, sniper297, Aug-03-02, 00:59 AM, (7) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Hawk, Aug-03-02, 01:15 AM, (8) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, atsfdude, Aug-03-02, 11:04 AM, (11) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Tree Frog, Aug-03-02, 12:05 PM, (13) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, TrirailF40PHL, Aug-03-02, 01:58 PM, (15) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Tree Frog, Aug-03-02, 02:22 PM, (16) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, darkfyre, Aug-03-02, 02:59 PM, (17) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, sniper297, Aug-03-02, 03:18 PM, (18) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Tree Frog, Aug-03-02, 04:54 PM, (19) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, jerseycentral, Aug-03-02, 06:13 PM, (20) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, TrirailF40PHL, Aug-03-02, 08:19 PM, (21) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, DarkestRose, Aug-03-02, 08:48 PM, (22) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Tree Frog, Aug-03-02, 10:31 PM, (23) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Transcon, Aug-03-02, 11:08 PM, (24) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, jeff9595, Aug-04-02, 02:11 PM, (25) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Tree Frog, Aug-04-02, 04:05 PM, (26) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, jeff9595, Aug-05-02, 11:32 AM, (29) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Transcon, Aug-04-02, 07:03 PM, (27) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, Hawk, Aug-04-02, 07:29 PM, (28) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, DarkestRose, Aug-05-02, 11:57 AM, (30) RE: Under water Sea View. Yuck!, jeff9595, Aug-05-02, 06:56 PM, (31)

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this was discussed a while ago, do a search, somebody said you can change the texture or something, i forget, but do a search and see what you find, it's possible, i for one would think itd be cool to have something under water! you could add in sunken ships and change the ground textures, hell, you could even have a submarine moving along and have it done how they do the airplane trick!

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Glub glub!
Yeah, you could hack waterbot.ace to make it blue or something, probably change the shade looking down at it from the top, tho. Kinda like this:

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Jim, Thanks for the waterbot.ace Here is how it looks. The blue is a little rich. Lots better than the brown, but I am using Ron Spalding's AWE water and it changed the appearance from the top significantly.I think because the water is a solid layer, it is going to be difficult to give the feel of really being under water. You sent me some coral terrain textures that would help. All I need now is light blue "air" between the underside of the water and the terrain. Someone suggested a light blue transparent tunnel, but that is getting over my head pretty quick. (no pun intended) Bill Burnett

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The DarkestRose just got significantly lost looking at all those screen shots... ~blinks~ I came to the forum for a break from doing textures in tsm and whoa ~laughs~ You need a yellow submarine, Bill.. yeah... definitely a yellow submarine... can't have the Nautilus, that would be too mmmm tame ~laugh~ oh my, I think I hit my limit this time... 3d cafe has some free things you could use, objects for things, I think I saw it in a post here, you do have to texture them, I think, not too sure, they come in .3ds files. If you see anything I might be able to use, shout ~chuckle~ I'm lazy tonight, found the link for you, but too lazy to search. http://www.3dcafe.com I do like that blue, hmmm light blue? Nah that would seem tacky, you need a glass appearing tunnel. If you are going to put things in it, fish and what not, you could put a glass bottom boat, or would that work? Loved DD and RH in that one...... Hope no one figures that one out.... ~leaves to look for gray hair~




"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

--Albert Einstein

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——DarkestRose——

Careful... The DustBunny has thorns

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-02 AT 05:42 AM (EDT)

you mean like this ?? Patm41

Maglev Route Designer
Casino Express

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Hi Pat,You emailed me screen shots of that fantastic tunnel a while back and I have been coveting it ever since. I figured it was for your commercial route and therefore not available for use in a freeware route. You don't happen to have a discarded version do you?Bill Burnett

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Bill ,, there were made by Craig Scott not me,, dew to texture problems they would not work very well in the sim...you might say that there were just an experiment...Patm41

Maglev Route Designer
Casino Express

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If you use Pat Malicki's watertop.ace, you can't see the waterbot.ace. Consequently, you can do whatever you want with it. Make it skyblue pink (my father's favorite color!) if you want.

Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Construction resumed on The Dalles Dam)

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Oh nasty man, That brown is terrible, If you released it like that, You'd have to call it sewage view, cuz thats what the brown looks like!hey, at least It aint black, if it were you have to call that, Oil Spill View, or Exxon Valdez View (that big oil tanker that leaked some years ago)I'll take the blue anyday!

Shawn "IcyFire" Kenselaar
"...But in a way the Big Boy never left, It still offers the high tractive effort, In a articulated wheel configuration!"

