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calr (443 posts)
May-24-02, 11:29 AM (EDT) "TSM questions, problems" I am using TSM to create the causeway sections I posted about a few days ago but I have run into some problems. First off, has anyone produced any kind of tutorial or manual that is better than the included documentation. The online help and the .pdf help document (identical) are practically useless!Initially I created the straight causeway section by creating a template and extruding it to the length of the section. When I did this, the three views (side,front,top) were ok, but the perspective view was totally out of proportion. The wireframe view in RE looks the same, impossible to use. To overcome this problem, I created a cube whose width was the same as the base of the sloped portion of the causeway and with the same length. I then constructed "roof" template on the front view and extruded it. Using this method, the perspective view and the view in RE are correct.This method will not work with the curved sections for several reasons. First off, creating a cube will not work. Second using a template and sweeping it has revealed a new set of problems. I tried to create a template displaced from the origin a distance equal to the radius of the curve. Since I can find no way to scroll the view, I had zoom out several times and use the coordinate display at the bottom of the screen to place the points for the template. This is difficult and not very accurate. Next, I used the sweep function to sweep 5 degrees with 10 points. I think the sweep worked but the results were not useable.TSM thinks the 500m displacement is part of the object so it includes it in the perspective view. Consequently, there is now way to move around in the perspective window and get a clear view of the object. This displacement is also exported to TS with the object so that when I try to place it, it show up 500 meters away from the crosshair cursor! If I center to object, it corrects the displacement in TS but doesn't change any of the views in TSM.With center to object in use, in RE I can only see part of the object. I can see the inside only for half of the object. If I try to adjust the surface normal, it only affects half the object.Bottom line, does anyone know 1) How to scroll the views in TSM, 2) How to create a curved object where the center of the curve is displaced outside the object, and 3) How to extrude a template without attaching it to a solid object?I know this has been long, but there is no way to simplify the description. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
I'm an excellent speler. I jus can't type worth a damn!
Columbia Gorge Route (15% done, The Dalles yard(started) and dam(researching) in progress) Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: TSM questions, problems CMStPP May-24-02 1 RE: TSM questions, problems calr May-24-02 2 RE: TSM questions, problems CMStPP May-24-02 3 RE: TSM questions, problems calr May-24-02 4 RE: TSM questions, problems--Just a... calr May-25-02 5 RE: TSM questions, problems--Just a... CMStPP May-25-02 6

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CMStPP (9 posts)
May-24-02, 01:49 PM (EDT) 1. "RE: TSM questions, problems"
>Bottom line, does anyone know 1)
>How to scroll the views
>in TSM,
In the orthogonal views, right-click and choose "center" from the popup menu. Doesn't work in perspective view as far as I can tell... 2) How to
>create a curved object where
>the center of the curve
>is displaced outside the object, Cal- I made a rectangular template off to the side and swept it, and you're right, the object axis is created at 0,0,0. But then
if you switch to object mode and go under the Part menu, there is "Center axis to: and I chose "object". Then move the object back to the center position in all of the orthogonal views. Then the perspective view will jump back closer and rotate around the new position of the object axis.>and 3) How to extrude
>a template without attaching it
>to a solid object? I don't get this question- the extruded template IS the solid object; the template still remains and can be deleted or moved or modified and swept or extruded again...I have noted problems with polygon normals after sweeping- for curved pieces, the normals are usually pointed inwards, so it looks really goofy in the perspective view... I'm using v1.1 by the way.cheers, hope that helps! Scott
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calr (443 posts)
May-24-02, 02:30 PM (EDT) 2. "RE: TSM questions, problems" Scott, Thanks for the info. With regards to #3, please reread the second paragraph of my original post. I can only get extruded templates to work properly if I create the template as an addition to another object in one of the ortho views and then extrude it.Another question for anyone who knows the answer. How do I make an object behave as a solid object in TS? When I add one of my straight causeway sections to my route and subsequently drive over it, I am able to move the #2 view camera below the surface and look up at the bottom of the train. It is an interesting view but I don't want that to happen. I installed the object as a terrain object.Thanks in advance.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
I'm an excellent speler. I jus can't type worth a damn!
Columbia Gorge Route (15% done, The Dalles yard(started) and dam(researching) in progress) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CMStPP (9 posts)
May-24-02, 02:49 PM (EDT) 3. "RE: TSM questions, problems" Cal, could you email or post your *.dst file? I'd like to take a look at it... The invisible-from-below causeway really sounds like the surface normal problem- When I did the TSM water tower tutorial, all normals were inner-facing, and in TS it always viewed as the inner surface of the far side, no matter how you moved around it. I see the same thing with standard track sections- if you go below them, the ballast dissappears.Tho you did say you checked the normals...Here's my sweep test-
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3cee8b120cd3cffd.zip -Scott Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
calr (443 posts)
May-24-02, 03:45 PM (EDT) 4. "RE: TSM questions, problems" On the straight causeway sections, all textures look fine from outside the object so I don't think it's a surface normal problem. It is a problem similar to a train driving through a building. I think I need to do something with bounding box, collision detection, or something like that. In RE at the bottom of the view screen, there is a message for camera collision detection. The "/" toggles this on and off. If it is on, the camera won't go below the terrain. If off, you can "mole" around undergroud to your heart's desire. Does this setting carry though to TS if left turned off? Maybe that is my problem.Note--All of this has nothing to do with curved section problems. I will try your suggestions on that tonight.Thanks.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
I'm an excellent speler. I jus can't type worth a damn!
Columbia Gorge Route (15% done, The Dalles yard(started) and dam(researching) in progress) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
calr (443 posts)
May-25-02, 01:43 AM (EDT) 5. "RE: TSM questions, problems--Just about got it!" Scott by following your suggestions on sweeping the template and then centering on object and centering the views, I finally got the shape. I had to create end polygons from the end points and then I had to reverse the surface normals on everything. The only obstacle I have now is tiling the texture. That is just going to take some experimenting. I thought I could use the same tiling factors I used on the straight sections but it appears that won't work here or...I got the numbers wrong! Thanks for your help.I still need to solve the hollow object problem (camera can drop below suface).
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
I'm an excellent speler. I jus can't type worth a damn!
Columbia Gorge Route (15% done, The Dalles yard(started) and dam(researching) in progress) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CMStPP (9 posts)
May-25-02, 02:42 PM (EDT) 6. "RE: TSM questions, problems--Just about got it!" Cal, I tried playing with that one last night, I think I understand now how it happens- the camera is only stopped by terrain or water surface, not by objects. The only thing I could do was to shift into the terrain lifting and try to bring terrain points up from the lake bed, right up to the bottom of the track...
Alternatively, if you do the "Y" key to fit terrain to the track over your causeway, you can then go to terrain edit and push the edges of the cut back down under the water. If your track is centered between two terrain vertices, I'm not sure if your causeway would be wide enough to cover the terrain, but you can get a pretty steep slope if you push your lake bed even deeper.I didn't get a screen shot, so I'll try to diagram: _____I-track-I_______
/ /-terrain-\ \ <---causeway
_____/ / \ \____________waterlevel
/____/ \______\
/ \
/ \
______/ \_____lakebed
cheers- scott Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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