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"abs and ctc signals"

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gblandford (88 posts)
May-15-02, 06:09 PM (EDT) "abs and ctc signals" Hiwhat are the difference between the two typesGuy( Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor is the future) Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: abs and ctc signals ace6879 May-15-02 1 RE: abs and ctc signals landnrailroader May-15-02 2 RE: abs and ctc signals Mark_Blum May-15-02 3 RE: abs and ctc signals ace6879 May-16-02 4 RE: abs and ctc signals gblandford May-17-02 5

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ace6879 (936 posts)
May-15-02, 06:22 PM (EDT) 1. "RE: abs and ctc signals" Howdy, Simply put, ABS (Automatic Block Signals) change by a system of relays and currents in the track itself "automatically" as the train travels from block (signal location)to block And CTC (Centralized Traffic Control) has a dispatcher or control operator setting the signals and switches from a remote location, by using either toggle switches on a track diagram panel with indicator lights,or a "interlocking machine" with levers, or in more recent times, by computer. Case in point: BNSF CTC is controlled from Ft. Worth, Texas, and UP is from Omaha, Nebraska. In fact, all of the dispatching is from there on both lines. Hope this helps!!Kelley D. Ellison
CSX-A Line Chief Lighting Engineer
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NALW Lighting Engineer
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landnrailroader (251 posts)
May-15-02, 06:43 PM (EDT) 2. "RE: abs and ctc signals" I will attempt to address this issue a little further. Being retired from the Signal Dept. of CSX should qualify me, but since my job was to manage the CAD system, I don't have a clue about signal design.As stated, ABS simply means Automatic Block System, and it used to be that the signals were controlled by a system of relays which detected the presence of a train in the block, and electric currents were transmitted through lineside wires. Sometimes those lineside wires were a veritable forest, not counting the kudzu that like to grow on them.Also as stated, CTC allows a dispatcher at a central location to control the signals and the switches - well that needs qualification, read on. Like was said, there is essentially no limit to where the dispatcher can be physically located relative to what he is dispatching, thanks to computers. CSX has all of their eggs in two baskets, except for Conrail, and both baskets are in Jacksonville, FL. Conrail dispatchers were starting to move south last year, and by now, it may be complete. I retired last year, but still have some contact with my old boss etc.Now the nitty-gritty. Line side wires are a pain in the A--- to maintain, very costly, and so about 10 years ago, there appeared on the scene, various electronic methods of eliminating the line side wires and transmitting the signal "currents" as a code, through the running rails. These signals are "overlaid" on the rails so that they are not affected by the other "signals" that operate motion detectors at crossings etc. 5 or so years ago, it was deemed that these electronic devices were reliable enough to use "en masse", and as a result, CSX has been rapidly eliminating the line side wires. The B&O position lights signals are being retired in wholesale lots, but the reason is not that there is anything wrong with them, per se, but that they do not use standard signal logic, and so as the electronics are installed, standard type-D colorlight (3 in a row, vertical) are replacing them. Other railroads are doing it too, but on a recent trip out west, there did not seem to be much hurry on the old AT&SF line across New Mexico. Why? Most likely because there is not much vegetation to worry about, and the very dry atmosphere prevents significant decay. Rattlesnakes are another matter. Electro Code (brand name) is a popular brand, and there are others.CTC - The dispatcher controls the signals, well yes and no, and the switches, yes. He actually controls on the signals that are at the control points, i.e. ends of sidings, interlockings, etc. The so-called intermediate signals, between control points, behave like ABS signals, and frequently are just ABS signals, the exception being the distant signal for a control point, which provides a warning indication for the home signal, it is associated with.Then it gets complicated. No signals means no trains can run faster than 49mph - used to be an iron-clad, no discussion rule. However, in certain circumstances, it can be waived. For example on the "dark" P&A sub., CSX, from Flomaton, AL to Chattahoochee, FL, the Sunset Ltd. is allowed to run 60mph, but all others are restricted to 49. This is because Self-restoring switches with local signals have been installed at a few very long sidings where it is likely the Sunset will meet/pass either it's opposing train, or a freight - mostly stack trains. In these instances, the train taking siding, will stop, and the front end person will throw the switch. Then, as the train trails in over the switch, it will remain "thrown", but a timer will start as soon as the last car passes over it, and after a preset time, the switch automatically returns to the "normal" position.For any westerners that read this, Kudzu is a legendary vine in the South that was imported from someplace (that probably wanted to be rid of it) around 100 years ago as cattle feed. Problem is, cattle don't like it, snakes do (i.e. to live in it), and when someone was once asked how to plant it, he was told "DROP IT AND RUN". I have seen two plants grow up adjacent line poles, extend out on the wire spans until they met halfway between, and then a huge tangled ball would result - I assume because they don't like each other.J. H. Sullivan, P.E. (retired from CSX and proud of it) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Mark_Blum (121 posts)
May-15-02, 11:05 PM (EDT) 3. "RE: abs and ctc signals" JP:I gotta tell you that's the best SIMPLE tutorial on signaling, and Kudzu I've seen. I used to hack at it all the time in Georgia, when I lived along the CSX mainline in Marietta.Just don't hold it against me that I became a fan of black and gold long hood forward Geeps, and green E8's Mark
A Southern Railway Fan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ace6879 (936 posts)
May-16-02, 02:36 AM (EDT) 4. "RE: abs and ctc signals" Hi J.H., You know, It has been so long now, I FORGOT about the one thing I enjoyed most on rail lines...The poles!!! Yep, the lines use to carry the signal!!! IC re-did theirs in 2000 here (Iowa div.), so the pole line is finally going now. IMRL still uses theirs, but all others are gone. BNSF has some in places, as does the ex-CNW, but they are either going, or going to go. One thing someone told me about kudzu was to get it planted, pour out a bucket of water as well!!! Thanks for the aditional info!!Kelley D. Ellison
CSX-A Line Chief Lighting Engineer
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NALW Lighting Engineer
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gblandford (88 posts)
May-17-02, 05:15 PM (EDT) 5. "RE: abs and ctc signals" HiDo anyone know where I could download these two types of signals
pleaseGuy( Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor is the future) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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