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-02 AT 01:00 AM (EDT)

Sniper-
Just tried your "waterbot.ace" and I think I like the way it makes the default water look. It's a little bluer, less green. Might keep it around.Default water:
Your "waterbot.ace":
One question though: I still can't see the bottom side of the water from underneath. All I see is sky. How do you guys do that?
HawkEdit 1: OK! This is strange. In one route, I can't see the bottom of the water.There really is water here.
In this route I can.Weird!
"Last night I heard an old freight whistle blow, as I was sleeping warmly in your bed. And it told me: "Boy, it's time that you were packing up to go", but I smiled and shook the leaving from my head."

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I dunno, we were trying to figure that out a long time ago, when Chris couldn't get it to work on Chicago Elevated V1. It's either the region the route is extracted in, whether or not you set the height offset, or a random thing that just happens on some routes when you lay dynamic track too close to water while looking over your left shoulder at a full moon.
Too blue, hey? Try this:

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Now that looks better from underneath, but I like the other .ace file for the top view.Uh Oh! Now I'm getting ideas. I'll never get this route done.
Thanks Sniper. A case of gingerale has been placed at the foot of the Idle (thought a change would be nice).
Hawk
"Last night I heard an old freight whistle blow, as I was sleeping warmly in your bed. And it told me: "Boy, it's time that you were packing up to go", but I smiled and shook the leaving from my head."

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Hawk, Can you send me that water file from Sniper. I think it would make the water look better on my Route.Thanks
-- John Tackett --

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-02 AT 12:10 PM (EDT)

Sniper's water definately looks a lot better than the default water.Ed, my default water started out as transparent underneath and sometime while building Sea View 1, it changed to brown even though I had not changed anything about the water.Bill Burnett

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Here's a suggestion:Make a large, flat, square polygon in TSM, point the poly downwards, texture it as you like, and place it underwater. That way, you won't have to modify the underwater textures.Here's another idea:Texture the ground like the sea! Here's what I came up with after 5 mins. of experimenting...UNDERSEA.ace....Take care!Kurt

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Hi Kurt,Wow! How can I get a copy of your undersea.ace? Will begging help? I had thought about making what I call a panel in TSM. I used a small one with a water texture for Sea View 2 to make multiple water levels. If I can make a really big one, that might work great. I will experiment with that. Now all I need some fish (animated would be best), submarines, seaweed, etc. When is Ron Paludan going to do "Flat Fish 2"? Bill Burnett

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3dcafe.com has fish, seaweed, submarines, all kinds of stuff all you have to do is convert and texturize not sure how difficult that would be, i havent modeled anything yet

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You guys really gotta learn TGAtool2 and PSP, it's actually pretty easy and you can git the texture just the way you want it with a little fooling around. I just had a thought (yeah, I know, alert the media), who did the animated blimps? It strikes me that it wouldn't be that difficult to convert a flying blimp object into a flying fish object, and you could set it to fly around just a few feet above the terrain, and below the water. From the cab the illusion would probably work.

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Your right Jim, I need to learn Paint Shop. Actually, I need to buy it first. So far, I have been able to talk helpful people like you into doing things for me. Ron Spalding did the blimps. He was doing an animated porpoise for me but he became ill before he finished. I tried placing one of Ron's blimps in the water hopeing to make it look like a whale or submarine circling an island. It didn't look like either as you can see in this screen shot. If I can figure out how to repaint it, there are a lot of possibilities.Bill Burnett

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when blimps sink, tonight on Fox...

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No need to beg, pray to the Coconut God, or go to the Sky City Church...I have sent you a copy of "Undersea.ace!"Didn't I tell you guys I was the slowest editor in the South? It took a WHOLE 5 minutes to make that underwater texture! LOL!!!Take care!Kurt

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I don't know if it went through or not in email, Bill, mine has been iffy on getting things to people, but I was thinking about the tunnel and about one of Sniper's tutorials. I did this real quick because my back is killing me and I didn't want you to give up on the sea through tunnel idea.I made a wall 20 meters wide 10 meters high and 1 meter thick, I should have done less but didn't feel like playing with fractions. Anywho, I made it transparent in TSM and then did so to the tga file before converting it to an ace file. I just grabbed the first thing I found with anything about the sea on it, the color is err not quite you, but it does show that you can build a tunnel as Sniper did with bolders using other things, later will play some more with it, didn't take me any time at all.... Blimp into fish? hmmm
First is the view in tsm....
Now we have it on the track at SV



"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

--Albert Einstein

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——DarkestRose——

Careful... The DustBunny has thorns

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The problem I am wrestling with if I use transparent panels is all the various views when driving a train. That I why I lined a real tunnel with colored panels leading into the secret area, to force the cab view only.Seems like I going to have to go with a bottom like Kurt's (thanks Kurt) and a modified waterbot.ace or a large horizontal panel immediately under the water. But, I guess I still need some kind of tunnel. Driving under the water without a tunnel doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe it needs to be a huge tunnel so that even external views will still be inside the tunnel.Bill Burnett

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That underwater view sounds cool, but I agree with you on without a tunnel, the underwater tracks doesn't seem too realistic... lol. I already pushed my "realistic" envelope downloading SeaView2 lol. It would be pointless to have a underwater track (without suitable shielding from water). Hey! I sorta came up with an idea...Make a tunnel (big enough so that the full 360 degree view will not go outside the walls) with transparent walls (of course), give it a blueish tint to make it look more real outside, and that'll be fine. Unless that's what you've been saying the entire time.. lol------------------------------------------------------------I'll never let go of the railroad that inspired me to involved with trains, the Union Pacific!

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Hey! Why do you need a tunnel? Just use one of those special trains developed in The Vault. Five minutes before "immersion" the train crew makes an announcment:"Close all ports! Activate sealing mechanisms! Prepare for Immersion!"Like some of those "top-secret" amphibious landing craft.Gives the concept of "Sea View" a whole new dimension! I love it!Jeff

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Hi Jeff,Maybe I can get someone to design an amphibious train that looks like a submarine on wheels. Jeff, you know as much about MSTS water as anyone I know of. What is your suggestion for improving the appearance of being under water? It doesn't work for the bottom water layer to be transparent. The terrain underneath shows too much and looks unrealistic. Bill Burnett

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Bill,I think the stuff in the thread "Bill.....Fish...." is far and away the most useful on this subject that I've seen. Special note of that screenshot near the top, where you're above WaterBot and below WaterMid. That may very well be a solution. I haven't tried all those experiments that Sniper tried, so that's better data than I could supply. But the default depth of WaterBot is -1, Ron uses -1.8. I strongly suspect that could be moved down to -50 without too much affect on how the water looks from above. And I'm sure also that you could tweak WaterBot.ace a little bit so it doesn't look quite so much like sewage, and still not affect the above appearance.But, of course, WaterBot is a layer, not terrain, so it would be flat. That may not work nicely with the route concept. You say that the terrain underneath looks unrealistic. But can't textures be applied to it to vary the appearance? If you do that, be sure that the WaterBot layer depth is set below the elevation of that terrain.Course all that means custom water for this route, which, once again, won't work with Sky Conductor. I've (or we, the community) got to get a handle on a practical and distributable tool for various environmental modules. (Learning Java is tough!)Another note. The default water has three layers. Bottom one has to be opaque, or probably does, anyway. But there's nothing to prevent experimenting with more than three. It might be that adding more layers that are transparent (with the buggy BlendATexDiff shader) would get past the need to have an ugly bottom layer. Just a thought. More study required.Jeff

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Hey Jeff, one prob, the train would try to float instead of stay on the rails... therefore I have developed a new train wheel system! LOLYou'd have to do some work on the SeaView Expresses, but it should work! This would let the train follow the rail better!------------------------------------------------------------I'll never let go of the railroad that inspired me to involved with trains, the Union Pacific!

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-04-02 AT 07:30 PM (EDT)

There ya' go Bill. A submarine train. As was suggested, they've probably already built it over there in the "Vault". I know I saw some strange things a happenen' down there.
Oops! I'm not supposed to talk about that.
Oh No! Gotta move again.
&%(@ (that's my encrypted code name. Don't let anyone know you know me.) "Last night I heard an old freight whistle blow, as I was sleeping warmly in your bed. And it told me: "Boy, it's time that you were packing up to go", but I smiled and shook the leaving from my head."

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Sea View was never the prototypical route, but I think making a train with those type wheels and calling it good is too far to the left, unless someone did a model that had it water tight, I think Bill's submarine idea is much better or the use of panels to create areas that are wide and high enough to create a complete undersea community of sorts. The wheels are a good idea if someone can model a submarine style train.

And I think that might be out as well, unless you make it completely separate from SV2. You'd be using the same train from the beginning to the end. That ends up limiting what can be taken through the route. You'd have to make activities that can use the submarine as the train/consist. Tunnels or wide sections of undersea areas using panels seems to be the best solution. And track underwater at all would not last very long at all without some sort of protection.




"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

--Albert Einstein

—«–Œ


——DarkestRose——

Careful... The DustBunny has thorns

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-02 AT 06:56 PM (EDT)

Can't go "too far to the left" for me! I'm a "60's" guy, through and through.I'd think a good coat of valve grease should protect it pretty well.Jeff

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